I just want to say something. The golden retriever breed was made from a mix, right? and then they did it again, and bred the offspring to eachother, and did that for generations ( correct me if I'm wrong, as I read this in a book so I'm not 100% sure), I think if someone is serious about creating a new breed, and he/she is not in it for the money, they do all the health checks, hips, eyes, ect. then why should we be so against it? I'm not saying everyone is against it, but when someone talks about a doodle, I see alot of people shooting it down.
just my opinion.....yours?

 

I do wonder if, 120 years ago, there was a Tweed Water Spaniel Discussion Forum, we wouldn't have seen its members looking down their noses at "these designer golden retrievers" and complaining about their greedy breeders.

 

I found a thread posted by Tom the other day quite intriguing. He mentioned Lurchers, which I read is not a breed of dog, but a type of dog??? I have found most Doodles I've met to be great dogs.

 

Lurchers are the result of a sighthound w/ a non-sighthound, usually a herding breed or terrier. There's also Longdogs, which is a mixed breed of two different types of sighthound.

 

I think that if it were done the way you suggest, it would be fine. It's the ones who are charging outrageous prices and marketing puppies as something they're not that get the fur flying here.

I saw a Wheaten Terrier yesterday at dog park, full of energy, just adorable - she hit the park on a run and didn't slow down the entire time. I actually thought she was a labradoodle, so I asked the owner what kind of dog it was. She kindly told me Wheaten terrier and we got talking and she said the dog doesn't shed, has a lot of energy, has a sweet temperament, etc. I asked, cuz I'm nosy, how much she paid, and she said around $700.
Well, it sounded to me like she was describing a goldendoodle! So I said to her, "why would anyone pay close to $2000 for a mutt, when they could get a beautiful purebred like Riley, with the same characteristics that are so hyped, and know what they're getting, rather than the crap shoot that's a doodle?"
She agreed.

 

and we had a lab cross when I was growing up that was an awesome dog as well! But guess what folks he was a mutt and purchased for free ....my beef is the $ they are making off these designer breeds and the hype that people fall for....whatever floats your boat!

 

Aw, you're just looking to get lots of points for a really long thread, aren't you?

 

Hahaha

Allen, you get no flames from me. I would love to have a Koda dog but I do think he's one in a million. Well, hopefully there's not a million golden doodles, but you know what I mean. I want one just like him, he makes my heart smile

 

I believe it's in Australia that there is a very reputable "Labradoodle" breeding program like the person you met was talking about. They are people dedicated to developing a new breed and have generations of labradoodles. They are developing a standard and breeding to create dogs that consistently meet that standard.

It's the mutts that are being bred here and marketed as "hypoallergenic, non-shedding, don't have the health problems of either breed, etc.", and sold for outrageously high prices, that we object to.

 

And I object to that too. My only thing is that I see pictures of Koda and I can't help but wonder what the possibilities are.

 

I've evil I know, but I like Doodles, the big problem is breeding. So many are bred from lines that should NOT be bred either due to poor health or temperament. A true Poodle, Golden or Lab breeder would never allow quality breeding stock to be cross bred to create a designer dog. The only way you are going to get a healthy Doodle is if a pet owner is naughty and breeds their dog, and even then, where are the health clearances? A pet quality dog no matter how nice probably shouldn't be bred either.

 

all breeds are designer breeds - dog breeds, by definition, are artificial constructs created to please humans, either by their temperament, conformation, special abilities or what not.

Some dog breeds are better put together than others (goldens rule, of course ), but all are "designed" to meet some expectations. Many dog breeds have horrid health problems because humans put fashion before health.

When domestic dogs go feral and are free to interbreed, the mixing of genes probably eventually produces a creature more or less resembling a dingo.

 

I'm a lot less disturbed by long-term breeding programs that seek to create a new breed than I am by expensive first generation crosses of Poodles and other dogs. But even if they get it to breed true, I don't see what niche the Australian Labradoodle is trying to fill, since the Poodle and the Wheaten seem to already have the desirable qualities that "doodles" are trying to achieve. I also am not a big fan of the dog described in the Australian Labradoodle breed standard.

And there is no responsible program I know of that's mixing Goldens and Poodles.

 

I also am not a big fan of the dog described in the Australian Labradoodle breed standard.

What don't you like?

When domestic dogs go feral and are free to interbreed, the mixing of genes probably eventually produces a creature more or less resembling a dingo.

What they look like is my old dog Alison.

I was half-watching some PBS show about dogs, and they said "when dogs are allowed to breed freely, the result will be a medium size dog, with short hair, a curly tail, half floppy ears, usually brown or black in color." They showed a picture of a golden brown dog that was such a dead ringer for our Alison, that they could have been littermates.
"...such as these street dogs found in Cambodia."

As an aside, as Tessie gets older I find myself more and more calling her Alison. Do you ever do this?

 

I think there are some doodle breeders that put work into a breeding program designed to produce puppies with known traits. Reading some websites you can see that they are really working on a consistant coat.

And then there are some that cross a poodle with a lab and call it a doodle and sell it.

 

I really don't come down one side or the other, I think doodles are cute dogs. I had one growing up and she was the sweetest dog. She was a cross between a cocker, collie, and a miniature poodle, about 25 lbs of black fluff and kisses. She could not take heart worm meds, at that time, the late 70's, any mix with Collie could not take the medicine...she contracted heart worm and did not make it through the treatment.

 

I think that different colors shouldn't be taken into type, I don't see why color is such and issue.

How many are there for dachshund and jack russells?

 

This should be the standar, i just love this dog, i want to have one of this

 

This should be the standar, i just love this dog, i want to have one of this

View attachment 54447

What kind of dog is this? He's very attractive! Except for his color, he reminds me of Koda.

 

WOW!!!! That's all I can say. I had NO idea there were/are such STRONG opinions on the Labradoodle (or any doodle).

Shaggy, our Australian Labradoodle, is part of the program that began in Australia. He is a Multigen Australian Labradoodle (his baby pic is in my profile).

My good friend has six children, all with Autism. After seeing many doctors from around the USA, it was suggested to her by one Specialist, to begin dog therapy for her children. He suggested the Labradoodle because they have proven to be very successful in helping children with special needs. She had such success with her kids and the Labradoodles, she got one for each child. They have come such a long way since caring for their own doodle. She then decided to start breeding them for other kids with special needs. Depending on the family, she eithor gives the puppy to the family or will charge as much as $2,000.00 (which goes back into her breeding program and her foundation for AUtism). She wanted us to have one of her puppies and the fact that my son fell in love with one special doodle, well, needless to say he is now a beloved part of our family.
Shaggy is proving to be something else. I won't go into the details (I don't feel the need to brag about my little doodle, however; I do see why they have such success in the therapy programs.
I spend much of my time volunteering in various Animal Shelters. To date, I have found great homes for over 400 wonderful dogs and cats. I have come across some of the most intelligent, friendly, beautiful animals in these shelters. Many of which would make for excellent therapy dogs/cats.
I used to laugh at the thought of any kind of doodle (or designer mutt for that matter). And never in a million years would I have thought we would have one. However, circumstances prevailed and Shaggy could not have come into our lives at a better time. I never thought I would have any other kind of dog, other then a GR. I didn't think there could possibly be a sweeter breed of dog, though our doodlebug is proving me wrong. The sweetness of the Lab and the intelligence of the Poodle is an amazing cross. There are a lot of terrible breeders out there (of any breed of dog), however; there are many good ones doing good things. Don't get me wrong, if you can save a shelter animal or get one from rescue, that's the best! Having said that, circumstances often dictate otherwise.
Karen

 

I have more Doodles that come in my shop that I can even count. They all have a different looks, different sizes, (out of the same litter sometimes), and their activity level, on all but one, have been off the hook.

The one that stands out is a Goldendoodle that came in the other day. He was small, maybe 35-40 lbs., absolutely beautiful, nice coat and not at all hyper. He was 10 months old and just a love. He came from a breeder with an established line. She had generations of Goldendoodles that she bred. You could definitely tell the difference. I saw pictures of the litter he came from and all the pups were uniform. It was like night and day between this pup and all the others that come in my store.

I just hope that if someone wants a Doodle, that they support the breeders that are truly trying to establish a breed. The odds are not there yet, judging from all the dogs I've met, but there are a few. Unfortunately, the people in it for the $$$ are definitely the majority.

 

and the selfsame qualities that make them an extraordinary gentleman's hunting dog make them extraordinary companions for an active life.

Okay, that's it. Active life? Tessie has been lying on the kitchen floor like a throw rug for the past five hours, so I'm just going to have to take her back. I think I've still got the receipt in my wallet.

 

Well, like I said, even if a pup is outside the breed standard a bit, you can still love her. It doesn't mean the standard isn't important.

And my guys laze about too. That's what makes them the gentleman's hunting companion. They can turn it off when they're indoors, and then turn it back on when it's time for a romp in the outdoors.

 

Whippet standard: "Color immaterial"

That said, I dislike doodles, but only because I think they are ugly. I could say the same about a large percentage of AKC breeds, too- I really only find sighthounds, a few herding breeds, some Northern breeds, and the retrievers and setters particularly attractive. That's why we say "to each his own"

 

I had one of those 100+lbs Goldens. Sam was the runt of his litter and became the largest as an adult. Both of his parents were within the Breed standard with reputable lines on both sides. My friend owned both parent dogs and chose to have 1 litter only. I guess they would be considered BYB's. Sam was not overweight for his frame, he was very tall. I wonder what I contributed to his overall size by neutering him at a young age and feeding him puppy food until 1 year old? I've read both of these can cause a dog to grow a larger frame. Sam lived 12.5 years and was healthy until his last year when he developed arthritus. At the very end, M.E. caused aspiration pneumonia and xrays revealed he also had a tumor near his heart. I've also learned that early neutering is thought to contribute to canine cancer in males...I may have caused Sam's size and demise...not his Breeder.

 

I've also learned that early neutering is thought to contribute to canine cancer in males...I may have caused Sam's size and demise...not his Breeder.

Hey Paula, cut yourself some slack. The oft-cited osteosarcoma study compared dogs neutered before one year to dogs who were never neutered. It's not helpful for deciding when to neuter. There's no clear evidence yet that neutering at six months offers statistically significant risk over neutering at eighteen months. It may turn out to be the case, but it's hardly conclusive even now. The numbers are still very reliable that overall, neutered dogs live for longer.

And neutering's effect on growth is pretty small. It may be enough for an expert in conformation to notice, but it's not enough to cause a dramatic change in size (i.e., a dog's being 30% or more over standard).

And large breed puppy food is meant to slow a dog's growth since it has fewer calories and less fat and protein. Eukanuba large breed puppy is 362 cal/cup and the premium performance we feed our grown dogs is higher at 432 cal/cup. My guys have always been on the large breed puppy for their first year. One was below standard as an adult and the other is smack in the middle. The third is still growing, but I doubt he'll even hit the middle of the standard. I can't imagine you caused a dog to grow oversized with large breed puppy food.

Really, you did well by your pup. If you let him get too heavy, that's not ideal, but it's hardly something to beat yourself up about. And the rest is up to genes. Sometimes two dogs inside the standard produce a dog who is outside of it.

 

Sometimes a dog is just a dog

Coco Chanel, one of Abby and Finn's best friends. Who am I to say?

 

Coco Chanel, one of Abby and Finn's best friends. Who am I to say?

I don't think it's at all inconsistent to love individual dogs for who they are and still advocate against the majority of those who mix Poodles and other breeds.

I've mentioned my friend's Poodle/Lab mix a bunch of times in the "doodle" threads as an example of why you shouldn't cross breeds willy nilly (bad heart, anxious temperament, heavy shedding), but I love that dog dearly.

I'd love any Golden bought at a pet store, but I still think buying one there is a bad idea too.

So here's to Coco and Koda and all the other sweet mixes that show up on the forum. I might have something to say about their breeders, but I certainly don't look down on them or their owners because they're not purebreds.

 

He's wonderful! He's got the Koda face :heartbeat