[Megora]

Edit: I have no idea why it keeps flagging this first photo. It is Adler (five) and Logan sitting on a couch. Lol

Always so awkward when GRF does that to random pictures.... 🤣

 

[diane0905]

Always so awkward when GRF does that to random pictures.... 🤣

I bet some are scared to click on it.

Facebook gave me a timeout once for posting nudity. It was Logan’s AKC Novice Tricks video submission. He was about four months old or so. 😂 I guess the filters translated the golden color hopping around as something much more happening. lolol

 

[Hildae]

The smartest breeds list may rank them #53, and I'm not qualified to object, but the two I've owned were smart enough to get away with murder. They are hard to train. I don't think all Setters are, but the two Irish Setters I had were. I'm in the same boat with you, I'd definitely own one again. They will always hold a place in my heart. If I couldn't find a well bred golden I'd be the first one in line. I'd also know what I was in for. My husband would probably faint when I walked in with one.

I didn't find the grooming difficult at all. I also had field bred Irish Setters, not conformation, but I'm not sure how big of a difference there is in the breed. It may be something I check out.

I think sometimes those rankings translate "stubborn and free thinking" into "dumb."

If I couldn't have a golden, setters of all varieties would be high on my list for sure.

This article about Irish setters makes me think of goldens at times and being a "victim of their own beauty." The Irish Setter: A Victim of Its Own Beauty - Sporting Classics Daily

 

[Megora]

I think sometimes those rankings translate "stubborn and free thinking" into "dumb."

I also wonder who is doing the rankings and how...

I do not see very many setters in obedience around here.... no english setters, and the odd 1-2 irish setter people + a handful of gordon setter people. Unlike goldens where majority of dogs are field/performance bred, the dogs are all show bred. The dogs I know of are either OTCH dogs or competing at that level usually though there's one gordon breeder trainer who will take on dogs from her breeding program to get quick hurry up CD's on them so the dogs can have that versatility title. She basically will take in dogs for a month and get all the training in and get the CD's very quickly. She has also put JHs on them in the same fashion.

I've asked the owners why there aren't more setters in obedience and generally they can't answer other than saying the dogs are not for everyone. Whatever that means.

 

[Hildae]

I've asked the owners why there aren't more setters in obedience and generally they can't answer other than saying the dogs are not for everyone. Whatever that means.

I know what she means

 

[michaeldwilson]

The smartest breeds list may rank them #53, and I'm not qualified to object, but the two I've owned were smart enough to get away with murder. They are hard to train. I don't think all Setters are, but the two Irish Setters I had were. I'm in the same boat with you, I'd definitely own one again. They will always hold a place in my heart. If I couldn't find a well bred golden I'd be the first one in line. I'd also know what I was in for. My husband would probably faint when I walked in with one.

I didn't find the grooming difficult at all. I also had field bred Irish Setters, not conformation, but I'm not sure how big of a difference there is in the breed. It may be something I check out.

Here's a picture of the kind of field setters we have. We didn't train ours to hunt but that's mostly why they are bred.

This is from someone on the red setter FB page:

Here is a picture of ours.

 

[Megora]

I know what she means

But you could say that about any breed. Goldens especially. LOL.

We have so many people looking into goldens who if you did a write up of what type of person that they are in reality, you would see them better suited to own one of those breeds that if you see them being shown - the handlers just speed walk with a very delicate and dainty hold on the leash, there's no running or muscle needed.

Goldens.... OMG. The one time I saw a young golden who was so completely quiet and extremely well behaved at 5 months, I literally wondered if the dog had a serious health problem. LOL.

 

[Elisha46]

Here's a picture of the kind of field setters we have. We didn't train ours to hunt but that's mostly why they are bred.

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GORGEOUS

 

[Hildae]

But you could say that about any breed. Goldens especially. LOL.

We have so many people looking into goldens who if you did a write up of what type of person that they are in reality, you would see them better suited to own one of those breeds that if you see them being shown - the handlers just speed walk with a very delicate and dainty hold on the leash, there's no running or muscle needed.

Goldens.... OMG. The one time I saw a young golden who was so completely quiet and extremely well behaved at 5 months, I literally wondered if the dog had a serious health problem. LOL.

Goldens in general are a breed that is pretty well suited to a broad range of people, especially given the breed split. They are beautifully versatile. But some breeds aren't like that though and they have a narrow range of "appropriateness" for ownership. I would say my old Ridgeback fell into that category, they truly aren't a "for just about everyone" dog. Some breeds are like that, perhaps they don't possess the biddability, or affability that most people need in a dog, some are exceptionally stubborn or possess in born guarding behaviors etc.

 

[Elisha46]

From first hand experience Setters are harder to train. They are high energy and need to run. They are fast. They are also super smart, which can get them into trouble. One I had could open any door knob, any type of handle. The only way to keep him in the house was to lock the deadbolt, or the cheap old little hook latches at the top of any door without a deadbolt. He could escape any kennel. We installed an invisible fence for him specifically and he would lay at the exact spot in the yard that the alarm went off until the battery died and then run out of the yard without being shocked. (SMART) He eventually became willing to take off and run through the invisible fence, and run back in the yard when he wanted to come back. I unplugged the invisible fence and never installed a new one. This has been a solid 25 years ago. This dog and I went to obedience class with a very successful Pro trainer in a group setting. When it was our time, final night of class, for a sit stay I unhooked his leash... said sit... turned to walk away and we (the entire class) caught him 20 minutes later. He's the only dog I've ever had to repeat basic obedience with. All of that being said I loved him dearly. My children loved him. He lived to be 16 and from age 8 on was the perfect dog. He always needed to be underfoot. We live on a farm and he always had plenty of room to run. He never swam, not a day, couldn't be convinced to go further in then his toes. He was super cuddly and loved his family.

I remember going to pick up my setter and thinking the people had a prison fence around their house. I just thought it was odd. I later realized it was probably for their sanity if they bred this line of setters.

Goldens are easier to train in my experience. I also believe goldens are mouthier as puppies. Goldens are just as smart, but less likely to use it to cause mischief. In my experience goldens have more health issues, but that really depends on each dog. I've never had a golden that didn't swim. I've never had a golden fail obedience class. I've had some much better and easier to teach then others, but never had one fail. I've also never looked into another type of dogs eyes and thought they saw my soul. Cruz looks at me and I know he knows my deepest thoughts. Cruz is my conformation, but versatile love bug.

I have never titled an Irish Setter in an event. I have a senior hunt titled golden with a CGC, and a dock senior title that has health issues. I have a Junior Hunt titled golden that needs one more leg for his Senior Hunt title. He has a Rally Novice title and one leg toward his intermediate. He has his WC, CGC, CCA, something else I can't remember. He has a triathlon award. He has placed in conformation events, but not won. He'd be way further in Rally, but I decided if I want his versatility title I need to get his CD in obedience. I have a 10 month old heavily field bred golden that may be running Junior Hunt soon, or we may just go straight to Senior Hunt. These are just the goldens I currently have and the oldest is 4. I'm not saying any of this to brag, but to show you the level of training and dedication I give to my dogs. Now take that and remember I failed a basic obedience class with a Setter. (basic obedience)

I would definitely own an Irish Setter again. I love them! I'm known to love a challenge. I also really love well bred golden retriever and can't imagine a day without one.

If you have three young kids please know what you are signing up for. You will have 4-6 months of bite marks on your hands and arms. Your socks will have holes, and you ankles will get bit. Your kids toys will get destroyed. Your rugs may get nibbled on and you will spend more time outside in the cold then you want to. It will all be worth it, and it may not be as bad as I've said above, but be prepared for it. We get way too many threads on here from people that think their beautiful puppy is being aggressive. It's not, it's just being a mouthy little fluff ball with no boundaries yet.

Thank you so much for sharing! Your setter sounds like he was a handful but also amazing, I had a Dalmatian growing up that was the most loving caring dog but he was very much high maintenance at the same time. He did not like being alone, ever, even for a quick store run. Very smart and could be very mischievous, which drove my parents mad but as a kid, I adored him 😂

 

[Megora]

Goldens in general are a breed that is pretty well suited to a broad range of people, especially given the breed split. They are beautifully versatile. But some breeds aren't like that though and they have a narrow range of "appropriateness" for ownership. I would say my old Ridgeback fell into that category, they truly aren't a "for just about everyone" dog. Some breeds are like that, perhaps they don't possess the biddability, or affability that most people need in a dog, some are exceptionally stubborn or possess in born guarding behaviors etc.

Eh.... breed split has nothing at all to do with it.

There's people who should really focus on itty bitty dogs thinking about getting the same attributes in a golden retriever. And they are completely miserable or they make the dogs miserable with all the control devices they strap on the dogs.

Seriously - so many legit dog breeds. Some people need to do a little research.

 

[Hildae]

Eh.... breed split has nothing at all to do with it.

There's people who should really focus on itty bitty dogs thinking about getting the same attributes in a golden retriever. And they are completely miserable or they make the dogs miserable with all the control devices they strap on the dogs.

Seriously - so many legit dog breeds. Some people need to do a little research.

It has a lot to do with it. Hunters wouldn't choose goldens if there were only conformationally bred goldens available, show folks would be unlikely to choose a golden if they were all field line dogs with the shorter coats, smaller bodies etc. The breed split is most definitely one of the reasons why goldens are so universally liked, because "there's something for almost everyone" in goldens. People like you can show them, people like me can hunt them. They can do service work, SAR, therapy work, tracking, etc. Not all breeds have that wide of a versatility base. Goldens are pretty awesome that way.

I do agree with you though that some people choose the wrong dog, because they want a "look" more than than they want a dog that really fits into their lives. (A victim of their own beauty as I mentioned)

 

[Elisha46]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your stories and opinions! I really appreciate it. I’m learning and researching. This is a very big decision for our family and I want to make sure I’m making educated decisions.

I do have a question regarding golden retrievers and their coat coloring. If anyone with knowledge of the breed knows, do some breeders only breed the darker red coat versus the lighter Goldens. I think the darker coats are beautiful and I would prefer, is that something certain breeders focus on? Are they harder to find? Any suggestions for breeders in the Northern California area?

Again, cost and waiting to find the right pup is not an issue. I want to make sure we get a pup with the right temperament regardless of coat color.

 

[Tagrenine]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your stories and opinions! I really appreciate it. I’m learning and researching. This is a very big decision for our family and I want to make sure I’m making educated decisions.

I do have a question regarding golden retrievers and their coat coloring. If anyone with knowledge of the breed knows, do some breeders only breed the darker red coat versus the lighter Goldens. I think the darker coats are beautiful and I would prefer, is that something certain breeders focus on? Are they harder to find? Any suggestions for breeders in the Northern California area?

Again, cost and waiting to find the right pup is not an issue. I want to make sure we get a pup with the right temperament regardless of coat color.

Nobody will focus on it but there are breeders that have darker coats more often than others

 

[Hildae]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your stories and opinions! I really appreciate it. I’m learning and researching. This is a very big decision for our family and I want to make sure I’m making educated decisions.

I do have a question regarding golden retrievers and their coat coloring. If anyone with knowledge of the breed knows, do some breeders only breed the darker red coat versus the lighter Goldens. I think the darker coats are beautiful and I would prefer, is that something certain breeders focus on? Are they harder to find? Any suggestions for breeders in the Northern California area?

Again, cost and waiting to find the right pup is not an issue. I want to make sure we get a pup with the right temperament regardless of coat color.

Darker dogs are "usually" hunting lines. They will be (generally) much higher drive, and require a job. They are not harder to find per se. If it's just color you're interested in I don't necessarily recommend a field line dog unless you're quite active. You can find conformationally bred goldens in darker shades of gold too, its just not quite as common as field lines.

 

[Megora]

It has a lot to do with it. Hunters wouldn't choose goldens if there were only conformationally bred goldens available, show folks would be unlikely to choose a golden if they were all field line dogs with the shorter coats, smaller bodies etc. The breed split is most definitely one of the reasons why goldens are so universally liked, because "there's something for almost everyone" in goldens. People like you can show them, people like me can hunt them. They can do service work, SAR, therapy work, tracking, etc. Not all breeds have that wide of a versatility base. Goldens are pretty awesome that way.

I do agree with you though that some people choose the wrong dog, because they want a "look" more than than they want a dog that really fits into their lives.

People like me can show my dogs + do anything I want with my dogs. Have shown decently enough with my dogs, done obedience, dabbled in tracking, agility, and even field. Dabbling means doing the training for fun but not bothering to compete. Tracking especially - I really loved doing with my dogs and would do serious if trials were on Saturdays instead of Sundays. <= Because this is a fantastic breed that can do everything, no splits needed.

But what I was really saying is on this forum so many people (pet people) come looking for golden retrievers and describe the type of homes they are. And many times they are a poor fit for a sporting breed. And many forget that golden retrievers, even show lines, are sporting breed dogs.

I do have a question regarding golden retrievers and their coat coloring. If anyone with knowledge of the breed knows do some breeders only breed the darker red coat versus the lighter Goldens. I think the darker coats are beautiful and I would prefer, is that something certain breeders focus on? Are they harder to find? Any suggestions for breeders in tbe Northern California area?

Look into breeders in Washington and beyond that, see breeders in western Canada.

 

[Hildae]

People like me can show my dogs + do anything I want with my dogs. Have shown decently enough with my dogs, done obedience, dabbled in tracking, agility, and even field. Dabbling means doing the training for fun but not bothering to compete. Tracking especially - I really loved doing with my dogs and would do serious if trials were on Saturdays instead of Sundays.

Ok

 

[rebnewsom]

My husband and I have been wanting to get a pup for our family for some time now. We’ve always loved golden retrievers but then we found a mix breed of golden retriever/Irish setter. I’m learning that AKC does not recognize this breed, and it doesn’t seem that there are many breeders anywhere in the US. So is this a problematic mix? How do I find a breeder with health clearances. I’ve seen websites but they clearly seem like puppy mills and I have no interest supporting those. We have no intention of showing or breeding. We just want a healthy happy family pup. Any information, or recommendations of breeders would be amazing. Thank you!!

The beauty of established breeds is the general predictability in well bred dogs. Designer dogs are problematic in that the basic rule of breeding seems to have been ignored - that is that form follows function. Breeds were created for specific roles and characteristics, and took untold generations to achieve. Creating a new breed takes generation upon generation upon generation of breeding for specific attributes. This requires significant knowledge in lines, and genetics.

 

[svhr67]

You’re welcome. I have three grandchildren who live two blocks away. Logan is so great with them. They are almost 10, seven, and five years old. Photo evidence:

(Best wishes for your decision, BTW! I’m sure either would be lovely. Goldens are wonderful with children.)

Edit: I have no idea why it keeps flagging this first photo. It is Adler (five) and Logan sitting on a couch. Lol

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He was helping them play ten minutes of mouse here — we were paying them to be quiet. Lolol

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What a beautiful dog! (Cute kids, too!

 

[DblTrblGolden2]

Since you made me take a trip down memory lane here are two photos of our last Irish Setter. He grew up with our boys.