[Megora]

So.... we have neighbors who have always had Irish setters.... and little fuzzy white dogs (never bothered to ask what the white dogs were). Invisible fencing. Walking my dogs past their property for ten million years that we've all lived here (LOL) - the setters would bark a couple times and circle back to the house, the little white dogs would yap for as long as they could see you.

No idea what training these dogs got, but they NEVER ran the neighborhood. The owners were definitely experienced and responsible dog owners.

Close former neighbors of these people had English Setters which are supposed to be more laidback than their Irish and Scottish cousins - and those dogs would definitely run the property to bark. Owner was big show person who had 5-6 dogs. She'd walk them all at the same time (on slip leads), which should give you an idea.

Worth pointing out that the above dogs that I knew of were show lines/show dogs. Field lines are going to be completely different. I have other neighbors with field line English setters and other than being 1/2 the size and plain, these dogs will run every chance they get and have ended up at animal control many times.

Btw - just to complete the set. Gordon Setters are primarily owner handled dogs that I've seen at shows. Where I've done drop in classes, there's several generations of a family that comes to train their dogs - including a 6 year old kid who handles better than most adults.

My personal take is if you are looking for a breed that's sweet tempered, easy to control/train, etc.... you can't go wrong picking a setter or a golden.... but goldens will pull your arm out of socket if you don't put the training in + setters DO need grooming.

The show setters (english, irish, gordon) that I've met in person are owned by very experienced people who groom their dogs themselves. That's clipping around the heads and necks + major grooming to prevent snags and mats. With goldens you have a breed that should never ever have clippers used on them and technically have easy care coats. Show bred goldens in full coat should not mat or tangle if not groomed more frequently than every 2-3 weeks. Spay/neuter any dog and all breed standards and "shoulds" go right out the window. And you should consider that the more coat a breed has, the longer the coat, the fuzzier the coat is naturally - the more work/upkeep you need to plan on.

One of those people at class with the gordons - I asked her how much she needs to comb the coats to prevent snags/mats. I did this after going over her dog and noticing the silky feel of the coat. Soft and silky on a golden is bad and means snags in an instant. The woman gave me one of those "It kills me" looks and said she's always combing the dogs.

 

[Megora]

Edit: I have no idea why it keeps flagging this first photo. It is Adler (five) and Logan sitting on a couch. Lol

Always so awkward when GRF does that to random pictures.... 🤣

 

[Megora]

I think sometimes those rankings translate "stubborn and free thinking" into "dumb."

I also wonder who is doing the rankings and how...

I do not see very many setters in obedience around here.... no english setters, and the odd 1-2 irish setter people + a handful of gordon setter people. Unlike goldens where majority of dogs are field/performance bred, the dogs are all show bred. The dogs I know of are either OTCH dogs or competing at that level usually though there's one gordon breeder trainer who will take on dogs from her breeding program to get quick hurry up CD's on them so the dogs can have that versatility title. She basically will take in dogs for a month and get all the training in and get the CD's very quickly. She has also put JHs on them in the same fashion.

I've asked the owners why there aren't more setters in obedience and generally they can't answer other than saying the dogs are not for everyone. Whatever that means.

 

[Megora]

I know what she means

But you could say that about any breed. Goldens especially. LOL.

We have so many people looking into goldens who if you did a write up of what type of person that they are in reality, you would see them better suited to own one of those breeds that if you see them being shown - the handlers just speed walk with a very delicate and dainty hold on the leash, there's no running or muscle needed.

Goldens.... OMG. The one time I saw a young golden who was so completely quiet and extremely well behaved at 5 months, I literally wondered if the dog had a serious health problem. LOL.

 

[Megora]

Goldens in general are a breed that is pretty well suited to a broad range of people, especially given the breed split. They are beautifully versatile. But some breeds aren't like that though and they have a narrow range of "appropriateness" for ownership. I would say my old Ridgeback fell into that category, they truly aren't a "for just about everyone" dog. Some breeds are like that, perhaps they don't possess the biddability, or affability that most people need in a dog, some are exceptionally stubborn or possess in born guarding behaviors etc.

Eh.... breed split has nothing at all to do with it.

There's people who should really focus on itty bitty dogs thinking about getting the same attributes in a golden retriever. And they are completely miserable or they make the dogs miserable with all the control devices they strap on the dogs.

Seriously - so many legit dog breeds. Some people need to do a little research.

 

[Megora]

It has a lot to do with it. Hunters wouldn't choose goldens if there were only conformationally bred goldens available, show folks would be unlikely to choose a golden if they were all field line dogs with the shorter coats, smaller bodies etc. The breed split is most definitely one of the reasons why goldens are so universally liked, because "there's something for almost everyone" in goldens. People like you can show them, people like me can hunt them. They can do service work, SAR, therapy work, tracking, etc. Not all breeds have that wide of a versatility base. Goldens are pretty awesome that way.

I do agree with you though that some people choose the wrong dog, because they want a "look" more than than they want a dog that really fits into their lives.

People like me can show my dogs + do anything I want with my dogs. Have shown decently enough with my dogs, done obedience, dabbled in tracking, agility, and even field. Dabbling means doing the training for fun but not bothering to compete. Tracking especially - I really loved doing with my dogs and would do serious if trials were on Saturdays instead of Sundays. <= Because this is a fantastic breed that can do everything, no splits needed.

But what I was really saying is on this forum so many people (pet people) come looking for golden retrievers and describe the type of homes they are. And many times they are a poor fit for a sporting breed. And many forget that golden retrievers, even show lines, are sporting breed dogs.

I do have a question regarding golden retrievers and their coat coloring. If anyone with knowledge of the breed knows do some breeders only breed the darker red coat versus the lighter Goldens. I think the darker coats are beautiful and I would prefer, is that something certain breeders focus on? Are they harder to find? Any suggestions for breeders in tbe Northern California area?

Look into breeders in Washington and beyond that, see breeders in western Canada.