Found this on the AKC's Secretary page:


I often wonder how that works when they already have litters on the way. There are currently five litters listed on the Gap View site - 2 whelped at the end of March and the other 3 earlier this month.

That's too bad.

Suspended is suspended. No registrations.

 

Not good. I'd suspect that the puppies couldn't be registered, period.

What exactly does this mean that they did?

 

Not good. I'd suspect that the puppies couldn't be registered, period.

Correct!
When a person is suspended by the AKC, the registrations of ALL dogs they own are also suspended. So all of their animals are in limbo and any puppies on the way can't be registered with the AKC.

 

Does this mean they can't charge so much money for the pups, or enter shows?

 

They can charge whatever they want (or in this case can get).

They can not enter any AKC Show, or Event while under suspension.

 

Found this on the AKC's Secretary page:

Notice
The AKC’s Management Disciplinary
Committee has suspended the following individuals
from all AKC privileges for six months
and imposed a fine of $500 for having submitted
or caused to be submitted two litter registration
applications that they knew, should have
known, or had a duty to know contained false
certifications (DNA exclusion):
Effective February 17, 2010
Mr. David Liskey, A.K.A. Dave Liskey
(Broadway, VA) Golden Retriever

I often wonder how that works when they already have litters on the way. There are currently five litters listed on the Gap View site - 2 whelped at the end of March and the other 3 earlier this month.

Big surprise. NOT. There are SO many other "breeders" like this. It is too bad that the AKC has such limited resources to nail them all.

 

I would question if it's really lack of resources, or AKC not wanting to loose those registration fees....

Lana

 

Would the pups still qualify for an ILP (once they were no longer the property of the suspended kennel that is)? If so, they could still compete in performance events.

 

Wow...these folks came off very badly when they were discussed on this board and then joined under false pretenses. Interesting to see all those red flags confirmed by an AKC ruling.

So, does that statement mean that they registered pups with an incorrect sire and/or dam? And they should have known better (not an honest mistake)?

 

It's nice to hear that something has been done, but it sure doesn't sounds like enough IMO.

 

Well, again they were cited for messing with lineage paperwork? Not for the condition of their dogs, right? The AKC seems to have a fairly high tolerance for crappy breeding practices before it takes a step like this.

 

Again from the AKC website:

Compliance Audit Program
DNA genotyping is one of the tools that AKC Inspectors use during routine kennel inspections. AKC inspectors review litter and dog records, check dog identification, examine the conditions of the kennel, and collect DNA samples from litters and their sires and/or dams.

These DNA samples are collected and processed at AKC's expense. DNA Profiles are not issued for dogs sampled during kennel inspections. When errors are found (puppies are 'excluded' to the mating of the sire and dam), the litter registrations are corrected if possible or converted to Conditional Registration.

There is a graduated schedule of fines and penalties when exclusions are found, as follows (effective 11/1/2001):

One excluded litter – the litter owner(s) would receive a letter of reprimand. Litter owner may request additional DNA testing to determine correct parentage, paying the $250 fee for the AKC Inspector's return.

Two excluded litters within a 5-year period – the litter owner(s) would be referred to the Management Discipline Committee for appropriate action (penalty 6 months and a $500.00 fine). Litter owner may request additional DNA testing to determine correct parentage, paying the $250 fee for the AKC Inspector's return.

Three excluded litters within a 5-year period – the litter owner(s) would be referred to the Management Discipline Committee for appropriate action (penalty 1-year suspension and a $1,000.00 fine). Litter owner may request additional DNA testing to determine correct parentage, paying the $250 fee for the AKC Inspector's return.

Four excluded litters within a 5-year period – the litter owner(s) would be referred to the Management Discipline Committee for appropriate action (penalty 5-year suspension and a $2,000.00 fine).
In cases where an exclusion resulted from intent and/or knowledge of the breeder/owner, staff may seek suspension after confirming the first exclusion.

So it looks like the inspector went to Gap View, took DNA samples from the litters that were there and found that in 2 cases, the DNA of the pups did not match the DNA of the dogs that were supposed to be their parents. Curious to know if they paid the additional $250 fee to find out which parents actually sired those litters.

 

Wow, so either they let the dogs breed indiscriminantly by not making certain a bitch in heat was under supervision or they knowingly bred the bitch to one sire but claimed it was another. I guess they would do this if they wanted people to think it was a better breeding/pairing than it was.

Irresponsible. Yuck.

 

Very irresponsible...drives me nuts...

 

THis is a very common scenario with "breeders" like this. The one in MI that took so much of my life away from me had issues with this. They ALLOW dogs to breed indiscriminately. They do not CARE about pedigrees, health clearances, temperaments, etc etc, only that two dogs of the opposite sex with intact reproductive organs are capable of pumping out profits for them.
They will also make litter registrations stating that there are more dogs than were actually whelped, thereby providing them with extra registration slips that they give to buyers of dogs from different litters, often out of parents that are nto even registered themselves. It's ugly.
While it is true that the AKC survives on registration fees, it is also very true that they are woefully understaffed in regards to making field inspections and for stopping these disgusting manufacturers of puppies. As Swampcollie said, it is only when they receive complaints, filed in the proper manner, that they can follow up on them, and when they do, they DO suspend them.

 

Curious

Has anyone out there gotten a puppy from gapview lately? I was just wondering if you have had any problems or any concerns with your puppy. I see that a lot of people are concerned about their practices, but is anyone a customer of recent that could put in their thoughts? Thanks!

 

My Comet, who lived 12 perfectly healthy years and was a wonderful dog, came from there. The purchase experience was excellent, and the papers/certifications were in order. But it was under different ownership at the time.

I personally would not buy a puppy there now, and I'm sad to say forever at this point.

Has anyone out there gotten a puppy from gapview lately? I was just wondering if you have had any problems or any concerns with your puppy. I see that a lot of people are concerned about their practices, but is anyone a customer of recent that could put in their thoughts? Thanks!

 

Hi Riley05, Welcome to the forum. Do you have a golden?

 

Hi Riley05, Welcome to the forum. If your interested in them, I would suggest running their name in the search section. This kennel has a lot written about them both good and bad. if you are looking for a golden congratulations on doing the research ahead of time. There is a lot of great information documented right on this site.

Please introduce yourself and let us know what you are looking for in a golden.

Take care !
Patrick

 

Yes, I am interested in a Golden. I grew up with them my entire life and since I have moved out of my family's home I have wanted one of my own. I am finally in the right place in my life to get one. Thanks for such a warm welcome!

About Gapview, it does seem they have a lot of dogs on their premises. However, everything seems to be very clean and the website seems to be pretty informative. They also allow anyone to visit anytime, which leads me to believe they are not trying to hide anything. I am just curious because of all the bad things being said (mostly bad practices), it appears that anyone that has gotten a dog from there has had nothing but great things to say.

What exactly did they get suspended for from the AKC? They just didn't provide the correct information their dogs? It kind of lost me, I am new to all of this stuff. Thanks for all the quick responses and all of the help!

 

The AKC does not suspend people unless there is a reason. I would not recommend getting a puppy from Gap View Kennels considering their suspension. In my opinion- If they don't even monitor their bitches in heat, how do they adequately supervise, interact, and help puppies developmentally from birth until 8 weeks? The sheer volume of puppies they produce reeks of the beginnings of a mill. :no:

They are plenty of wonderful kennels in the area- I would certainly look elsewhere.

Choose a puppy from an impeccable breeder, for the best chance at a beautiful, healthy best friend. If you tell us your area, we can help.

I agree! If you stick around GRF, you will hear of broken hearts and wallets because someone has bought a puppy from a less than reputable breeder that is in need of medical/behavioral attention. Please let us help you find a breeder that can provide you with a healthy, happy puppy.

 

I would not get a dog from them. You would not be able to reqister the dog with the AKC so it is no different then getting a dog from the shelter, IMO.
Per ragtym
So it looks like the inspector went to Gap View, took DNA samples from the litters that were there and found that in 2 cases, the DNA of the pups did not match the DNA of the dogs that were supposed to be their parents. Curious to know if they paid the additional $250 fee to find out which parents actually sired those litters.

So what that tells me is that puppies are not kept in seperate kennels with their mother away from other litters, but I am not a breeder.And with so many litters on the ground at one time, I would not be surprised to see that happen. I am not certain.

 

It used to be this way.

When I was there in 1995 the Mom and Pups had their own straw 'room' where they grew up and were mothered. It was a long-barn type of setup and I believe there were 4 or 5 'rooms'.

It may be entirely different now.

So what that tells me is that puppies are not kept in seperate kennels with their mother away from other litters, but I am not a breeder.And with so many litters on the ground at one time, I would not be surprised to see that happen. I am not certain.

 

Choose a puppy from an impeccable breeder, for the best chance at a beautiful, healthy best friend. If you tell us your area, we can help.

 

The thing is, if you look at gap view, they do look ok from the average person's point of view. Cute puppies and information on health.

BUT....

They don't practice what they preach - many of the dogs on their websites do not have all of their clearances, some only have a few, which means either the dog failed the clearance or they just didn't bother. The puppies are also raised in a kennel, not in a home, so there can be issues there as well. None of the dogs they use for breeding are shown, so add possible training issues (if the parents aren't trained and/or socialized, they don't need to have good temperments, and if they don't have them they can't pass them on). Sheer numbers of dogs and puppies means it's likely they don't see people for more than just feeding and cleaning out kennels, and who knows how they'll treat one of their hundreds of customers who purchase a pup from them...

Compare that to paying the SAME OR LESS for a pup from a breeder who only has a few dogs, who live in the house with them. Both parents have all of the required clearances and maybe a few extra ones as well - if the dog didn't pass it's not used for breeding. Puppies raised in the house, used to the noises and smells of household life, handled daily and socialized with new things, introduced to some basic training methods, crates, loud noises, toys, new people. Each puppy is known as an individual and if there are any concerns they get extra help as needed by the breeder or is sent home with the information. Temperment testing on the pups at the right time to see who would fit where the best for homes. Pups are used to a clean living space and fit right into housebreaking quickly. Parents of the pups are both shown and trained for different events, so they have great temperments and are able to go out in public and handle stress and still perform, so the pups have a good shot at the same, and the new puppy parents can brag about their pup's 'working' parents latest titles. Breeder is very supportive of the new owners getting into events as well, and will call often to check on things as well as take the dog back at any time if there is an issue....

Lana

 

This is one part of the whole deal (and I'm leaving the whole Gap View discussion here for a bit) where I'm not 100% sold on.

Showing.

I'm not convinced that showing (ring or field) is absolutely necessary. If the Mom and Pop have all the proper clearances, and there is good history behind them, then I'm not so sure I care about the show thing at all.

Rusty was a farm dog. Nikita was a Pet Shop dog (before I knew better). Comet was from field lines, and came from Gap View in 1996. Dakota was a BYB dog that I traded a guitar amplifier for.

Speaking strictly on temperament, all of them were exceptionally well-rounded, wonderful dogs except possibly Nikita. She was good, but could be a bit of a bitch if she wanted to be

Of my current two:

Gilmour - Gilmour is as pure and properly bred as any Golden can possibly be. He comes from Pebwin and Lycinnan lines. He was bred by a breeder that has over 40 years experience, and is also an AKC Judge. In just his 5 generation pedigree, he has over forty-three champions and multi-champions, which includes the famous Mulder (Pebwin-XPDNC is his grandfather).

Gilmour is a wonderful dog. I really could not ask for anything more. He is a smaller golden, on the lower end of the proper weight range (65 pounds of pure muscle), but I actually adore him for that. He has a cute factor of 10 He meets the proper Golden specs in all respects.

But if I'm being honest, I also have to say he is an exceptionally high energy Golden. He can also be hard headed Some may call him a bit high-strung, but I don't like that term because his temperament is perfect. He's simply a power-packed pooch LOL I would not change a thing about him, but it also would not bother me if he mellowed a bit as he aged.

Milo - The classic BYB dog. Re-homed to me at 8 months by a family expecting a baby. Parents cleared, but no show/field trial history at all that I know of. He is of the field variety. He is such a big, lovable goofball everyone he meets just adores him. He lives for his toys. He has to bring one to bed with him every night. If the one he wants is 2 feet away, he still hops and pounces on it like a bunny rabbit He is absolutely stuffed full of character.

And he also has the ability to take everything Gilmour can dish out play wise, which is a ton, and hand it right back.

So, is Show/Field Trials important to a dog's temperament? I still don't know. To be honest, the personal experience I have shows just the opposite.

And I also have to say that the most loving, goofy, wonderful-temperament Goldens I've met have all been of the field variety. But I also have to say that of the very few 'mean' Golden's I've ever met, the nastiest of the bunch were also field Golden's. I have no idea what the hell that means

None of the dogs they use for breeding are shown, so add possible training issues (if the parents aren't trained and/or socialized, they don't need to have good temperments, and if they don't have them they can't pass them on)

 

This is great news! I hope this really discourages people from buying puppies from Gap View. I've run into quite a few people with Gap View goldens over the past year... they seem to have really cornered the Northern Virginia unsuspecting puppy buyer market. Hopefully this will put a halt to that.

 

****. It was starting to sound like David was in over his head. I guess maybe it's true

My Comet came from there when Harold still owned the place.

 

Thanks for all of your input and opinions! I was hoping that someone on here may have dealt with Gapview before. After looking at all of your posts, I think that I will be going back to the drawing board.

 

Yes, but in 1996. I got me a great dog who lived for 12 years. He passed just last year.

But it is under different ownership now, and as others have dug up over time, the clearances deal seems to be a bit of a mess there.

BTW... That's Comet in my Avatar. Son of Gap Views Dakota and Las Vegas.

How soon are you looking to bring one home. I can check with Gilmour's breeder to see when her next litter is. Generally, there is only one per year.

 

Puppy

I'm a new member to your forum. I am looking for a new puppy to add to my family. We already have two older dogs, but my daughter is a bit to active for either of them. So we have decided to purchase a golden. I too was interested in a Gap View puppy until I read comments on this website. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good breeder in my area? I live in Central Virginia (Charlottesville area)?

 

I'm a new member to your forum. I am looking for a new puppy to add to my family. We already have two older dogs, but my daughter is a bit to active for either of them. So we have decided to purchase a golden. I too was interested in a Gap View puppy until I read comments on this website. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good breeder in my area? I live in Central Virginia (Charlottesville area)?

You should start a new topic in the "Choosing a GR Breeder" section so that you will get more responses.

You can look at Lycinan Goldens, Delmarva Goldens, Elderado Goldens. How far are you willing to travel? Make sure you look at the "Puppy Buyer's Fact Guide" and other stickies that will provide you important info about clearances and health.

 

Thanks everyone! I will look at Lycinan Goldens and start a new topic in the Choosing GR Breeder section!

 

Lycinan has puppies now, and an adorable little girl pictured. My boy is sired by Lycinan Big Bang too.

 

Sunkota Goldens is in the area, and will probably have good advice if not a littler. I love their dogs.


Cathy Story
Fairfax Station, VA USA 22039
cathy@sunkota.com
www.sunkota.com/sunkota_goldens.htm

 

Sunkota Goldens is in the area, and will probably have good advice if not a littler. I love their dogs.


I had not heard of Sunkota but it looks interesting.

 

If you are looking for a Pup in VA, and I have not PM'd you already, send me a PM...