Are Champion Titles Important?

Really, this forum is this active? thanks for giving me advises guys. It sure helps a lot. Thank you!

After reading all these.. I think I'll get the one with champion title in the bloodline , no need to have so many champion titles.. But at least his ancestors meet the standards..

I won't buy from a puppy mills or pet shop. Gonna buy it from breeder. But the breeder I choose seems large. Has more than 150 goldens.. Doesn't it mean their priority is money? Or it means that they are professionals? They will give you another new puppy in case your puppy die before 6 months from buying.
But I saw that they don't pay quite much attention for the grooming of their puppies (excluding the expensive ones).

What do you think? Better choose a small kennel which showers love but not quite popular with its quality or this large kennel ? This large kennel has quite many facilities for the dogs.. But I still don't know what's the best..

Again, thank you!

 

Hello, guys !

I'm about to be a first time dog owner.

I would be really happy if anyone in this forum could help me to choose the right puppy since I'm inexperienced. The question is : are champion titles important?
I want my new golden retriever to be family pet, not for shows. but of course I want him to have good traits and health. Does more champion titles mean better traits and health? Or just a better appearance?
Do I really need to check champions title on the bloodline to have a better puppy?

Thank you so much


/**********************************************************************************************************************************/

Really, this forum is this active? thanks for giving me advises guys. It sure helps a lot. Thank you!

After reading all these.. I think I'll get the one with champion title in the bloodline , no need to have so many champion titles.. But at least his ancestors meet the standards..

I won't buy from a puppy mills or pet shop. Gonna buy it from breeder. But the breeder I choose seems large. Has more than 150 goldens.. Doesn't it mean their priority is money? Or it means that they are professionals? They will give you another new puppy in case your puppy die before 6 months from buying.
But I saw that they don't pay quite much attention for the grooming of their puppies (excluding the expensive ones).

What do you think? Better choose a small kennel which showers love but not quite popular with its quality or this large kennels ?
Again, thank you!

150 goldens That is a puppy mill Run as quick as you can from them!!! They are GREEDERS! Not Breeders! RUN!!

Most reputable breeders have full time jobs &/or Significant other who work full time to support the breeding and competing with the dogs. IMO- True breeders never will make a profit from their breedings and will be lucky to break even. Breeding is a labor of love!

I want the breeder who loves their pups and cries like it is their own child when the puppy leaves with me. A breeder who has their pups in muck and doesn't care about grooming is not for me! Yes pups make a mess quickly but a great breeders pups will still smell nice not like poop.

Most breeders give a 2 year health guarantee. What about if your pup does not die within the first 6 months but has crippling hip dysplasia?

In summary- Run from this greeder!!

 

Not necessarily unless you are going to show. Just ask about health clearances and make sure the ancestors have had them too. Champion bloodlines don't mean much for pet owners, but health clearances mean everything.

 

I am on the complete opposite end of the scale concerning this post. I want Ch. titles on a puppy's parents and beyond. If a parent doesn't have a title, then I want to know why. It might not be a deal breaker, but I would definitely prefer titles on both parents.

I agree 100% with Megora that I want a Golden that looks like a Golden. I want to know that the parents are as close to standard as possible and were judged by someone other than their owner(s). Have you ever heard of the term "kennel blind"? It's when a breeder refuses/can't see their own dogs' faults. By showing their dogs, it helps to avoid this. Not all the time, but it can be a wake up call if their dogs aren't winning.

If I ever purchase a puppy, I want the whole package, titles, health testing, temperament. And, I'm willing to pay for it, too.

 

While it's probably not NECESSARY for the parents to be champions, but I think looking on both sides (mom and dad) you want to see conformation titles, obedience titles, etc...

Those titles pretty much ensure that your dog will be close to standard as possible. While it may not matter that much for you as an owner, I DO think that all breeders out there should be pushed to breed to a higher standard vs whatever they can get their hands on. Otherwise, the further back you have to look for breed champions... the odds are you are going to see more and more faults in the litters being produced. And you are really getting into byb territory there with dogs with houndy ears or vastly oversized or undersized bodies, incorrect coats, round or light eyes, etc...

 

To me titles show the owner did something with the dog other than just bred them. Can be conformation, hunting, obedience, etc. titles. If the dog does not have a conformation championship than it should have a CCA- IMO- It shows the dog meet bred standard GRCA-CCA

The parents should also have the 4 clearances- OFA hips (after age 2), OFA elbows (after age 2), heart (by cardiologist), and CERF eyes (done yearly).

Welcome to the Group!

 

Welcome to the Group!

To me titles show the owner did something with the dog other than just bred them. Can be conformation, hunting, obedience, etc. titles. If the dog does not have a conformation championship than it should have a CCA- IMO- It shows the dog meet bred standard GRCA-CCA

The parents should also have the 4 clearances- OFA hips (after age 2), OFA elbows (after age 2), heart (by cardiologist), and CERF eyes (done yearly).

 

Welcome to the Group!

To me titles show the owner did something with the dog other than just bred them. Can be conformation, hunting, obedience, etc. titles. If the dog does not have a conformation championship than it should have a CCA- IMO- It shows the dog meet bred standard GRCA-CCA

The parents should also have the 4 clearances- OFA hips (after age 2), OFA elbows (after age 2), heart (by cardiologist), and CERF eyes (done yearly).

All clearances is an absolute must on the parents, grandparents, etc.

I think that part of the reason why you may sometimes have dogs bred without titles is because the breeder wanted to breed them by 24 months and retire them from breeding by 48 months...

But sometimes these dogs don't get titles until they are older.

I'm probably biased here, because Jacks parents were not shown in anything. But lots of champions behind him ensure he at least looks like a golden.

 

I agree with Mika! The bare minimum would be health clearances and a CCA. But I do like to see that the dogs have a title in some arena as well.

 

I agree. I would prefer to see titles on the parents of the pup showing that the breeder has done SOMETHING with them. They can be Conformation titles, Obedience, Agility, Field, Etc.

 

This is such a strong answer.. I didn't even consider that point. At least the breeder do something else .. I think I already have the best answer, thanks guys!

 

Means nothing to me as all my dogs are rescues.

 

My present Golden is a rescue

 

I also think that if there are titles, then there is usually a reason for this breeding other than to produce puppies. If you are showing in conformation vs field those reasons most likely will differ a bit, same with agility and so on. But they show that the breeder has an interest in what ever arena they are in and therefore are most likely concerned with producing a pup for themselves with a specific purpose.....

 

I agree, I don't care what venue, just the fact that the breeder is doing something with the dogs besides just breeding.

 

I get two kinds of puppies, show dogs and pets. When I get a pet dog, I don't care about titles. In fact, I rescue the unwanted ones. And sometimes that means they are very far from the breed standard. And sometimes it means they have health iasues. I don't care. They are Goldens and I provide a loving home and wonderful life for them.

Obviously, with show dogs titles matter, at least in the pedigree if not in the parents.

 

That's very kind of you! someday I'll hope i can rescue some too.. But without experience I'm not sure I can handle that. I will learn from this first puppy I have! Good luck with your dogs

 

I couldn't care less about titles for a pet dog. The only thing important in the pedigree is health clearances. I rescue puppies from mills. That means I'm not getting champions, and sometimes I get dogs with a health issue. I don't care. I'm doing something good. And in exchange, I get a wonderful dog who gives me unconditional love while I provide them with love and a great life. What could be better than that?

 

My Buddy is a rescue- Bred in Amish country, PA and sold to a man who has no business owning a houseplant let alone an animal. He has chronic health problems now do to poor breeding and a rough start in life but I would not trade him for the world. I know he will cost me a small fortune compared to the yorkies or even my previous Golden, Lucky.

But how do you "rescue puppies from mills?". Just wondering because there are different ways of doing it- Buy directly from the mill, buy from a petstore, or work with an actual rescue. I hope it is the later way.

If a person buys from a BYB or Greeder they are supporting abuse in my eyes. I would report them whenever possible myself.

 

I would get from a reputable breeder myself if I wanted a purebred golden- DON'T support BYB or "greeters"- The same with petstores (puppy mills pups) and the Amish. But I would rescue from a shelter, private citizen (not breeder), or rescue, too but I would go with the belief this dog will cost me a fortune. Buying from a greeder is not the same thing as rescuing- That person will keep doing it as long as they keep making money.

I love Buddy to death but he was rescued from a horrible situation after he was sold by the Amish to a man who had no business owning a houseplant let alone and animal. Buddy has chronic health problems do to poor breeding and a rough start before I got him.

 

I will never understand why people feel that a "pet" puppy should be so different in it's requirements of it's parents than a "show" puppy. It's crazy to me. I don't get it. Every litter has the possibility of show and pet puppies. Just because someone wants a pet doesn't mean that the breeder should be lacking in providing the best and healthiest possible breeding that they can. Why should I want any less in my pet puppy's breeding than the person that wants a show puppy. Aren't all show dogs first and foremost pets, too?

And BTW, rescues are a totally different ball game. Both of mine were rescues and Chance is as far from standard as you can get. The OP is talking purchasing a puppy from a breeder, not rescuing. When you rescue you know there's usually no history behind the puppy/dog. When you purchase, your puppy should have the best breeding possible, whether show or pet. Shouldn't matter.

Edited to add: Can the two threads be merged since they're the exact same thing?

 

I will never understand why people feel that a "pet" puppy should be so different in it's requirements of it's parents than a "show" puppy. It's crazy to me. I don't get it. Every litter has the possibility of show and pet puppies. Just because someone wants a pet doesn't mean that the breeder should be lacking in providing the best and healthiest possible breeding that they can. Why should I want any less in my pet puppy's breeding than the person that wants a show puppy. Aren't all show dogs first and foremost pets, too?

Well said, I have to say it makes me crazy when people call for a puppy and say I only want a pet. My question is usually what is the difference? I would imagine many are looking for a lower prices but I don't see a difference. Show dogs are pets who are an excellent representative of the breed. Just because the other siblings do not make it to the ring they are no less a puppy and don't always lack the potential. I know I would want to go to a breeder that works towards breeding within the standard. I think it is just as importantly as clearances. This shows me they are working to improve the breed and preserve what it took 135 years to create.

 

Most breeders will only get 1 or 2 show quality pups from a litter the rest will be pet quality.

 

in a littler of 8 you might get two show puppies, the rest will be pets... do the titles matter... only in that it tells you that the breeder has a level of commitment to the breed outside of making money by selling puppies. For a hunting dog I DO absolutely think that hunt titles or a dog that does hunt does make a difference. I bred to a dog with hunting titles and to one that did not have hunting titles and let me tell you that the puppies from the dog with the hunt titles have a great deal more drive and aptitude in that area.

For a pet puppy does it really matter... well to me you are buying a breeder even more than you are buying a puppy. You will love any puppy that you get... it is how dogs have survived for so many years... every single one will weasle their way into your heart but if you want to know that your breeder is committed to the breed and the breeds well being and is there for the life of the dog to assist you and when the time comes to cry on your shoulder then you really want the whole package, clearances, references, titles etc. you aren't goign to save that much by going to someone that does nothing with their dogs
just my two cents

 

Can this thread be merged with the identical thread in the other sub forum?

 

You want to see titles on the parents because you want to see that the breeder is proving that their dogs are worth breeding, not just putting two animals together willy-nilly in order to make a buck.

Conformation helps ensure a dog that shows good breed type (everything you like about the breed you're picking), and helps ensure the dog has good structure and at least decent temperament.

Obedience, agility, and hunting titles can show trainability, retrieving aptitude, and athleticism.

Sometimes you'll see a parent (usually the bitch) without titles because the right age for her to breed might be relatively early in her competition career. But beyond that, yes, you want to see some kind of titles on the parents on top of the basic health clearances.

 

yeah i just noticed it was in two places... gosh I wish folks wouldn't do that... I answered down there and i am searching like crazy through this one thinking that i had lost my mind and didn't really answer it... oyyyyy

 

Sorry this was double posted. I wanted to post it not on the main discussion, but I was wrong so I post it again on a right subforum. Sorry

 

Already Merged by another Mod.

 

I also think a CH title on a dog show the breeder has been out and about in the community, learning. It is very rare that a CH is finished without a "village" - other dogs before, learning to groom, learning to choose the right pup etc. It takes quite a bit of work in the breed to get there, often at least if not always.

 

The benefits of titled parents, in my opinion

This is a question that a lot of puppy buyers have. I don't want a show dog, why should I care about champions or performance titles in the pedigree?

1. When you buy from a breeder who is actively competing and showing, they are out there in the fancy. They are talking to other breeders, attending seminars, gaining knowledge of structure, heritable diseases, bloodlines and care. This means they are not working in a vacuum.

2. Breeders who compete are actively looking to improve their line. That litter they are producing is one they are hoping will produce the next step in their program. They are working for themselves. You reap the benefit since there are usually a small number of show quality, the rest are pets. Ever hear the addage you work harder when your selfemployed? It is the same philosophy here.

3. Structure, structure structure. Breeders who compete will have more structurally sound dogs. In addition the core four clearences, the dog's structure will determine if it will live most of it's life comfortable with activity or not able to go and do because of structural break down. This is where those Champion titles really come in. Champions are not judged on beauty, but it is a really nice by-product. They are judged on structure, angulation, movement, etc. Your pet puppy will benefit from these attributes.

4. Temperament. I want a dog that comes from stock that has been out in the world doing something. Dogs who compete and title not only prove themselves in that venue, but also that they can handle life beyond their home. Dogs that stay at home may have great temperaments but, how do they behave away from home in stressful conditions. Dogs that compete are exposed to these stresses and succeed.

5. My vanity. Okay, it is hard to look at a golden puppy an not think what a cutie! But, if I have chosen to buy a puppy and not rescue, I want my dog to be gorgeous. Call it vain, but that is what I want. I know that with parents that are proven in competition that is going to run in the line. I want things like proper coat, dark pigment, great structure, lovely top lines, fantastic headpieces, and lovely expression.

A word on champions in the grand parents generation and further back...if there are not titles in the parents generation, those grand parents titles don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Quality can be lost in just a generation or two of careless breeding. It is not necessary for both parents to be titled, but it would be nice. At least one should be.

It always boggles my mind when less than reputable breeders point to the Champions in the grandparent or great-grandparent generation as a selling point.:doh:
They know that these titles are important and tough to get so they claim that their dog is just as good with out doing anything to "prove" them in competition.

 

This is a question that a lot of puppy buyers have. I don't want a show dog, why should I care about champions or performance titles in the pedigree?

1. When you buy from a breeder who is actively competing and showing, they are out there in the fancy. They are talking to other breeders, attending seminars, gaining knowledge of structure, heritable diseases, bloodlines and care. This means they are not working in a vacuum.

2. Breeders who compete are actively looking to improve their line. That litter they are producing is one they are hoping will produce the next step in their program. They are working for themselves. You reap the benefit since there are usually a small number of show quality, the rest are pets. Ever hear the addage you work harder when your selfemployed? It is the same philosophy here.

3. Structure, structure structure. Breeders who compete will have more structurally sound dogs. In addition the core four clearences, the dog's structure will determine if it will live most of it's life comfortable with activity or not able to go and do because of structural break down. This is where those Champion titles really come in. Champions are not judged on beauty, but it is a really nice by-product. They are judged on structure, angulation, movement, etc. Your pet puppy will benefit from these attributes.

4. Temperament. I want a dog that comes from stock that has been out in the world doing something. Dogs who compete and title not only prove themselves in that venue, but also that they can handle life beyond their home. Dogs that stay at home may have great temperaments but, how do they behave away from home in stressful conditions. Dogs that compete are exposed to these stresses and succeed.

5. My vanity. Okay, it is hard to look at a golden puppy an not think what a cutie! But, if I have chosen to buy a puppy and not rescue, I want my dog to be gorgeous. Call it vain, but that is what I want. I know that with parents that are proven in competition that is going to run in the line. I want things like proper coat, dark pigment, great structure, lovely top lines, fantastic headpieces, and lovely expression.

A word on champions in the grand parents generation and further back...if there are not titles in the parents generation, those grand parents titles don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Quality can be lost in just a generation or two of careless breeding. It is not necessary for both parents to be titled, but it would be nice. At least one should be.

It always boggles my mind when less than reputable breeders point to the Champions in the grandparent or great-grandparent generation as a selling point.:doh:
They know that these titles are important and tough to get so they claim that their dog is just as good with out doing anything to "prove" them in competition.

This is a really fantastic post.

 

The GRCA defines a "high volume breeder" as anybody with 7+ litters, and while they don't come out and say it's a terrible place to get a dog, they don't really encourage it as the ideal source for a Golden.

If 7+ litters is high volume, how much volume is 150 dogs? There's no way they're doing it right. So much goes into matching up dogs to produce healthy puppies, and so much goes into raising and socializing puppies properly, not to mention matching their temperaments with a family's lifestyle.

 

150 dogs is way to many! I agree I wouldn't buy a puppy from them either just based on the amount of dogs and the 6 month guarantee! I want to see at least a 24 mo guarantee and not just if dog dies I get a replacement.

My girl is coming from a breeder who offers a 30 month guarantee on hips, elbow, eyes, heart and thyroid. If something happens to my puppy I have two choices, to keep my puppy and get a new one free, or to keep my puppy and get monies back to help with the cost. She does not require I return my girl to her, which I like, as let's face it I wouldn't be able to. I think even if I found a heart murmur at her puppy checkup it would be hard to return her.

 

How would you compare CCA to a Champion title?
CCA is ofcourse not a competitive title - does that make it inferior? I recently met a lovely dog (dam of a litter I am very interested in) with a CCA tittle who was not shown by the breeder and was thus wondering about the differences.

 

I think it depends... a CH can be hard to get and expensive, it can also be hard to put a CH on a English dog so we tend to use the CCA .... if we can get up to canada we will do that but it is not something we can always do.