So I'm curious if this is true, how they would have obtained their golden retrievers?

Cheats and liars. And if you get a pedigree from them - please share, because guarantee a breeder either needs to be made famous for selling to a mutt breeder, or they will want to make the buyer who purchased the golden very famous in the golden retriever community so they can never purchase another puppy from anyone.

If that's the type of people you want to deal with - good luck.

 

I’m definitely not an expert, but I think the crossbreeding results in a puppy who has the worst, not the best traits of the golden and the poodle. Also I believe that the health can also be compromised since an ethical golden breeder and an ethical poodle breeder would never cross breed, so you’re starting out with inferior lines. As far as keeping the house clean, you will have to come to terms with the shedding (I responded in your earlier post) and potty accidents that will definitely happen!! Also depending on where you live, wet fur and muddy paws will happen during the winter and spring. I bought a case of baby wipes and keep a package by the door. Also, there is the Landshark phase, which is a real thing and can hurt, especially for your 7 year old.

I do appreciate you asking these types of questions and really thinking about what you can handle. Too many times people think they’re getting the golden retriever that they see in the movies. My Archie is almost 2 and we’re still training because there is the insolent teenage phase and then the phase he is currently in, which my husby and I call the Early 20’s…where he thinks he knows everything and wants to be in charge! At the end of the day, for us, Archie is one of the best decisions we’ve ever made. He is sweet and loving and smart and funny and…

 

I’m definitely not an expert, but I think the crossbreeding results in a puppy who has the worst, not the best traits of the golden and the poodle.

There has actually been some research on this. @LJack has the link to the study, but the gist of it was that doodles have worse temperaments than either parent breed. The study included Goldendoodles and labradoodles, coming from both standard and mini poodle parents. An interesting factoid in the study is that a lot small dogs have a gene that is linked to aggression. So if you really want a dog with a bad temperament, get a mini doodle.

 

There's a difference between a truly ethically, reputable Golden Retriever breeder and a breeder whose only motivation is profit. If you only care about profit, you sell to whoever is buying. But that person is NOT getting quality. If you are ethical and breed according to GRCA Code of Ethics, you care about the the breed and wouldn't sell to someone producing crosses unless that person was disingenuous about their intentions. Also, many Eastern European countries will import dogs to the US sight unseen for Insta-start breeding programs.....that's how many so called English Cream breeders got started. Those foreign kennels aren't sending their best dogs over here either. You stand a way better chance of getting a healthy dog with correct temperament from an ethical reputable Golden Retriever breeder than from a breeder of mixes who doesn't have the best of EITHER breed.

 

That makes sense! Thanks so much for your response. I didn't realize that English cream retrievers (some of them) were so easily obtained. It's almost counterintuitive then that most breeders assign a higher sell value to them? But maybe they are just responding to the demand in buyers for that coat color?

 

(None of the moms that they actually proposed to me were on their website and I did not see their health clearances. However, the owner said that it was because they had not had a chance to add these moms to the website yet.

Red flag.

Ask for their registered names. If they truly have clearances, they will be publicly available on OFA. But again, you are asking these questions because I think you know deep down already that doodles do not come from ethical breeders.

The other thing is, not all doodles don't shed. They are half Golden. Crap shoot. Why not just get a full poodle? Or another breed with hair rather than fur.

The other thing is, a Golden is a sporting breed that needs a lot of exercise - not just a yard. Even a dog that is trained for therapy work (and it takes a lot of training) needs a lot of exercise, too. There are lots of very sweet, low shedding pure breeds that may require less exercise. But between the fur and the exercise, it doesn't sound like a Golden would be the best match for you. (Though I will add, I think you'd get over the fur thing fast. Daily brushing and regular vaccuuming can keep the fur in check. And it becomes less of a thing when you love the dog).

 

Red flag.

Ask for their registered names. If they truly have clearances, they will be publicly available on OFA. But again, you are asking these questions because I think you know deep down already that doodles do not come from ethical breeders.

The other thing is, not all doodles don't shed. They are half Golden. Crap shoot. Why not just get a full poodle? Or another breed with hair rather than fur.

The other thing is, a Golden is a sporting breed that needs a lot of exercise - not just a yard. Even a dog that is trained for therapy work (and it takes a lot of training) needs a lot of exercise, too. There are lots of very sweet, low shedding pure breeds that may require less exercise. But between the fur and the exercise, it doesn't sound like a Golden would be the best match for you. (Though I will add, I think you'd get over the fur thing fast. Daily brushing and regular vaccuuming can keep the fur in check. And it becomes less of a thing when you love the dog).

That's right.
How is that relevant?

Because if that is your character, your response has absolutely no value whatsoever.

You’re welcome. If you think you’d be one of those many happy doddle owners you mentioned, then you should get one. But don’t expect a lot of support for that decision on a golden retriever website.

Not asking for support, just helpful, kind information in order to make a well-informed decision.

 

The main issue with Doodles is that there is no standard to breed to. It is not a breed and therefore there is no consistency within the breed. My wife manages a boarding kennel and also in the head groomer with many Doodle clients and the physical appearances, sizes, temperaments are all over the place. Some are wonderful and some well... not so much. If you prefer a dog that does not shed much just get a Poodle but Goldens as much as they can shed their hair is pretty easy to manage as it is long and cleans up easy with a vacuum.

 

 

NO DOODLE BREEDER IS ETHICAL. Period. Step away.
Get a miniature poodle from a responsible breeder. Mini poodles are LOVELY and sound like exactly what you want. They do not shed or smell, they are very clean, they are adorable and wicked smart, they are active if you want to be active but snuggly if you want to just chill.

 

I have to agree with Anney here. I had a mini poodle before I got my first golden. He was a great little dog!

 

Others have made most of the salient points here. You may find the position of the GRCA of interest as well: Goldendoodles - GRCA’s Position - Golden Retriever Club of America

All of us here can sympathize with your desire to own a Golden, BUT owning a Golden means accepting ALL of what it means to own a Golden, which includes a lot of hair in the house, muddy footprints, the land shark phase, and a pretty much life-long need for training and exercise. Getting a doodle may (or may not) address ONE of those things (the hair). All the other challenges exist with the doodles, along with all the risk of buying a mixed breed dog. I think you need to take a hard look at your life and what you are willing to sacrifice in order to not only own a Golden but to give it the kind of life that will make it happy and healthy. There are several lovely breeds that might be better suited to your lifestyle (miniature poodle, bichon frise, coton de tulear.. as well as many others, although you'd need to do your research as to temperament and exercise needs).

If your heart is truly set on a Golden, and you're willing to deal with the hair, you could consider adopting/buying an adult dog. At least then you'd have a good idea of the dog's temperament and exercise needs before you decide it's a good fit for your family.

As for the current doodle breeder you're considering... If you can get the registration numbers for the prospective parents (Goldens and poodles) we can help you research the health history behind them. My guess is that even if the parent dogs have appropriate clearances (which is unlikely) you'll find that the health clearances (and anything else that might make a dog "worthy" of breeding) ends there. If the breeder won't provide the registration numbers for her purebred dogs, then I'd consider that a red flag and move on...

 

I love goldens.

Then don't support unethical breeders, that includes every "doodle" breeder.

 

I’ve worked with hundreds of doodles, and honestly? You couldn’t pay me to own one, much less expect me to pay for one. 9/10 their temperaments are awful. The 1/10 are pretty meh. Nothing to write home about. The issues range from the most fearful dogs I’ve ever seen, to hyperactive with absolutely zero attention span, to severe inappropriate aggression. The only dog we’ve recommended behavioral euthanasia for at the training facility I work at was for a goldendoodle. He’d already bitten four different people (including both of his owners) and was completely unpredictable.

I also fostered a goldendoodle for 5 weeks. When that dog finally left my home, I vowed to never allow one in my house again. Her fur was coarse and wavy on the top, then got soft and more curly as it got closer to the skin. If you so much as breathed on her, it matted. You know how a lot of breed’s coats were designed to repel dirt? Not a doodle. Their fur HOLDS ON to dirt. Literally every single time that dog got a drink, there was a layer of mud on the bottom of the water bowl from all the dirt collected in the fur of her mouth. I was washing the water bowl ten times a day. On top of that, because her fur was almost cottony, everything outside stuck in it. Leaves, sticks, grass, bark, even bugs. And it all got tracked into my house. I was constantly having to clean that up. On top of that, she also shed. There were literally zero positives and a whole bunch of negatives to her coat. When I tried to find a groomer for her, every single one told me that they don’t accept doodles anymore.

As you can see, I strongly advise against the goldendoodle “breed,” but if you can’t handle the shedding of a golden, get a purebred poodle. They come in three sizes, so you should be able to find something that works for you.

 

One of the pups in our akc Star puppy class was a golden doodle and she was cute but she was by far the wildest most uncontrollable dog there. not aggressive but she wasn’t picking things up as quickly as the others and was constantly jumping. And her coat was very long and shaggy and looked super high maintenance to me. The owner kept looking at my golden and lamenting that he never wanted a doodle and wanted a golden but the kids wanted a doodle. I am also learning that Goldens aren’t really all that much like what you see on tv and movies, or they take a ton of training to get there. They are large heavy sporting breeds that won’t be content just sitting around much. My young nieces and nephews are a little scared of my dog only because he has a lot of energy and runs fast and is big and they’re not used to dogs besides a shihtzu that barely moves! My puppy is sweet and funny and cute but he’s a lot. It takes a lot of work on our end to get him to be “well behaved” it doesn’t just happen with golden puppies. Lots of classes, lots of practicing obedience at home, lots of taking him to parks and trails and getting creative with meeting his exercise needs.

 

Before we got our golden (our first dog as a family), we researched both poodles and goldens. A relative who is a vet told us that both were great breeds for temperament. Each has its own health drawbacks/risks. She strongly cautioned against a doodle, however, describing their temperaments as "completely unpredictable."

 

Hello Golden Enthusiasts.

I'm a perspective golden purchaser trying to decide on a breed and a breeder. I love goldens. I think they are the most beautiful dogs with the best kid-friendly temperament for my 7 yo daughter. However, I also love having a clean house. I do not exercise every day.

Maybe a dog isn't the best pet for you then? All dogs require some daily exercise and all dogs will come with a degree of "mess." Also, you are aware that "doodles" have intensive daily grooming needs or they will mat the skin and need shaved?

The puppies are $3500.

For a mutt, bred with no standard, no expectation of predictable temperament. Meanwhile quality, well bred goldens and poodles exist for less $. How is this even remotely a potential choice?

 

.A doodle breeder I researched and am considering, Moss Creek Goldendoodles, has beautiful golden parents on their website with all the major health clearances.

Do they though? I am not seeing it. They can be troubled to put OFAs logo on their site as a selling point but no links to the OFA results on the verification database?! I find no results but considering they hide their dogs behind”call” names, that is not surprising.

Doodles are a bad idea in general. Lack health certifications, low quality breeding stock since no reputable Golden breeder would place a puppy in a mix breed money making scheme, and little to no knowledge gained in competition for this kind of breeder. Big nope from me.

Here is the study info -
Expression of Behavioural Traits in Goldendoodles and Labradoodles

 

Do they though? I am not seeing it. They can be troubled to put OFAs logo on their site as a selling point but no links to the OFA results on the verification database?! I find no results but considering they hide their dogs behind”call” names, that is not surprising.

Doodles are a bad idea in general. Lack health certifications, low quality breeding stock since no reputable Golden breeder would place a puppy in a mix breed money making scheme, and little to no knowledge gained in competition for this kind of breeder. Big nope from me.

Here is the study info -
Expression of Behavioural Traits in Goldendoodles and Labradoodles

Thanks so much for linking the PubMed article. I am in the medical field and use PubMed for evidence based treatment guidelines and appreciate the evidence-based research approach for this topic. I didn't know there were animal studies available there as well! It was interesting to see how much goldendoodles varied from labradoodles and more significantly how miniature poodles scored so poorly in every area.

 

Hello Golden Enthusiasts.

I'm a perspective golden purchaser trying to decide on a breed and a breeder. I love goldens. I think they are the most beautiful dogs with the best kid-friendly temperament for my 7 yo daughter. However, I also love having a clean house. I do not exercise every day. I have a large back yard with a creek behind it and a medium sized fenced in area that is currently overgrown, but could be re-worked to be a play area. I'm in constant inner conflict. I am leaning towards a golden and hoping that bathing once a week, doing the forceful blowing thing, and buying all the brushes will help offset the shedding. However, since you guys have some opinions about golden crosses, could you give me your feedback on a particular doodle breeder? I'm just curious after reading so many posts about crosses on here. A doodle breeder I researched and am considering, Moss Creek Goldendoodles, has beautiful golden parents on their website with all the major health clearances. They report that a lot of their dogs go on to be therapy dogs and their Owner's FB Group members validate this claim. They seem to produce at least some calm, even tempered dogs according to the owners (There are 5000 members in the FB group). I know that the ppl on this forum say that no reputable golden breeder would ever sell their dog to a doodle breeder. So I'm curious if this is true, how they would have obtained their golden retrievers? (None of the moms that they actually proposed to me were on their website and I did not see their health clearances. However, the owner said that it was because they had not had a chance to add these moms to the website yet.) The puppies are $3500.

I also love having a clean house. I have 4 dogs. All of which are shedding breeds/mixes. I also don't exercise every day (or any day), which is why I got a golden retriever from an ethical breeder and was given the puppy who would best fit my lazy lifestyle. If you don't want an off the wall wired dog, then you for sure don't want a doodle. A golden needs daily exercise, yes, but I can achieve that without much work on my part. And when I tell her we're done, she says "ok", and will play with her siblings or go lay down. And if there are days we just cannot get to it (4 days of Covid and I'm lucky the dogs actually ate, let alone had any mental or physical stimulation), she's fine then too (though I've never seen her run to the car faster than the first day we went back to work and I asked her if she was ready).
Point being, there are no ethically bred doodles because the parents are not ethically bred. You are correct that no good breeder would ever sell one of their puppies to someone who was going to breed them to a poodle. Doodle breeders get their puppies from unethical backyard breeders, puppy mills, the amish, etc. You cannot guarantee health, temperament, or disposition on a mixed breed dog. You can't even guarantee non shedding in a mixed breed dog. I mean, it's mixed with a golden retriever. They shed. Brush regularly, vacuum, you're fine. And you definitely don't need to bathe them once a week.

 

I also love having a clean house.

As far as keeping the house clean,

regular vaccuuming

cleans up easy with a vacuum.

I also love having a clean house.

Isn't that what wives are for?
Christmas is almost here guys.

 

Isn't that what wives are for?
Christmas is almost here guys.

You're a savage.. 😝

 

I wanted to make sure I came back to this thread as I own/co-own 4 goldens and most of my family members have doodles, my sister just got a well bred standard poodle puppy also.

Every time we are together (my family has a lake house where all 9 family dogs visit) everyone comments on how clean and nice my dogs coats are (usually they actually have not been freshly bathed — they just have nice correct coats). My dogs are in and out of the water, they dry nicely and that’s it. I do my own grooming, which means my grooming costs are just for my own supplies.

The doodles on the other hand— have horrible coats. The get groomed every 6 weeks and it’s at least $200 in our area. Something I didn’t realize about doodle coats are because of the curly mixture of the coat types (golden or lab and poodle) they mat like CRAZY every time they get wet. The ones in my family are constantly getting shave downs because even with brushing they mat SO easily. Another thing about them I find so gross is that all that beard around their mouths gets so filthy and stinky and drips water and saliva all over the place. And it’s always wet and damp. Or full of food smells or dirt. Always. Nothing like a soggy, stinky, dirty beard trying to lick you in the face.

The fluffy, teddy bear paw feet always need to be shaved because they get wet and dirty and yeasty, which the dogs then lick, creating hot spots and fungal growth. So they’ve mostly taken to shaving the feet and face…which means basically they look like standard poodles…

All of the doodles in family— completely unrelated have food allergies and anal gland issues.

So while you may think you’re getting the best of both breeds with a low shedding coat — you’re not. You’re getting a random mix of the breeds which a coat that is NOT easy to maintain and requires constantly brushing, shaving, bathing, expensive grooming appointments and will likely come with allergies and other issues.

A well bred golden with consistent grooming, kept clean and with occasional brushing is WAY easier to maintain. I vacuum once a day and I don’t have hair all over my house. My dogs don’t smell and neither does my house!

 

Another thing about them I find so gross is that all that beard around their mouths gets so filthy and stinky and drips water and saliva all over the place. And it’s always wet and damp. Or full of food smells or dirt. Always. Nothing like a soggy, stinky, dirty beard trying to lick you in the face.

That one gets me too. I don't care for bearded breeds.

 

Also wanted to add — my sisters poodle is way friendlier, smarter, sweeter and has a MUCH nicer coat than the doodles. She’s such a great puppy I’d get a standard poodle in a heartbeat if I wanted a non-shedding dog.

 

My aunt has a couple of rehomed doodles and my gosh do they stink. They are black, so you can't see the red fur from the yeast, but you can definitely smell it.

 

Oh wow. Okay.

 

(...) I love goldens. I think they are the most beautiful dogs with the best kid-friendly temperament for my 7 yo daughter. However, I also love having a clean house. I do not exercise every day. I have a large back yard with a creek behind it and a medium sized fenced in area that is currently overgrown, but could be re-worked to be a play area. I'm in constant inner conflict. I am leaning towards a golden and hoping that bathing once a week, doing the forceful blowing thing, and buying all the brushes will help offset the shedding.

If you love having a clean house, you might want to consider some other aspects of dog ownership, in addition to shedding. For example, when it rains, your dog is going to come into the house with wet feet and will track mud through your house. It will roll in dead leaves, then come in and shake them off all over your floor. It will swim in the creek, then come and shake water droplets all over your kitchen cabinets. It will occasionally eat stuff that will make it throw up on your nice clean floor. When its anal glands become itchy, it will scoot its butt on your best carpet. If you live in an area where there are ticks, it will bring them into your home on its coat. Not least, puppies are like human infants, in that they have no control over the muscles that regulate elimination. So, regardless of what you do, your new puppy is going to pee and poop in your house for at least two months, until it develops enough control to wait until you take it outside. Most dogs are not reliably clean in the house until they are five to six months old, so you will be cleaning puddles of urine (and worse) for a certain period of time.

(...) Could you give me your feedback on a particular doodle breeder? I'm just curious after reading so many posts about crosses on here. A doodle breeder I researched and am considering, Moss Creek Goldendoodles, has beautiful golden parents on their website with all the major health clearances. They report that a lot of their dogs go on to be therapy dogs and their Owner's FB Group members validate this claim. They seem to produce at least some calm, even tempered dogs according to the owners (There are 5000 members in the FB group). I know that the ppl on this forum say that no reputable golden breeder would ever sell their dog to a doodle breeder. So I'm curious if this is true, how they would have obtained their golden retrievers? (None of the moms that they actually proposed to me were on their website and I did not see their health clearances. However, the owner said that it was because they had not had a chance to add these moms to the website yet.) The puppies are $3500.

Short answer: this website made me want to cry.

Long answer: I own a purebred golden retriever and a purebred toy poodle and I can't for the life of me imagine why any sane person would ever want to combine these two breeds. My golden is an amazing dog. He's funny and intelligent and energetic and enthusiastic about whatever I want him to do. He's highly trainable, incredibly eager to please, extremely focused, has a nice wash-and-wear coat and loves every living creature. Sure, he can be messy in the house, but he's a sweetheart and my constant companion and I wouldn't trade him for the world. My toy poodle is also an amazing dog. He's smarter than any non-human I've ever met. He's calculating and manipulating. He can be snappy. He can't be trusted alone anywhere in the house, because he will steal whatever is there, even if it's in a tin box. He has to be with a human or in a crate; there is no middle ground with him. He's also highly trainable, once he has understood what's in it for him. He was my daughter's agility partner and they won literally everything there is to win in the sport, including several national championships. He doesn't shed, but requires six-weekly trips to the groomer ($50 each time) to keep his coat nicely trimmed, as well as daily brushing and frequent baths (otherwise he smells). When it suits him, he's a cuddly lapdog. He's hardly a sweetheart but he's such an amazing character and I love him dearly.

If you mix these two breeds, it doesn't mean you'll end up with a smaller dog that has the golden retriever personality and a non-shedding coat. That's not how it works.

My daughter was a dog training instructor for several years until she left to go to university, and some of her worst students were doodles. Incapable of focusing, poor temperaments, uncontrolled energy, etc. And most of them cost double what I paid for my lovely golden retriever.

Now, to the website you mentioned. Why did it make me want to cry? For a start: English goldendoodles? Have we really sunk that low? Are people really dumb enough to believe that doodles descended from "English cream" golden retrievers (imported from Romania in this case) are somehow superior to doodles descended from other goldens? And to pay $3,500 or more for them? Next: There is absolutely no way for prospective buyers to check any of the claims made about the health of the breeding dogs (of which there are many). Obviously the golden-poodle mixes can't be registered because they aren't purebred, but pedigrees aside, there are no links to OFA records or any other records for any of the dogs listed. Also: There are so many "immediately available" puppies on that website. These people must produce a whole lot of litters to have that many "left-overs". It's heartbreaking ... And: Schnoodles? Quote from the website: "We want the same blocky, teddy bear look as we get in our Goldendoodles, so we choose our parents carefully for that winning combination that will give us those square heads and short little noses." Note that there is no mention of choosing parents because of their nice temperaments or because they are from healthy lines with good structure, or because their trainability has been demonstrated ...

A whole website dedicated to mixed-breed pups with unpredictable traits on sale for astronomical amounts of money, able to be shipped wherever you like, at your convenience ... Beam me up, Scotty.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. But as someone who owns purebred dogs of the two breeds used to produce these doodles, I'm offended by the whole commercial doodle thing. I have nothing against mixed breed dogs; I've owned several wonderful ones in my lifetime and my daughter will be looking for a rescue/shelter dog as her next agility dog, when she finishes university. My problem is with the people who produce mixed breed dogs commercially.

Anyway. I hope you find a dog that will fit nicely into your household. I second the suggestion above that a miniature poodle (not a toy poodle) might be a good choice, if you don't mind the extensive grooming needs of its non-shedding coat.

 

Have you looked at your local Golden Retriever Rescue? An adult or older dog might be a good idea for you. You would have a good idea of their temperament and energy level, exercise needs, and you'll skip the landshark puppy phase that could be a lot to deal with for a 7 year old. You'll still have the shedding to deal with, but not the potty training. And a rescue is going to ask for a much lower fee to rehome an adult Golden.

 

It's great to hear from somebody who can support the theory with actual experience @Emmdenn
I am not even sure what the dog hair discussion is about.
We have had in turn, GR and Samoyed, Great Dane and Rottweiler,'and Akita and Lab cross.
Now Lab cross an GR, I do not see any difference in the amount of dog hair around the house.
The dogs never get bathed, get brushed every other day, never go to a groomer, and I vacuum sporadically
I consider my house fairly clean...
not once when we were deciding on taking on a dog, did shedding come up...

 

It's great to hear from somebody who can support the theory with actual experience @Emmdenn
I am not even sure what the dog hair discussion is about.
We have had in turn, GR and Samoyed, Great Dane and Rottweiler,'and Akita and Lab cross.
Now Lab cross an GR, I do not see any difference in the amount of dog hair around the house.
The dogs never get bathed, get brushed every other day, never go to a groomer, and I vacuum sporadically
I consider my house fairly clean...
not once when we were deciding on taking on a dog, did shedding come up...
View attachment 898286

Shed happens........

 

To your question as to how a doodle breeder gets the Golden to breed- they either lie, and break their contract, or they buy crappy Golden lines. There isn't a good breeder in the country who'd allow cross breeding. Since offspring are not registered, there is no need for full registration. And since the info on the parents is so vague, there's no way to verify any of it or ID them. Call name and 'clear' mean absolutely nothing. IF you can get registered names (if they were ever even registered) then you can check all those 'clear' ratings which I'd bet you are prelims IF they are even done. I lean to thinking moss creek took Cora and JoDee to Dr Wallace whoever that is as puppies and good ol Doc said they were good.. Normal cardiac also means nothing. And no eyes are reported. The using of "OFA/Wallace" when the likelihood OFA never saw these films is a lie.
Get a miniature poodle.
That'll do it for your hopes and desires around a dog, and it won't be putting dollars in the pocket of this unethical breeder.

 

Keep in mind if you decide to get a Poodle, a good groomer can keep your dog looking teddy-bear fluffy with a cute round face vs. a traditional patterned Poodle trim with a clean shaven face and shaved feet, if that traditional trim is what's putting you off about Poodles.

 

Having a dog is similar to having a kid. And being a retriever you will have dog toys everywhere because they always like to have something in their mouth. And hair will happen.

Both goldens and poodles are high energy and need exercise. Crossing them doesn’t change that. A fenced area for off leash running is a good thing for either breed. Both breeds will require some dedicated obedience training to be the easy to live with companion you might see other people have.

I am a groomer and while weekly baths, blowouts and brushing will definitely cut down on shedding, don’t think they won’t shed at all. And certain times of the year they will just shed like crazy. Puppies go through a pretty big coat blow around 8 months old or so. Intact Females will blow coat with their cycle. And they generally have 2 big sheds a year (usually spring and fall). All this to say basically don’t expect no hair, there will be hair. But you learn to live with it because goldens are so worth it! My hubby can’t stand hair so I just vacuum pretty frequently and then dogs are not allowed in the bedrooms as I have found that cuts down on the hair on his clothes. If it were up to me my dogs would sleep in the bed, but you have to have a little give and take in a marriage! Also keep in mind that a doodle or poodle will require a lot of brushing too-like way more than a golden. As well as regular professional grooming. Like minimum of every 6-8 weeks. And that would be for a very short/shaved haircut. 3-4 weeks for a longer fluffier haircut. And probably looking at prices ranging from $80 on the lower end to $200+ on the higher end per groom. A lot of that depends on where you live Midwest being a bit less than either coast.

So I went to look at the website and the info they give you on the moms is pretty worthless. Anybody can say their dogs have all those clearances and dna tests, but they fail to provide any registered names so there is no way to verify those statements. The whole website feels very glitz and glamor-ish. Set up like a business trying market something to sell. And that’s ok if that’s what you want. You just have to go into it knowing that the health risks are higher and with cross breeding you can never be sure what your dog will look or act like. And knowing that you are paying just as much or more for that uncertainty as you would for a purebred puppy with verifiable clearances and a pretty good idea of what they will look like. I prefer my puppies to come from breeders who are in it to preserve and better a breed. I prefer to have a pretty good idea of what size, temperament, coat type, structure, etc my dog will have. This is a business meant to maximize product output and sell as many puppies as possible for an income. They do a lot to sound really good, even have some vets behind them apparently. But I have learned from working at a vet clinic that most vets are pretty clueless about what makes a good breeder. (Please don’t take offense if you are one of the vets who does know more about breeders!) They seem to think it’s just about whether someone takes good care of of their dogs or not. And this is nothing against vets! They are simply not trained for that: they are trained for helping sick or injured animals and keeping healthy ones healthy.

Generally speaking I have a pretty low opinion of doodles. Their structure is a wreck-you are combining a thinner finer boned poodle with a bigger boned golden, lab, Bernese, Aussie, whatever. The structures just do not go together well. The only people I can think of who crossbreed responsibly are service dog breeders-they will often cross labs and goldens who have very similar structures to get the exact temperament they are looking for. Doodles coats are all over the place. Some have a more flat golden like coat that sheds. Most have a wavy-curly coat that definitely still sheds sometimes less, sometimes a ton. Some are tightly curled and appear to shed less like a poodle; however, they do still shed-it just gets matted in the curls before it can fall off the dog. I groom a doodle who you literally can’t do anything but shave it because of the undercoat shedding and matting in the curls. I tried once to give it a fuller haircut and just could NOT brush it out (spent 30 minutes brushing just one front leg and decided there was no way I was brushing that whole dog and the owners wouldn’t have been ok with paying what that would’ve been worth!) Most doodles are unruly, untrained, hyper idiots. I think I have groomed 2-3 out of dozens who have not tried to bite me. If you want golden temperament, don’t get a doodle. Honestly only goldens have golden temperaments, there are other breeds that come close, but they also still shed. If shedding is a deal breaker, get a poodle-I always feel like standards have the best temperament of the 3 sizes, no little dog syndrome going on, lol!

My recommendation to anyone considering a doodle is look at poodles and look at goldens (or labs, Aussies, Bernese, etc) and then go with a well-bred purebred of the breed you decide fits your lifestyle best. This forum is a good place to start learning what a good golden breeder looks like and to ask for advice on a litter. Other good options are the Golden Retriever Club of America. If you decide on a poodle or any other breed look into their AKC parent club for breeder referrals and to learn what a good breeder of that breed looks like. Don’t expect a well-bred puppy to be available right now-often the wait is at least 6-12 months.

If you like the idea of a low shedding breed other breeds to consider that are some of them quite rare are Curly coated retrievers, American Water Spaniel, Irish Water Spaniel, Otterhound, Barbet, Lagotto Romagnolo, and Portuguese Water Dog. All have different temperaments and needs so you would need to do your research. But wouldn’t it be more fun to help preserve a more rare breed than help add to the overwhelming number of doodle dogs in the world?

 

Having a dog is similar to having a kid. And being a retriever you will have dog toys everywhere because they always like to have something in their mouth. And hair will happen.

Both goldens and poodles are high energy and need exercise. Crossing them doesn’t change that. A fenced area for off leash running is a good thing for either breed. Both breeds will require some dedicated obedience training to be the easy to live with companion you might see other people have.

I am a groomer and while weekly baths, blowouts and brushing will definitely cut down on shedding, don’t think they won’t shed at all. And certain times of the year they will just shed like crazy. Puppies go through a pretty big coat blow around 8 months old or so. Intact Females will blow coat with their cycle. And they generally have 2 big sheds a year (usually spring and fall). All this to say basically don’t expect no hair, there will be hair. But you learn to live with it because goldens are so worth it! My hubby can’t stand hair so I just vacuum pretty frequently and then dogs are not allowed in the bedrooms as I have found that cuts down on the hair on his clothes. If it were up to me my dogs would sleep in the bed, but you have to have a little give and take in a marriage! Also keep in mind that a doodle or poodle will require a lot of brushing too-like way more than a golden. As well as regular professional grooming. Like minimum of every 6-8 weeks. And that would be for a very short/shaved haircut. 3-4 weeks for a longer fluffier haircut. And probably looking at prices ranging from $80 on the lower end to $200+ on the higher end per groom. A lot of that depends on where you live Midwest being a bit less than either coast.

So I went to look at the website and the info they give you on the moms is pretty worthless. Anybody can say their dogs have all those clearances and dna tests, but they fail to provide any registered names so there is no way to verify those statements. The whole website feels very glitz and glamor-ish. Set up like a business trying market something to sell. And that’s ok if that’s what you want. You just have to go into it knowing that the health risks are higher and with cross breeding you can never be sure what your dog will look or act like. And knowing that you are paying just as much or more for that uncertainty as you would for a purebred puppy with verifiable clearances and a pretty good idea of what they will look like. I prefer my puppies to come from breeders who are in it to preserve and better a breed. I prefer to have a pretty good idea of what size, temperament, coat type, structure, etc my dog will have. This is a business meant to maximize product output and sell as many puppies as possible for an income. They do a lot to sound really good, even have some vets behind them apparently. But I have learned from working at a vet clinic that most vets are pretty clueless about what makes a good breeder. (Please don’t take offense if you are one of the vets who does know more about breeders!) They seem to think it’s just about whether someone takes good care of of their dogs or not. And this is nothing against vets! They are simply not trained for that: they are trained for helping sick or injured animals and keeping healthy ones healthy.

Generally speaking I have a pretty low opinion of doodles. Their structure is a wreck-you are combining a thinner finer boned poodle with a bigger boned golden, lab, Bernese, Aussie, whatever. The structures just do not go together well. The only people I can think of who crossbreed responsibly are service dog breeders-they will often cross labs and goldens who have very similar structures to get the exact temperament they are looking for. Doodles coats are all over the place. Some have a more flat golden like coat that sheds. Most have a wavy-curly coat that definitely still sheds sometimes less, sometimes a ton. Some are tightly curled and appear to shed less like a poodle; however, they do still shed-it just gets matted in the curls before it can fall off the dog. I groom a doodle who you literally can’t do anything but shave it because of the undercoat shedding and matting in the curls. I tried once to give it a fuller haircut and just could NOT brush it out (spent 30 minutes brushing just one front leg and decided there was no way I was brushing that whole dog and the owners wouldn’t have been ok with paying what that would’ve been worth!) Most doodles are unruly, untrained, hyper idiots. I think I have groomed 2-3 out of dozens who have not tried to bite me. If you want golden temperament, don’t get a doodle. Honestly only goldens have golden temperaments, there are other breeds that come close, but they also still shed. If shedding is a deal breaker, get a poodle-I always feel like standards have the best temperament of the 3 sizes, no little dog syndrome going on, lol!

My recommendation to anyone considering a doodle is look at poodles and look at goldens (or labs, Aussies, Bernese, etc) and then go with a well-bred purebred of the breed you decide fits your lifestyle best. This forum is a good place to start learning what a good golden breeder looks like and to ask for advice on a litter. Other good options are the Golden Retriever Club of America. If you decide on a poodle or any other breed look into their AKC parent club for breeder referrals and to learn what a good breeder of that breed looks like. Don’t expect a well-bred puppy to be available right now-often the wait is at least 6-12 months.

If you like the idea of a low shedding breed other breeds to consider that are some of them quite rare are Curly coated retrievers, American Water Spaniel, Irish Water Spaniel, Otterhound, Barbet, Lagotto Romagnolo, and Portuguese Water Dog. All have different temperaments and needs so you would need to do your research. But wouldn’t it be more fun to help preserve a more rare breed than help add to the overwhelming number of doodle dogs in the world?

I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses. It's so informative. Just to post a synopsis and response here...

This issue is still sort of mind boggling to me. There are two groups of dog owners with completely different experiences and perspectives. There is you guys who I respect so much...well, those of you who offered respectful, informative posts and not misogynistic, not-funny, degrading posts...And then there are 5,200 goldendoodle owners on the Moss Creek Owner's FB page that are in love with their doodles and would never have another type of dog. They have coined the phrase "double doodling" which means that the owners loved their first doodle so much they went back and got a second doodle from MC. It's a legitimate thing. They would not go back and spend another $3500 if their dog was as terrible as everyone here says. I've spoken with several doodle owners from the site that were prior golden retriever owners but decided to get a doodle and would never go back to a golden. This is a direct quote: "We've had golden retrievers for 40 years we're obsessed with our Graham [doodle] smart lovable no shedding at all!! Goes to the groomer once every 6 weeks." "I'll take a doodle any day over the golden now." There are several posts about hip dysplasia findings in dogs, food allergies, skin allergies. The breeders host an annual "doodle romp" where hundreds of their doodle owners come from all over the US to meet together and have their dogs play together. They are on YouTube. People that have neurotic, lousy temperament dogs would not do this.

I agree with you 100% that doodles are not bettering the golden retriever breed and I understand that more now. And it makes sense that there is such a lack of consistency between doodles in every area. I guess I am just pushing back with the comment that "9/10 doodles" have poor temperaments. Poor temperament can be attributable to the specific doodle "breeder" just like with a poor golden breeder and there is clear evidence that this breeder has been successful in breeding great temperament doodles for the most part.

Goldens and Friesia > It's interesting to hear you say that GR are "a rare breed" when they are the third most common dog breed in the US. Do you mean that it is rare to find GRs that are from an ethical breeder these days?