has anyone used the clicker training method? We are taking a training class and learning to use the clicker...but I dont know how effective it is. I do the click and treat right after a command (sometimes she will do it, sometimes wont) but I think the clicking gets her more excited and she starts to bow down and jump around and bark. So...i dunno how well its going to work. I also looked at the "choke collar" approach, which I think would work well with pulling and learning to heel. I am not sure what approach to use, so just wondering what peoples experiences are.Thanks!
ourpuppy07
This sounds like a heated debate in the making 
I have taken two different dogs through a basic class in both methods. I found both work if you stick with them. Personally I found the clicker training difficult since I seemed to lack the coordination to grab the clicker and treat at the correct times : My failing not the dogs or the method. I have lost the clicker now but still find that Oakly responds to a tongue click still so I use that if I catch him doing right. Since I had learned the choke chain methods with a previous dog I noticed I brought some of those training methods over to the clicker training :doh: I will still give a quick snap on his flat collar if he starts to pull. Even without the noise of a choke collar it does redirect him enough to bring him back to heel.
Both of the obedience trainers I have used were very open minded and if a technique worked it was OK as long as it did no harm. I think any training that relies on positive reinforcement as it's basis will work. The more training tricks you have in your bag of tricks the more successful you will be.
I have taken two different dogs through a basic class in both methods. I found both work if you stick with them. Personally I found the clicker training difficult since I seemed to lack the coordination to grab the clicker and treat at the correct times : My failing not the dogs or the method. I have lost the clicker now but still find that Oakly responds to a tongue click still so I use that if I catch him doing right. Since I had learned the choke chain methods with a previous dog I noticed I brought some of those training methods over to the clicker training :doh: I will still give a quick snap on his flat collar if he starts to pull. Even without the noise of a choke collar it does redirect him enough to bring him back to heel. Both of the obedience trainers I have used were very open minded and if a technique worked it was OK as long as it did no harm. I think any training that relies on positive reinforcement as it's basis will work. The more training tricks you have in your bag of tricks the more successful you will be.
I am currently using clicker training for both of my dogs. It works wonders for them. It is all in the timing. If they sit and you click and then they start jumping around, I wouldn't give the treat. You want to make sure the correct behavior is being rewarded. It does take alot of practice but I think it does work. I taught my 9 week old to sit in two days with the clicker and i think he sits better than my 9 month old.
Oaklys Dad-I'm glad to read someone else couldn't manage the simultaneous click and treat.....not to mention trying to hang on to your dogs leash. Maybe I should have held something in my teeth!
Many people don't like the choke or prong collars because there have been cases of them causing harm when not used correctly. If used correctly as just a short tug and not a prolonged pull it works as a distraction. I use a flat nylon martingale collar on Oakly and use the short tug with it and I find it is as effective as a choke collar. Tonight I had him on heel with an unlocked Flexi Leash (flat style) and he did perfect heeling. There are dozens of training methods out there and they ALL work with certain dogs and certain owners. Your task is to find out what works best for YOU and your DOG. Don't let current fads and trends (and there are lots of them) guide you too much. Go with what works.
Don't let current fads and trends (and there are lots of them) guide you too much. Go with what works.
Sure it does- if you do it right- and from the sounds of things you're not. I don't mean that rudely!!!! But you should not be giving a command in the first place if the dog isn't ALREADY doing the behavior for you. Also, the dog needs to be loaded on the clicker. Excitement does occur, because dogs that get the clicker LOVE LOVE LOVE it... I have never met a dog it didn't work on if used *correctly* and it is very hard to get it at first. I am a dog handler with experience and it took me several years to get it right.
But you should not be giving a command in the first place if the dog isn't ALREADY doing the behavior for you. Also, the dog needs to be loaded on the clicker. Excitement does occur, because dogs that get the clicker LOVE LOVE LOVE it... I have never met a dog it didn't work on if used *correctly* and it is very hard to get it at first. I am a dog handler with experience and it took me several years to get it right.
BTW the choker can be harmful, but like the clicker, you need to learn to do it CORRECTLY...
Prongs are easier than chokes for a beginner.
You do not need to click and treat at the same time- the timing of the treat is of minimal importance. It is the timing of the CLICK that is imperative.
Prongs are easier than chokes for a beginner.
You do not need to click and treat at the same time- the timing of the treat is of minimal importance. It is the timing of the CLICK that is imperative.
For the record, one more post... hehe
Do not go outside with a boistrous dog with no training and a clicker and some food and a leash and expect anything!!!
For the first months of clicking my dog I never even had a collar on him. In fact, I never touched him
I use clicking for attention work, obedience ring heeling you'd NEVER use out on the street, freestyle dancing moves, tricks, and commands.
I do not use the clicker to teach my dog not to pull me down the sidewalk like a human sled. I use elbow grease and a prong to do that.
Some people have the patience to use PP (purely positive) training for everything- I do not. I smack the top of a covered crate if the dog howls. I prong pullers. I throw cans of Dr Pepper at dogs getting into litter boxes.
In short, a combination of methods can work depending on the desired result.
I have taught my dogs a range of tricks and agility moves and dance moves that aversive methods would virtually never NEVER work for... they are purely clicker activities... so it sure does work!!!!! It simply depends on what you're aiming for.
Do not go outside with a boistrous dog with no training and a clicker and some food and a leash and expect anything!!!
For the first months of clicking my dog I never even had a collar on him. In fact, I never touched him
I use clicking for attention work, obedience ring heeling you'd NEVER use out on the street, freestyle dancing moves, tricks, and commands.
I do not use the clicker to teach my dog not to pull me down the sidewalk like a human sled. I use elbow grease and a prong to do that.
Some people have the patience to use PP (purely positive) training for everything- I do not. I smack the top of a covered crate if the dog howls. I prong pullers. I throw cans of Dr Pepper at dogs getting into litter boxes.
In short, a combination of methods can work depending on the desired result.
I have taught my dogs a range of tricks and agility moves and dance moves that aversive methods would virtually never NEVER work for... they are purely clicker activities... so it sure does work!!!!! It simply depends on what you're aiming for.
Hi, I use clicker training and really like it...makes a lot of sense to me that a dog learns better this way...Im just gonna copy and paste this from an earlier thread...it might be useful, Im not sure...anyway...
...Im just going to add in a little video that may help...(sorry its not of a golden!) This is my 10 month old crossbreed Harry and it is showing just a really simple behaviour taught with the clicker.
So as it starts off Harry has absolutely no idea what I want to teach him, in this case all I want is for him to touch the coaster with his nose...not all that useful admittedly, but it is something that can be built on, and it is just something basic to show. So first of all I throw the coaster on the floor and as Harry has no idea what I want him to do so he starts going over old 'tricks' I have previously taught, just to see if that will work, hence the rolling over...he gets quite frustrated that I am not clicking him for anything (I know he sounds all upset by this but it is a noise we are used to from Harry, he is a very vocal boy!) So when I slyly push the coaster a little closer he then touches it and hears the magic click...thats really all it takes for him to understand and is able to link his action to the result of getting the treat...he picks it up in seconds...I can then throw the coaster further away and he still 'gets' that he has to touch the 'target' in order to get the click and then treat...like I said, a very basic thing to teach but really it is to demonstrate how the dog goes from not having a clue what I want to fully understanding what is making me click! Thats what it's all about really! You wait for the dog to do the behaviour, then tell him that it is GOOD (by clicking!), then tell him what it is called!! Like in the clip I could then put the cue word to the behaviour...so I would decide on the word I want...maybe the word 'target' or something, then he would only get a click when he has responded to the word and eventually you wouldnt need the click anymore because he understands what the word 'target' means.
I really hope that the sound and vid are matching up in youtube (sometimes it doesnt!) if the sound is 'out' then the vid is a bit useless!
...Im just going to add in a little video that may help...(sorry its not of a golden!) This is my 10 month old crossbreed Harry and it is showing just a really simple behaviour taught with the clicker.
So as it starts off Harry has absolutely no idea what I want to teach him, in this case all I want is for him to touch the coaster with his nose...not all that useful admittedly, but it is something that can be built on, and it is just something basic to show. So first of all I throw the coaster on the floor and as Harry has no idea what I want him to do so he starts going over old 'tricks' I have previously taught, just to see if that will work, hence the rolling over...he gets quite frustrated that I am not clicking him for anything (I know he sounds all upset by this but it is a noise we are used to from Harry, he is a very vocal boy!) So when I slyly push the coaster a little closer he then touches it and hears the magic click...thats really all it takes for him to understand and is able to link his action to the result of getting the treat...he picks it up in seconds...I can then throw the coaster further away and he still 'gets' that he has to touch the 'target' in order to get the click and then treat...like I said, a very basic thing to teach but really it is to demonstrate how the dog goes from not having a clue what I want to fully understanding what is making me click! Thats what it's all about really! You wait for the dog to do the behaviour, then tell him that it is GOOD (by clicking!), then tell him what it is called!! Like in the clip I could then put the cue word to the behaviour...so I would decide on the word I want...maybe the word 'target' or something, then he would only get a click when he has responded to the word and eventually you wouldnt need the click anymore because he understands what the word 'target' means.
I really hope that the sound and vid are matching up in youtube (sometimes it doesnt!) if the sound is 'out' then the vid is a bit useless!
I'd not equate clicker and prong or choker. It simply is not the same.
The clicker reeinforces positive behavior wheres both choker and prong are a somewhat "forceful" method of punishing negative/unwanted behavior.
I do not clicker with my dogs. Simply because I learned to use my voice correctly. Coming from assistance dogs that was crucial as some disabled people simply cannot use the clicker.
What a clicker really does is help "breaking down" commands into single pieces & setps. I really think it is important to take single steps. Slow steps.
I'll give you a example.
Training sit:
I take a treat in my fist, holt it close to their nose and slowly let my hand go upwards, while the dogs nose is following my fist. To follow the treat, the dog will sit down, as soon as he does I say "sit" and open my hand so he get's the treat. As long as he's chewing I pet his back (which I havn't touched before) and tell him quietly what a good sit that is. I do not hold him down. When I notice he's getting I tell him "free" (which is our "break command" to end anything - a lie down etc.). The first few days the dog will only sit for a few seconds. That's ok. With more practice he learns to sit longer.
During the first few weeks home I always have treats or a small toy in my pocket to reinforce positive behavior. Say I can see him about to chew on the sofa - I growl at my dog - the second he stops I praise them in the sweetest high pitched voice I have - depending how close I am to them they either receive a treat, or, I throw the toy across the room.
I know you cannot always just reinforce positive behavior! But I do think it's the "top choice". I reinforce good behavior positively. Once a dog has gotten the command, I will do corrections. I don't use corrections to train a new command. So rather than correcting the pull I reinforce no pulling from the beginning.
OMG - what that all understandable?
The clicker reeinforces positive behavior wheres both choker and prong are a somewhat "forceful" method of punishing negative/unwanted behavior.
I do not clicker with my dogs. Simply because I learned to use my voice correctly. Coming from assistance dogs that was crucial as some disabled people simply cannot use the clicker.
What a clicker really does is help "breaking down" commands into single pieces & setps. I really think it is important to take single steps. Slow steps.
I'll give you a example.
Training sit:
I take a treat in my fist, holt it close to their nose and slowly let my hand go upwards, while the dogs nose is following my fist. To follow the treat, the dog will sit down, as soon as he does I say "sit" and open my hand so he get's the treat. As long as he's chewing I pet his back (which I havn't touched before) and tell him quietly what a good sit that is. I do not hold him down. When I notice he's getting I tell him "free" (which is our "break command" to end anything - a lie down etc.). The first few days the dog will only sit for a few seconds. That's ok. With more practice he learns to sit longer.
During the first few weeks home I always have treats or a small toy in my pocket to reinforce positive behavior. Say I can see him about to chew on the sofa - I growl at my dog - the second he stops I praise them in the sweetest high pitched voice I have - depending how close I am to them they either receive a treat, or, I throw the toy across the room.
I know you cannot always just reinforce positive behavior! But I do think it's the "top choice". I reinforce good behavior positively. Once a dog has gotten the command, I will do corrections. I don't use corrections to train a new command. So rather than correcting the pull I reinforce no pulling from the beginning.
OMG - what that all understandable?
What I like about using a clicker (or any other reward marker) is that the dog is responsible for the learning process...he takes the risks and through trial and error figures out the problem. It does take time and patience and a bit of coordination...
For most students it is the lack of patience that leads to the frustration which can lead to a more anxious dog....if that is the case a clicker isnt for you (yet)....it would be time to find a clicker mentor!
I use whatever works for the specific dog -
If you have a puller then a prong or choke can break through all of the other self-rewarding enironmental static of being outdoors and pulling to gain some focus so you can then reward and reinfoce the good behavior....when there is some civility on the leash, then I get out the clicker to perfect the positioning of the dog in relationship to me...
As others have said the clicker is just a training tool (one of many in the toolbox)- the ultimate goal is to get to the point where you dont need it, or any other tool ...that the verbal 'good dog' is the reward for the dog...
For most students it is the lack of patience that leads to the frustration which can lead to a more anxious dog....if that is the case a clicker isnt for you (yet)....it would be time to find a clicker mentor!
I use whatever works for the specific dog -
If you have a puller then a prong or choke can break through all of the other self-rewarding enironmental static of being outdoors and pulling to gain some focus so you can then reward and reinfoce the good behavior....when there is some civility on the leash, then I get out the clicker to perfect the positioning of the dog in relationship to me...
As others have said the clicker is just a training tool (one of many in the toolbox)- the ultimate goal is to get to the point where you dont need it, or any other tool ...that the verbal 'good dog' is the reward for the dog...
Oh heck I wasn't equating the two at all- if you were referring to me Simply saying I don't use the clicker for everything- but it absolutely works
HAHA okay the Dr Pepper thing... if a dog has his head in a litter box (mine are covered boxes) I take whatever projectile object is within my reach (often a can of soda or beer, hopefully not opened) and throw it hard into the side of the box. NOT the dog, and I've never accidentally hit the dog. I'm a good throw. Maybe it's all those years with retrievers! It scares the you know what out of the dog, meanwhile I say "WOW! What was THAT!" and the dog usually never goes near the box again LOL
Simply saying I don't use the clicker for everything- but it absolutely works HAHA okay the Dr Pepper thing... if a dog has his head in a litter box (mine are covered boxes) I take whatever projectile object is within my reach (often a can of soda or beer, hopefully not opened) and throw it hard into the side of the box. NOT the dog, and I've never accidentally hit the dog. I'm a good throw. Maybe it's all those years with retrievers! It scares the you know what out of the dog, meanwhile I say "WOW! What was THAT!" and the dog usually never goes near the box again LOL
Yes, it works. Puppies are puppies, they're going to get excited no matter what method you use.
It's relatively easy to use clicker training-type methods to teach a puppy to walk nicely on a leash, just stop moving forward whenever she starts to pull, and click/treat for walking on a loose leash.
It's relatively easy to use clicker training-type methods to teach a puppy to walk nicely on a leash, just stop moving forward whenever she starts to pull, and click/treat for walking on a loose leash.
I totally agree. When my wife isn't home, I have the same problem. Maybe we can start a beer fetching thread?
YES!!! We should!!
What a hoot....
It would be cool to compare notes and training logs <Heaven help me...I am the geek my kids think I am...>
What a hoot....
It would be cool to compare notes and training logs <Heaven help me...I am the geek my kids think I am...>
Absolutely, clicker training works! I first learned to use the clicker about 10 years ago at a freestyle obedience seminar. I tought Flirty what the clicker meant within 5 minutes. Just click and give a treat, over and over. Then I just waited for her to do SOMETHING so I could use my new found training method. She moved a paw - click and treat. Within 15 minutes she was deliberately lifting the paw to get a treat. Every time Flirty came and sat in front of me she lifted that same paw! She did this right up to the day she dies. Clicker training is VERY effective and it stays with the dog. When I got Jazzy last May I immediately started teaching her the clicker. That was at 8 weeks old. By the time she was 3 months old she would watch my face when I said "watch me". No matter what was going on around her she would watch me. Still does every time I ask her to! Timing is everything! You must click at the precise moment the behavior is given. You can treat after the click. You don't have to click and treat simultaneously --- click then treat within 10 seconds. Time enough to grab the treat from your treat bag. The click is the reward - that must be timed at the right moment so they know what they did to receive the click. After learning the clicker they KNOW a treat is going to follow the click so the treat can be given within a short time after the click. Clicker training is fun - for you and for the dog and it is very rewarding as they learn very quickly. You don't even have to say anything - just click and treat. There are some great clicker training books out there too. Go on Dogwise.com and search "clicker training".
Jazzys Mom
Jazzys Mom
AWESOME. I'm starting to like the clicker. Especially after watching the video.
One thing. The clicker is basically just a sound right> You have to keep giving it treats when they're young after you click so they can associate the click with treat?
So later on when you click, they know they did something good?
Oh and where can you buy a clicker...?
One thing. The clicker is basically just a sound right> You have to keep giving it treats when they're young after you click so they can associate the click with treat?
So later on when you click, they know they did something good?
Oh and where can you buy a clicker...?
You keep following the click with the treat. The click is just a sound that marks exactly what gets the treat.
There are several online retailers you might be able to get clickers from, but you can also use a short word like "yes!" if you can't find a clicker.
There are several online retailers you might be able to get clickers from, but you can also use a short word like "yes!" if you can't find a clicker.
I'm sure there are clickers in Hong Kong. Heard a lot about them.
And before ACC talked about using the clicker CORRECTLY.
Are there any guides to use the clicker correctly? Because I'm still alittle clueless on the clicker...
And before ACC talked about using the clicker CORRECTLY.
Are there any guides to use the clicker correctly? Because I'm still alittle clueless on the clicker...
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