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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Every breeder I've personally talked to for a puppy usually requires a neuter around the 18 month mark in their contract (although I haven't talked to my current one about this). I admit this is maybe easier to get around than I thought- since I didn't end up buying a puppy from them, I never asked if they'd allow keeping the dog intact. The reason is this study from last year When Should You Neuter Your Dog to Avoid Health Risks?, an extensive decade-long study of thousands of dogs. It suggests, among other things, that keeping a female golden intact drastically reduces the chances of many cancers (with high statistical significance). Now, I understand there are lots of factors, and also that correlation is not causation. But regardless, is this a choice breeders would let owners make?
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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I don't. I actually recommend never neutering males, but require they wait until the dog is at least 2 years old. For females, I suggest after 2 and prior to 5 years old for spaying (mostly due to the risk of pyo, unintended pregnancies, and the reduced risk of certain specific kinds of cancer). The reason: overall health balancing. I try to sell only to responsible buyers, so I don't worry about intentional breedings or carelessness to the point of high risk of accidental breeding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't. I actually recommend never neutering males, but require they wait until the dog is at least 2 years old. For females, I suggest after 2 and prior to 5 years old for spaying (mostly due to the risk of pyo, unintended pregnancies, and the reduced risk of certain specific kinds of cancer). The reason: overall health balancing. I try to sell only to responsible buyers, so I don't worry about intentional breedings or carelessness to the point of high risk of accidental breeding.
I feel like you'd have to be so out of tune with your female to have an accidental breeding... like oops I didn't notice she's in heat.
 

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Kate
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I think if you are buying a dog on a limited registration.... gauge the room before you bring it up.

What I've observed talking to some people about it....

Some breeders don't have a problem hearing about it 1-2 years later when the dog is mellow and not causing issues and you have shown yourself to be a good owner. But when it's the first thing you mention when contacting the breeder it might cause them to squint extra at you....? Especially if you are getting a girlie.

Oops breeding - what I've heard are more likely to happen if the boy dog is owned by the same person, is a family dog, close neighbor's dog, play buddy, etc.

With breeders I know it happened to - it's girls who do what they can to get to the boys.... 🤷‍♂️ One breeder had golden retriever X very specific and rare had only just been introduced to AKC puppies by accident. The worst part was the golden side was a boy that she never intended to breed because he failed elbows. And he was the favorite for all the girls. >.< Drove her nuts and she finally neutered him after the 2nd oops breeding. That 2nd oops - the golden girl refused to have anything to do with the chosen boy (big stud), but she managed to get out of the house and break into the kennel building where this boy was being kept. <= Why I could never have girls. I hear horror stories like that combined with the other side where folks say boys will smell a girl in season up to 9 miles away (not true, but it is true they will go nuts if a family dog is in season). :D
 

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Every breeder I've personally talked to for a puppy usually requires a neuter around the 18 month mark in their contract
I made the mistake of buying a pup on limited registration, never again.
A mistake I will never make is buying a pup with a contract mandating an unnecessary surgery.
 

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My breeder actually recommends that we keep males intact. If we must neuter, we are contractually required to wait 2 years or the health guarantee is void. For females, the contract requires waiting for 2 years before a full spay and an OSS is accepted too. Because of pyo, some kind of spay is required for girls.
 

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Some breeders sell on limited but don't require altering.
They won't sell anything to me and I doubt they even care. ;)
 

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I buy males and have to this day never bred one. I have also never neutered one. I make all of my concerns known before going on a list for a puppy. I'm very honest and up front. With my last purchase I stated that I did not want to sign a contract with a neuter clause in it. I, for health reasons, do not like to neuter my males. I was met with complete respect and it was a non issue.
 

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I know of some folks with pups from my breeder who have never neutered their males and she is ok with that. Her contract does state that pets should be neutered or spayed, but will make exceptions for those that have proven themselves trustworthy and understand the implications of having an intact male. For females, less exceptions are made because owners generally don't ask for them as they often do not enjoy dealing with a female in season. I actually can't think of any exceptions she's made for people with females on limited.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think if you are buying a dog on a limited registration.... gauge the room before you bring it up.

What I've observed talking to some people about it....

Some breeders don't have a problem hearing about it 1-2 years later when the dog is mellow and not causing issues and you have shown yourself to be a good owner. But when it's the first thing you mention when contacting the breeder it might cause them to squint extra at you....? Especially if you are getting a girlie.

Oops breeding - what I've heard are more likely to happen if the boy dog is owned by the same person, is a family dog, close neighbor's dog, play buddy, etc.

With breeders I know it happened to - it's girls who do what they can to get to the boys.... 🤷‍♂️ One breeder had golden retriever X very specific and rare had only just been introduced to AKC puppies by accident. The worst part was the golden side was a boy that she never intended to breed because he failed elbows. And he was the favorite for all the girls. >.< Drove her nuts and she finally neutered him after the 2nd oops breeding. That 2nd oops - the golden girl refused to have anything to do with the chosen boy (big stud), but she managed to get out of the house and break into the kennel building where this boy was being kept. <= Why I could never have girls. I hear horror stories like that combined with the other side where folks say boys will smell a girl in season up to 9 miles away (not true, but it is true they will go nuts if a family dog is in season). :D
Yeah that was exactly my thought. Definitely don't wanna put anyone on the spot.
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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I feel like you'd have to be so out of tune with your female to have an accidental breeding... like oops I didn't notice she's in heat.
I think it mostly happens when they have an intact male in the house, or they leave their bitch in season out in the back yard and some opportunistic boy comes buy and gets a whiff. :D

We've had one "oops" breeding in all our years and with all our intact dogs. (One or two folks from this forum actually have a puppy from that litter.) And that wasn't even our fault. We were leaving on a trip and boarded some of our dogs with our former handler. Of course, we made sure to tell her that our bitch was in season, and she reassured us. Well, someone working for her apparently didn't get the message, and let her "play" (apparently unattended) with another male Golden. Five weeks later we noticed she was getting fat. Cut her food, she got fatter. So we got suspicious and had an ultrasound done. Sure enough, she was pregnant. We had to track down the sire and identify him, pay to have his owner get all his clearances, and do DNA testing on all the puppies to ensure he was the only sire. And our girl developed mild hydrops and had to be spayed. It was a nightmare, and we lost a really nice producing female out of it (dam of my current heart dog, Deuce), because we had to spay her. I'm still irritated about it to this day. And the handler still owes me a breeding she promised in compensation but never delivered.

But mostly I think it's careless owners who don't try, not owners who are oblivious to their girl being in season, though with some girls you can miss it entirely if you're not very observant.
 
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I think it mostly happens when they have an intact male in the house, or they leave their bitch in season out in the back yard and some opportunistic boy comes buy and gets a whiff. :D

We've had one "oops" breeding in all our years and with all our intact dogs. (One or two folks from this forum actually have a puppy from that litter.) And that wasn't even our fault. We were leaving on a trip and boarded some of our dogs with our former handler. Of course, we made sure to tell her that our bitch was in season, and she reassured us. Well, someone working for her apparently didn't get the message, and let her "play" (apparently unattended) with another male Golden. Five weeks later we noticed she was getting fat. Cut her food, she got fatter. So we got suspicious and had an ultrasound done. Sure enough, she was pregnant. We had to track down the sire and identify him, pay to have his owner get all his clearances, and do DNA testing on all the puppies to ensure he was the only sire. And our girl developed mild hydrops and had to be spayed. It was a nightmare, and we lost a really nice producing female out of it (dam of my current heart dog, Deuce), because we had to spay her. I'm still irritated about it to this day. And the handler still owes me a breeding she promised in compensation but never delivered.

But mostly I think it's careless owners who don't try, not owners who are oblivious to their girl being in season, though with some girls you can miss it entirely if you're not very observant.
Another thing we have in common- my only oops litter in all these years was at the hands of my handler.. had to do the same hoops and never saw her agreed upon show for free for letting my puppy bitch get bred.
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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Another thing we have in common- my only oops litter in all these years was at the hands of my handler.. had to do the same hoops and never saw her agreed upon show for free for letting my puppy bitch get bred.
It's because I'm stalking you and doing everything you do. You remember the other night when you heard that weird sound and looked out your window but no one was there? Yeah, that was me. :D
 

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It's because I'm stalking you and doing everything you do. You remember the other night when you heard that weird sound and looked out your window but no one was there? Yeah, that was me. :D
Every raccoon she thought she heard but couldn't find?
 

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It's because I'm stalking you and doing everything you do. You remember the other night when you heard that weird sound and looked out your window but no one was there? Yeah, that was me. :D
I thought it was the naughty little birds who keep building nests in my popup bags and gutters.... whew. What a relief- it was just you, from across the country, making a racket and waking me when I get so little sleep as it is. Wish you'd come in and turned on the auto coffee so I wouldn't have to step over a baby gate getting it turned on so I could just stay awake for the day. Hate that 10min before it's ready when I had it preset for 4AM and it's 330...
 
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is this a choice breeders would let owners make?
I'm not a breeder but we have had a couple litters while under the mentorship and guidance of a couple real GR breeders. We did not require that the puppies be neutered/spayed. We suggested if they wanted that done to at least wait until the puppy was grown. We would also give them information on the subject and tell them to read up on the current science and make their own decision on it.

Regarding oops. We've not had that happen. But having intact males and females in the house presents a problem for us at times. Our Mr. B. has been at the breeders house for that last month because Pearl is/was in heat. Mr. B, who knows what his job is, goes absolutely bonkers when there is a female in heat near by so he has to go spend time at his other house for a while. :)
 

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I sold my last litter with a minimum age to spay/neuter but not a requirement to do so. I have discussed with each family and will continue to do so. Ultimately, I expect females to be spayed because of pyometra risk and the heat cycles and I hope that most will leave their male puppies intact. I definitely don't want any of them to be altered at a young age.
 
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