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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello I’ve already posted a few times on here but I’m trying to decide between two breeders. One of which is Berryhill Retrievers and the other is Carova Golden Retrievers. It seems to me that Carova is the more well known reputable breeder and on my other post it seemed there were a few issues with Berryhill. But Berryhill was recommended to me by another breeder. Also Carovas would cost about a total of 3500 and Berryhill around 1800. I’m new to this and I’m not sure how to check health clearances/if I’m doing it right. I just want to make sure I’m making the right choice. Is the higher cost worth it?? If anyone can help that would be great thanks!

Berryhill: http://berryhillretrievers.bravesites.com/
Carova: https://carovagoldenretrievers.com/
 

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I don't find clearances on the Berryhill bitch- BerryHill None of Your Beeswax (honey).
So that one is for me a complete no-go.

I had some issues reading through the Carova site, and figuring out who actually owned the bitches- I left the site still unsure if it was a fair co-own or one of those guardian things. The dogs appear to have all their clearances, though I would point out that neither sire nor dam of the stud dog on the litter had an elbow clearance, maternal grandparents no clearances and really just spotty in general on the whole bottom half of his pedigree. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1304624 only you know if $3k is too much for your budget- it strikes me as a high price for puppies out of unfinished dam without generations of clearances both sideways and back on both sire and dam personally but that's my own opinion.
 

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I agree with prism on Berryhill, and I find it pretty odd that it seems every girl and a couple of boys listed the Carova site are ALL sired by GCH Harborview Under Construction if I'm read that correctly. One dog should not be the complete backbone of a breeding program imo. Not sure if go with Carova. Though I've heard nothing but good things about Harborview
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't find clearances on the Berryhill bitch- BerryHill None of Your Beeswax (honey).
So that one is for me a complete no-go.

I had some issues reading through the Carova site, and figuring out who actually owned the bitches- I left the site still unsure if it was a fair co-own or one of those guardian things. The dogs appear to have all their clearances, though I would point out that neither sire nor dam of the stud dog on the litter had an elbow clearance, maternal grandparents no clearances and really just spotty in general on the whole bottom half of his pedigree. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1304624 only you know if $3k is too much for your budget- it strikes me as a high price for puppies out of unfinished dam without generations of clearances both sideways and back on both sire and dam personally but that's my own opinion.
Should I ask the breeder the reason for not having elbow clearances or should I just start looking elsewhere?
 

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The breeder is not the owner of the stud dog...
there isn't any reason- either they failed or they didn't do them- by 2001, I'd guess more than 75% had elbow clearances if they were even remotely involved in dogs. It became a part of the Code in 2000. If you click on the link and scroll down, where you see hips and no elbows, or V/V, by now 20 years later it is an obvious fail because even remote country vets know to do both nowadays. Where you see a word (such as normal) in the elbow column and nothing in the hip column that's a preliminary check and that dog almost certainly failed preliminary hips. Where you see a two different dates w hips and elbows that means they had one checked and then repeated, one can presume to get a better rating. But as was said the other day in one of Dana's threads, you really want to find good clearances 10 gen back. Three gen back at a bare minimum. Sometimes it might be worth gambling if price is an issue and pricing is way less on the spotty clearances pedigree puppies.
 

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Thank you for your thoughts on my Carova site. I will be reworking it to make things clearer for all searching . Please feel free to reach out with anything you have questions about .
 

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The stud dog in the upcoming Carova litter is missing his elbow clearance. He has not produced bad elbows per stud owner. When planning a breeding , we need to look at everything the dog has to offer . In this case , thirteen years old and healthy. This boy cleared his Cerf with no breeder options can breed naturally and still play fetch . I filtered in his wonderful temperament so he became the full package for me.
 

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do they have a webcam so you can check on the puppies 24 7. and how the breeder is caring for them. I'm assuming for $3500 u want a show dog?
 

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do they have a webcam so you can check on the puppies 24 7. and how the breeder is caring for them. I'm assuming for $3500 u want a show dog?
Way more goes into what makes a 'show dog' than just the price of the dog. You'll learn on this forum that puppies kept as show prospects cost just the same as a puppy from the same litter going to a pet home. Most if not ALL performance dogs are first and foremost family pets.
 

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The stud dog in the upcoming Carova litter is missing his elbow clearance. He has not produced bad elbows per stud owner. When planning a breeding , we need to look at everything the dog has to offer . In this case , thirteen years old and healthy. This boy cleared his Cerf with no breeder options can breed naturally and still play fetch . I filtered in his wonderful temperament so he became the full package for me.
I'm not trying to be ugly and that's fine if that's your choice but your site says:

"1. All dogs being used in the Carova breeding program are required to have all health clearances proposed by the Golden Retriever Club of America. At this time the following are required and should be verified through Orthtopedic Foundation For Animals.

Thyroid, Cardiac, Eye Clearances ( done yearly), Hips/ Elbows (done at age two and no earlier known as prelims)"

Even though he is the stud it seems to me like he is a dog "being used in the Carova breeding program" and that you have not lived up to your original goals that comply with GRCA COE for breeders
 

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“do they have a webcam so you can check on the puppies 24 7. and how the breeder is caring for them. I'm assuming for $3500 u want a show dog?”

This made me chuckle !! I had no idea my puppies were going for 3500!!!
I agree, if paying 3500 I should be sending them a nightly meal and a web cam show .
 

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“I'm not trying to be ugly and that's fine if that's your choice but your site says:
"1. All dogs being used in the Carova breeding program are required to have all health clearances proposed by the Golden Retriever Club of America. At this time the following are required and should be verified through Orthtopedic Foundation For Animals.
Thyroid, Cardiac, Eye Clearances ( done yearly), Hips/ Elbows (done at age two and no earlier known as prelims)"
Even though he is the stud it seems to me like he is a dog "being used in the Carova breeding program" and that you have not lived up to your original goals that comply with GRCA COE for breeders”

Oh goodness! I did not think you were being rude at all! You are correct in everything that you stated. If you read through the GRCA Code of Ethics. They mention “Other Considerations “
I considered and stand by my decision.

There is a saying that has been around for ages. We don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”.
 

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I think it makes a big difference I don't know about you but I like to see how the puppies are being cared for and how they are developing. You also know that the breeder has nothing to hide the cam is on 24 7.
 

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A puppy cam would never be a make or break for me. It would be fun to be able to watch them growing over the 8 weeks, but if I didn't trust my breeder 100% to be caring for them and raising them well, that would mean I chose the wrong breeder.
 

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I think it makes a big difference I don't know about you but I like to see how the puppies are being cared for and how they are developing. You also know that the breeder has nothing to hide the cam is on 24 7.
As folks here know, we have a puppy cam 24/7. But I will tell you it is a big PITA sometimes. We have had more than one inadvertent nakedness violation when we've had to get in the puppy box in quick order. And it means we get constant emails, texts, and PMs about every little thing going on with the pups, and that can be unpleasant. I remember wanting to shut down the cam when we got a dozen or so messages saying, "Blue boy is stuck under the pig rail and can't get out!" when we were sitting right there watching him and letting him deal with it. There's a ton of uninvited judgment and criticism that comes with a puppy cam. Plus, sometimes you're dealing with an emergency as it's occurring and you're not sure what the right and wrong thing to do is, and it's even worse when you have the entire freaking world second guessing you in real time.

It's not on the puppy cam, but I have sometimes posted videos of things we do with puppies; e.g., early neurological training, woods walks, temperament testing, etc., and those are far more educational and indicative of how we rear pups than what you see on the puppy cam.

That said, we have a puppy cam anyway. We think it's fun. We're proud of how we rear pups. And we take pride in the fact that our puppy cam is shown at Children's Hospital Los Angeles and the Sloan Kettering Cancer Hospital in New York, and is seen all around the world. We get messages from people watching in Hong Kong, France, England, Australia, South America, and Thailand. It brings a little cuteness and joy to people's lives, and we like that.

But I don't think a puppy cam tells you much about how a breeder rears their puppies. People here have watched our puppy cam. Perhaps they can say whether they learn anything about us from it. I mean, it's entertaining, puppies are cute, and if you're buying a pup from the litter you get to watch him/her grow, but beyond that I don't know how much utility a puppy cam has in breeder evaluation. Most of the hard work happens out of view of the puppy cam. Weighing the pups daily, charting everything about them, tube feeding, worming, examinations, vaccinations, dealing with problems, and everything that shows a conscientious breeder happens off-camera.
 

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My breeder didn't have a puppy cam but I have like 100+ photos of the litter as they were raised from day 1 to the day I picked up Lana. I've watched Dana's puppy cam too. But I know without the cam that she is doing her best to raise the pups. I cannot imagine NEEDING a 24/7 cam to trust that my breeder isn't doing anything untoward. I want their focus and attention on those puppies. Not on answering all the text messages or IMs or DMs, PMs, etc that comes with having that sort of visibility. Raising a litter for 8 weeks is HARD! I've only visited a handful of times but I know (some of) the work that goes on behind the scenes. It doesn't all happen in the whelping box.
 
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