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I think njb might be concerned about the possibility of bad/irresponsible breeding given what she's going through with Cosmo. Not saying that he was necessarily badly bred, but it is a lot of responsibility to make sure all the dogs go to amazing homes, so they don't end up being abused like Cosmo.
 
I am trying to not get put on probation....:)

So here goes...I don't think when people get a puppy they intend to be irresponsible owners, BUT--what is that saying about the path to hell is paved with good intentions?

My biggest gripe of all is it is the dog that ends up paying the price because we humans act like knuckleheads.

I am stopping now before I get carried away.
 
Marley Love is correct--I do have to say that doing rescue work has really changed my perspective. I know most dogs stories are not as bad as some of the ones we get in--but for as bad as Cosmo's story is there are dogs with histories much worse. The people that had owned Woody all his life, left him tied to the front door of the vets office with a note....take him.

Unfortunately when the puppy leaves your house--you just can't know what will happen. IF I were to have breed my girl--no puppy would leave my house without having a microchip first.
 
2. Yes it was a basic question, but holy sh#t ( +/- feedback) we were just testing the waters in a dog forummmmmm.
Yes, but you opened up a can of worms by adding the statement, "We are not very happy about doing this." Of course that's going to get the response of, "Then why do it??" I think if you want neutral, fact-based answers, then you have to phrase your question in a way that's not going to get people all riled up :)
 
Lost in Greg's anger towards “show” people is the fact that a progesterone test is the best way to determine when a bitch is ready to be bred. Flagging and day 12 are meaningless. The way to ensure a big litter is to breed at the proper time. I know a progesterone test is not something you have in the kitchen knife drawer, but it is one way to do it.

Now Greg (and his minions) you don’t know it, but you really stepped in it last night. You can’t smell it, but you’ve been tracking it all over the living room carpet all night. Look now at the bottom of your shoes, because it is there. DelmarvaGold is one of the few members (if not the only) who participates in both field and conformation events. She has different dogs for these two different events. If you could see past the end of your nose, you would have realized that. Why would she be snobbish towards and event in which she participates? It is in fact you that are so caught up in defending your event, that you were being arrogant. Not only that, your continued attack (on a lady) is just down right mean.

I’m sure you are feeling very smug right now, but the fact remains, that you not behaving as a gentleman. You read stuff into her original post that was just not there, and then you reacted to it. I've seen you do the very same thing many times.

The questions she asked have been asked many times before on this forum, and I’ve never seen such a reaction from you. I personally think you should be embarrassed, but I’ll bet you are incapable of experiencing that feeling. I know, The temptation to be an internet troll is much stronger.

I've had you on ignore for a long time because of your constant attacks and reaction to "show" people. Her response on this forum was a result of your continued insulting treament of people that don't participate in your event.

No, go ahead and have more fun at my expense. This could easily last another 12 hours or so.
 
no.. I did not attack show people.. but I do get tired of hearing about looks being so **** important..
and her response was that she didnt know why she bothered posting...like the rest of us are too dumb to understand...
people that get pets do not need expensive pedigree laden dogs whether they be show or field.. what they need are healthy goldens with good tempraments..
her response was snobbish.. and not helpful to the person that started the thread... and you guys think that running a junior hunt test is some kinda big deal.. that is for puppies..
yeah, saying she doesnt know why she bothers is a very very snobbish comment....
you may not like it, but we know nothing about this person and her dog.. she may have a very nice animal..
there is nothing in this world wrong with "good" pet quality.. thats what most of them are.. instead, we should try and direct people toward health and temprament..
I think i made it very clear that the hunting instinct and athletic ability was somthing that I wanted... I did not try and push those qualities on anyone else or belittle what she was doing..
chase you off the forum??? lol.. man..kinda thin skinned arn't you... I think you need to point out exactly where that attempt was made instead of just throwing out a blanket statement like that..
 
I am the one who posted about showing not being a purpose, and that has nothing to do with Greg, though I DO agree with his statement in this thread regarding breeding.

My post about showing not being a purpose wasn't directly aimed at Delmarva alone, nor was it an attack on any PERSON, but more at the general attitude I personally have found in the ring- that the only worthy dogs are show dogs. I have seen what dog shows do to dogs. Maybe not Goldens YET but there are many breeds where a show bred specimen is not a suitable pet. That, IMO, is tragic, since at the end of the day the ultimate purpose for any dog should be as a pet.

My point being that it's ALL a load of hogwash. Breed ch is probably the most meaningless and subjective title available for dogs. I like to win as much as the next girl, and the odd time my dog won that I am certain was on his merits, and not politics, genuinely pleased me. Sure, it's fun. But I'm very frustrated with people (not necessarily YOU) who use showing as a license to breed the crap out of their dogs and everyone thinks it's okay.

If the same person bred half as many dogs, in the same responsible manner, but bred more moderate, old fashioned goldens and did not show them, s/he would be dragged through the mud.
 
Mutts are NOT necessarily healthier than purebreds. Statistically, records are not kept of different groups/families of mutts, so proving this is virtually impossible.

That said, plenty of mutts suffer from hip dysplasia, heart disease, and any of the myriad of conditions that purebreds suffer from. Unknown parentage and poor breeding and and complete lack of selection, combined with probable poor socialization, low quality food, and dubious beginnings all work against mongrel puppies.

Some of the most unhealthy dogs are the designer dogs which are, of course, mutts. One unhealthy, low grade purebred bred to another does not equate health (two wrongs don't make a right).
 
no.. I did not attack show people.. but I do get tired of hearing about looks being so **** important..
and her response was that she didnt know why she bothered posting...like the rest of us are too dumb to understand...
people that get pets do not need expensive pedigree laden dogs whether they be show or field.. what they need are healthy goldens with good tempraments..
her response was snobbish.. and not helpful to the person that started the thread... and you guys think that running a junior hunt test is some kinda big deal.. that is for puppies..
yeah, saying she doesnt know why she bothers is a very very snobbish comment....
you may not like it, but we know nothing about this person and her dog.. she may have a very nice animal..
there is nothing in this world wrong with "good" pet quality.. thats what most of them are.. instead, we should try and direct people toward health and temprament..
I think i made it very clear that the hunting instinct and athletic ability was somthing that I wanted... I did not try and push those qualities on anyone else or belittle what she was doing..
chase you off the forum??? lol.. man..kinda thin skinned arn't you... I think you need to point out exactly where that attempt was made instead of just throwing out a blanket statement like that..
Not once did I say anything about looks! That was you...go back and read your own post. You made a smart comment about a wide head being the only thing I breed for. My comment was not snobbish. The only reason I said why do I bother is because YOU always come back with your same old tired comments about "kitchen litters" . Temperament and health are very important but they are NOT the only thing that makes up a well bred litter....and yes most of my puppies go to pet homes.

And for an AKC licensed judge to say that JH is for puppies and not a big deal is extremely narrowminded. Surely that way of thinking is not something the AKC would like their judges to promote. It's a start and I am very proud of what I do with my dogs.

And as for the original poster...when he/she answered my question all I got was yes, yes, yes, blah blah blah. ANd Greg, just how do you know that this person obviously cares about his/her dog and is not in it for the money? I saw nothing in the original post that could possibly leave you to jump to that conclusion.
 
Now I am gonna have to go back and re read the whole thread...

BUT--IMHO--if both parents don't have health clearances you should not breed and if you can't afford or won't pay for the health tests--you REALLY should not breed.

Responsible breeders do this, responsible breeders are not part of the problem.
 
Maybe the libary & my brother (40 years of breeding goldens) would be a better approach. I will consult with him on every move, thanks again for the positive posts.
If your brother has been breeding goldens for 40 years I'm wondering why on earth you decided to jump on a forum and ask a breeding question when you apparently have a knowledgable person to ask.

And no this is not snobbish or rude or anything else. It's a valid question.
 
Like I said Greg, have at it. I've just given you another 12 hours of boorish behavior that you can participate in.

You may believe that conformation is just a beauty contest, but it is not. Our show dogs participate in a military style physical training, which I'm sure far exceeds anything that Dixie does. If you could get your hands on Jesse, you'd find that he is in fact the canine equivalent of Arnold Schwarzenegger. While doing that, we still find time to participate in “puppy” field events.

Look, I don't want to get into a back and forth with you (I’m getting ready to put you back on ignore). But DelmarvaGold did not say anything about appearance. You read something into it that is simply not there.

All I ask you act like an adult (and possibly a gentleman), and leave it alone. You misunderstood her question, and could not resist going into defensive mode. Like I said, you’ve done it with me also, and I’ve always had the good sense to ignore you and avoid your troll-like trap.

You may feel that this is a good brawl, but it has become nothing more then piling on, and you are the ring-leader. I wonder if you participated in this same sort of behavior at the one field event (according to the AKC) that you judged?
 
Sorry to disagree but that is not "as good a reason as any" to breed.
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother posting at all.
You guys have fun and keep vrocco1 on his toes. For me, I am a bit too busy to try and help by offering advice to people who obviously do not want it.
Take care,
Sue Rocco
Delmarva Goldens
Member:
GRCA, SRC, CGRC, PVGRC

everyone has different opinions and not everyone is going to agree. Everyone is not going to take your advice or any one else's all the time. But when someone posts a question they are seeking advice and when we respond they get answers they can choose to use or not to use. But the good thing is the advice is out there. The person that posted may not take the advice but someone else who is reading it today or next year may take it. The more information people have the better the decisions they can make.
 
If your brother has been breeding goldens for 40 years I'm wondering why on earth you decided to jump on a forum and ask a breeding question when you apparently have a knowledgable person to ask.
And no this is not snobbish or rude or anything else. It's a valid question.

I took this as one of those just because you've talked to one expert doesn't mean it hurts to talk to another.

Or it could be simply that brother is a know it all that just says what to do no explanation. On here when people tell you what to do they tend to give reasons why. Or maybe he just wants to make sure what his brother is telling him is accurate especially if that is where the male is coming from.
 
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