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With Ruby, I didn't know anything and just started doing JH tests when she could do JH work. We picked up a lot of bad habits along the way (because she is my first) and now I'm not sure if I have the patience to retrain her to do senior work (she got her WCX last summer, so she *can* do all the SH stuff but blinds although the honor will forever be our nemesis).

Piper (6 months) is going to go through Evan's "program" and should definitely get an SH and maybe an MH someday. I had always planned to do JH tests her first summer, but then started wondering if I need to get her trained further along (doing SH/MH work or at a certain point in the "program") before starting to do JH tests. The reason I wonder this is because lots of people train all the way through before going into the novice ring in obedience and to some extent agility (both of which we also do). Is this common with field too? I guess if we train that far, we could just skip JH and go directly to SH (funny how you can do that with field but nothing else).

So what do you all think? Does doing JH work before you have reached a certain point in your field program likely to be detrimental to the program or teach the dog bad habits? What must YOUR dog know before starting tests-FF, go straight thru cover, angle entries/returns, etc.?

So, Evan, just how long DOES it take to train a dog? (PS I read over at RTF, too!).
 

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I shoot, they fetch.
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With my first dog with whom I did hunt tests, I had just trained for Junior. He was force fetched, in so far as picking up on command was concerned, but did not have any handling skills, and no water force or swimby. As a result he learned some bad habits that have been difficult to overcome once I realized he loved birds and marks well enough to do more. Let's just say that one of his nicknames is "You Cheating B******D!" He's gotten his Am WCX, and Cdn WCI, and was close to getting his CDN WCX (went out on ...the water blind!) and may eventually be reliable enough to run SH. But it has been a lot of work. That said I have learned so much!!!

Because of that experience I decided not to run my girl in Junior until after she was done swimby, channel blinds, decheating, and progressing from the pattern field to doing long cold blinds with minimal factors. She was also steady and reliably doing straightforward doubles. In doing so I had set good habits as far as honesty in water was concerned, and had the tools to help if she got in trouble on a mark. She got her Cdn and Am'n JH's easily in her first summer of tests, as well as her Cdn WC, and WCI. Having done the handling work came in handy on her WCI as her water memory bird drifted into some cover and I was able to cast her over and onto the bird. (We are allowed to handle on a mark in WCI and WCX in Cdn tests.) So within 4 weeks she had earned the WC, JH and then WCI, and the last part of the summer we travelled to the states to do the Am. JH. We also still had time to start working on the more advanced skills so she was ready for SH this past summer.

I'll do the same with her son who is doing basics now. Now that the days are getting longer again we'll be going to the schoolyard after work to do 3 handed casting, and then our pile work and doubleT, so that he will be ready for swimby come May, and for testing this summer.
 

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Grumpy Old Man
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I won't run Angel in anything until she's completed swimby and started cold blinds. I learned my lesson about entering young dogs into competition too soon. No going there again.

She'll probably start out running a Derby or two. Then we'll evaluate the situation and see if she's going to move on to the Qual or move to Hunt Tests.
 

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I won't run Angel in anything until she's completed swimby and started cold blinds. I learned my lesson about entering young dogs into competition too soon. No going there again.

She'll probably start out running a Derby or two. Then we'll evaluate the situation and see if she's going to move on to the Qual or move to Hunt Tests.

The Grumpy Old Man smacked it out of the park once again.

*With Daisy, I did not know and ran as soon as I thought she was ready. She was close, we just didnt know all the rules. She failed her first two then passed her next four JH and then the next four SH.

*With Amber, we went to Derbies. Again I didnt know and we ran as soon as we could then failed our first two. I think somewhere in here we did the swimby, then started completing the Derbies. SHe was ready for lots of stuff after that.

*With Rooster, since he was a project dog, I ran him as soon as I could. He passed the first three JH's then failed the fourth (not his fault).

I now have Teddy and a new little golden yet to be officially named. They are exactly two months apart and swimby is the goal before we do anything. I want a derby dog.

Have fun good luck... it's all in the learning curve.
 

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RIP Sweet Dusty
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This is a new term for me. What is a swimby?
Thanks
 

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Grumpy Old Man
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This is a new term for me. What is a swimby?
Thanks
Some people view the swimby as water T but it is more than that. The dog not only learns to stop and take a cast in water, but how to respond to pressure around water as well.

In some ways the Swimby is the "Proofing" of all your training up until this point. If some aspect of training is lacking it will usually be exposed during swimby.
 

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RIP Sweet Dusty
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Ahhhh, thanks SC. I know what that is, just never heard it called that.
Thanks!
 

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With Ruby, I didn't know anything and just started doing JH tests when she could do JH work. We picked up a lot of bad habits along the way (because she is my first) and now I'm not sure if I have the patience to retrain her to do senior work (she got her WCX last summer, so she *can* do all the SH stuff but blinds although the honor will forever be our nemesis).

Piper (6 months) is going to go through Evan's "program" and should definitely get an SH and maybe an MH someday. I had always planned to do JH tests her first summer, but then started wondering if I need to get her trained further along (doing SH/MH work or at a certain point in the "program") before starting to do JH tests. The reason I wonder this is because lots of people train all the way through before going into the novice ring in obedience and to some extent agility (both of which we also do). Is this common with field too? I guess if we train that far, we could just skip JH and go directly to SH (funny how you can do that with field but nothing else).

So what do you all think? Does doing JH work before you have reached a certain point in your field program likely to be detrimental to the program or teach the dog bad habits? What must YOUR dog know before starting tests-FF, go straight thru cover, angle entries/returns, etc.?

So, Evan, just how long DOES it take to train a dog? (PS I read over at RTF, too!).
How did I miss this? Every pro hears this one!

I start running them in a certain class or stake when they're training well at a level above it. Before running a Junior (which I don't) my dog would be effective on daily fieldwork at the Senior level. If I spend the time and money to go, I come home with ribbons. I've never subsribed to the 'wish & a hope' approach.

Before I'll run a dog in Senior, he's doing Master level work in daily training. This follows an admonition I give at every seminar:

"Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him."

EvanG
 

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the party's crashing us
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now I'm not sure if I have the patience to retrain her to do senior work (she got her WCX last summer, so she *can* do all the SH stuff but blinds
Boy you said a mouthful!!
 

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Hi guys-I recognize a bunch of you all from RTF....thought I would join over here for some more fun! Hey Evan--at least we don't have to worry about packie. Anyway-I don't compete in JR until my dog is handling well, swim by is done and I have de-cheated. I don't want my dog to 'get away' with cheating at a test. Ryder has a tendency to hug the shore on long water entries but is good as gold when we are on the bank. I put him in Senior, immediately following his JH, since he was ready for it-this year we are heading back to the HT's in MH after a two year break(due to me being sick). I have a list of things I have to work on and I'm keeping a journal. Evan is 100% correct-underwhelmed is a good thing. Depending on how this spring training goes, I hope to have him ready the end of summer or start of fall to go into MH-I have to cover all my bases because Ryder has trouble with the 3rd bird and memory. Know your dog's weaknesses and their strengths-and use them to your advantage. I do a lot of go as sent drills to compensate for Ryder's poopy memory, this helps-since one of his main strengths is his willingness to go out hard all the time.
 

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:311hi-thu Just say no to Packie ;)

:wavey:Hi SC--Hope you are doing well. I'm so stir crazy with this weather it is awful. Managed to get in a good training session on a harvested bean field on Saturday, all by lonesome. I'm going to try and bribe the husband into shooting some fliers for me on Sunday and see if Chris A and some other RTFers will come down.

I'm in the dilema of to repeat or not repeat marks with Ryder. I've decided to not repeat the marks and go for the concept, he was showing some wanting to go back to the old fall on really tight marks a few weeks ago and I'm just coming off a year of building his confidence back up to stay out and do the big hunts without popping in the AOF. Long story is I tried too much after a long time off due to my Crohns and created a problem when he was just about 3. Good news is he now stays out there and hunts with no more popping. It's always something.

Unbelieveable with the smackleader and others.
 

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