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Huh? You should be able to call them, tell them your puppy is however old she is, and that you have not gotten a registration application from the breeder. They will ask sire and dam reg names. Maybe the #'s, but you can get that from OFA or k9data. And then they will tell you if the litter was registered or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
Okay. Let's say I am still optimistic, but a little-more-concerned than before...

I found the following lookup on AKC's website:
873262

Since I already have the AKC#s, I was able to do a transaction lookup and get the "recording date". I plugged in the registration number and recording date, hit [SEARCH], and the following message was displayed:
873268

I am assuming the registration number is correct, as I was able to look it up and verify when it was last processed, and the registered name matches my contract paperwork. The lookup result (with identifying info redacted) is shown below:
873273

So, one of two scenarios seems "reasonable":
  • The "recording date" is not the "Dam Cert Issue Date" being requested on the first form
  • The litter was not registered
Possibility #2 has me asking questions with no comforting answers. I realize any comments at this point are "all conjecture", but "conjecture from the breeder community" seems way better than "conjecture from a confused buyer".

Any thoughts/advice? Maybe, on a more positive note, why would a breeder choose to individually register the puppies vice registering the entire litter?
 

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Maybe, on a more positive note, why would a breeder choose to individually register the puppies vice registering the entire litter?
My understanding is that the breeder has to register the entire litter with AKC (like a "hey I had a litter and there's <insert number here> puppies") and then each individual puppy has to be registered with AKC.

I just checked Kaizer's registration paper and used the AKC form status search to see if the recording date matched what is on his registration paper - it does. My understanding of the dam cert. issue date is the date listed on the registration paper.

I looked up Kaizer's dam in the litter application search (knowing that nothing would come up because she hasn't had a litter in years). I did not get that same error message, so perhaps that eases some concerns?
 

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The date is wrong- there is no way to search the issue date and get that date, as that date are the keys to the kingdom on dogs (never post your dog's AKC cert without covering over that date- litters can be attributed to your dog with that date).
 

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Canadian Kennel Club is a totally different ball of wax. They take an unbearably long time to do anything.
Understatement of the year. I get an email about once or twice a month about how their system has imploded and so this or that or another thing is impossible to process right now. I actually went to their head office in person when I was getting Shala her CKC registration (she is a dual AKC/CKC citizen) because I just thought it would be quicker, and I felt like they had no clue what was going on. It was bizarre. They actually told me I had to go away and fill out forms and send them in. They couldn't take them in person.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Update on our AKC registration-situation...

I was able to contact the AKC, and they did a lookup based on the dam's registration number. After verifying the registered name, AKC's customer rep informed me that there are no litters registered to this golden. This is six (6) months after the litter was born, so I'm wondering, "did no one else ask for AKC papers?"

I called the breeder, and am waiting to have a clear-the-air discussion on what, exactly, is going on. In fairness, the breeder called back but I missed the call. So, we're playing phone tag (not unusual).

Seriously though. If you're breeding AKC registered dogs, why would you not register the litter?
 

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Update on our AKC registration-situation...

I was able to contact the AKC, and they did a lookup based on the dam's registration number. After verifying the registered name, AKC's customer rep informed me that there are no litters registered to this golden. This is six (6) months after the litter was born, so I'm wondering, "did no one else ask for AKC papers?"

I called the breeder, and am waiting to have a clear-the-air discussion on what, exactly, is going on. In fairness, the breeder called back but I missed the call. So, we're playing phone tag (not unusual).

Seriously though. If you're breeding AKC registered dogs, why would you not register the litter?
My guess would be that the bitch was sold on limited registration, but the AKC maybe (?) would have told you that if that was the case. Otherwise, maybe the very cheap cost it is to register the litter? I can’t think of many reasons not to.
 

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Then there is also the issue that this breeder “duped” you into thinking (and paying for!!) an AKC registered puppy when they knew full well that the litter wasn’t registered.

There was a breeder in my area selling puppies without registration because the bitch was bred underage. They didn’t want to register the litter to have proof out there that they bred her before she was two, though their excuse was “she doesn’t have final clearances yet so we can’t register the puppies”. Not that that’s the case with your breeder, but it seems like when puppies should be AKC registered and they are not, usually something is up.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Then there is also the issue that this breeder “duped” you into thinking (and paying for!!) an AKC registered puppy when they knew full well that the litter wasn’t registered..
The dam was born in April of 2017, and the litter was whelped(?) in Nov 2019. And, all the OFA certs are dated from Apr-Jul of 2019.

This breeder has been fairly accommodating to my requests for information, and provided AKC #s up front (which allowed me to do my OFA/K9Data research. So, I'm not uber-concerned about this breeder "hiding things". They have, however, seemed a bit dis-organized. So, while I am curious/confused as to why a breeder who specializes in goldens would not have registered the litter, I'm currently willing to give them the benefit-of-the-doubt. Undeniably, it'd be way better if all the paperwork was taken care of beforehand, and benefit-of-the-doubt didn't need to be a factor. 😉
 

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The dam was born in April of 2017, and the litter was whelped(?) in Nov 2019. And, all the OFA certs are dated from Apr-Jul of 2019.

This breeder has been fairly accommodating to my requests for information, and provided AKC #s up front (which allowed me to do my OFA/K9Data research. So, I'm not uber-concerned about this breeder "hiding things". They have, however, seemed a bit dis-organized. So, while I am curious/confused as to why a breeder who specializes in goldens would not have registered the litter, I'm currently willing to give them the benefit-of-the-doubt. Undeniably, it'd be way better if all the paperwork was taken care of beforehand, and benefit-of-the-doubt didn't need to be a factor. 😉
I think the part that confuses me more is that, assuming they have both the sire and the dam, and know that you know they litter is not registered, why they don't go online and register it right now. It's a very fast and simple process. The benefit of the doubt factor is definitely good, but if you haven't talked to them on the phone yet, maybe ask why they still haven't done it. Unless they lost the certificate issue dates for the sire and dam and have to get those back from the AKC (?), it is a really fast process and doesn't require a whole lot of time.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
An update on where things stand (it's "good news", not "great", but "good")...

I got a chance to talk with the breeder (or, more accurately, the person running the breeder's business). As previously mentioned, things seem a little disorganized, but all questions were answered.

So...
  • "Normally", this breeder requests litter registrations 4-to-6 weeks after a litter is whelped. This allows for the chance that one-or-more puppies may not survive.
  • For whatever reason, this didn't happen "right away". My math says 4-to-6 weeks for a mid-November litter puts everything smack-in-the-middle of the Christmas holidays. While I have seen the online form, and recognize that it's "not that much time", I can understand the timing.
  • This got complicated by the actual breeder being unavailable to do the registration. For privacy reasons, I won't go into the reasons, but I'm satisfied. Granted, I believe one-thing-piled-up-on-another, and things could/should have been handled earlier. But, there seems to be nothing nefarious, just a bit of disorganization that became a bigger issue when compounded by unavoidable circumstances.
  • When everything "got settled" and paperwork was submitted, it seems that the AKC lost-the-bubble on the paperwork. Again, with the current circumstances, this is understandable. But, it also means that the paperwork had to be resubmitted and a new clock was started.
  • The person running the breeder's business (kennel manager?) was very upfront, and admitted that we're not the only people asking for our AKC paperwork, nor the only litter that they are having to push through AKC.
Bottom line?
If I do this again, ask for information on the litter registration as well as OFA clearances. :)
 

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I think if you have documentation that shows the sire and dam's registration, and you have a contract that shows you purchased a puppy that came from those dogs, AKC can probably register the puppy for you.

It sounds like you are getting the run around from the breeder. Nice of you to be patient and understanding, but bottom line is you paid for an AKC registered puppy, and they have not provided that registration to you. It's been way too long and they are making excuses at this point.

I hope you get your registration eventually. Kudos to you for your patience.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
It sounds like you are getting the run around from the breeder. Nice of you to be patient and understanding, but bottom line is you paid for an AKC registered puppy, and they have not provided that registration to you. It's been way too long and they are making excuses at this point.
I wouldn't call it "the run around" as much as "they put all their eggs in one basket, and can't remember where they put the basket". The breeder has been very accommodating with information, and a bit disorganized at "execution". So far, the pattern hasn't changed, so I'm not too alarmed. :)

And, when all-is-said-and-done, we're not going to show or breed Kona. With, or without, AKC paperwork, I fear I'd be in deep kimchee with my better-half if there were any hint of sending Kona back. 🤣 The AKC registration is just so that we are able to post/report the results of her eye/heart/hip/elbow exams to OFA and K9Data. The exams are for our benefit and peace of mind. Posting the results is more so that anyone else researching her parents have info on the health and soundness of offspring.
 

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I wouldn't call it "the run around" as much as "they put all their eggs in one basket, and can't remember where they put the basket". The breeder has been very accommodating with information, and a bit disorganized at "execution". So far, the pattern hasn't changed, so I'm not too alarmed. :)

And, when all-is-said-and-done, we're not going to show or breed Kona. With, or without, AKC paperwork, I fear I'd be in deep kimchee with my better-half if there were any hint of sending Kona back. 🤣 The AKC registration is just so that we are able to post/report the results of her eye/heart/hip/elbow exams to OFA and K9Data. The exams are for our benefit and peace of mind. Posting the results is more so that anyone else researching her parents have info on the health and soundness of offspring.
I think the issue here is that you paid for an AKC registered puppy. No it may not be pertinent to any aspect of Kona's life, as she doesn't technically need to be registered to even dog dog sports or obedience, etc. But it is what you paid for and if they can't give you registration paperwork, they owe you a refund for charging for an AKC registered puppy.

They could be being honest with you or they could be giving you the run around, but it has been 5 months since December. The AKC is not slow and haven't slowed down any part of their process. Whether or not there is something insidious going on is debatable and I applaud you for being patient, but I would be very skeptical about getting AKC papers at this point. I know otherregistriess are incredibly slow (ABCA, CKC), but with the advent of everything being online, I don't understand how they could not have registered the litter.

The breeder SHOULD be the one to do it, but the kennel manager can (and often does) as long as they have the registration numbers and certificate dates of the dogs. If the breeder has lost either of those, yes, it shows a good deal of disorganization, but it should NOT take this long to receive those.

I'm also unsure how the AKC lost their initial litter application? Or request for whatever paperwork they were missing? I'm not sure what it is they're missing. It takes 20 minutes to fill out an application and if the AKC lost this online application (?), it is easily redone. If the breeder lost the registration certificate for both breeding animals, then they would mail in another form that I could see taking maybe 2 - 4 weeks being generous. Then it just takes the 20 minutes to register the litter.

There is a lot going on in the world, but a kennel program large enough to have a kennel manager should have better record keeping. My dog's all have certificates on my computer saved and a hard copy in a filing cabinet.

All in all, Kona sounds like an absolutely wonderful puppy, but if you paid for an AKC puppy and never get paperwork, you deserve some money back.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
All in all, Kona sounds like an absolutely wonderful puppy, but if you paid for an AKC puppy and never get paperwork, you deserve some money back.
If it comes to that, well...;) They're long, convoluted stories, but I've had the opportunity to make the entire sales staff at a car dealership do an about-face on a deal-gone-south, and have a real estate brand put pressure on a franchisee to "do the right thing" (although that one ended up with me being declared persona-non-grata by the REA's wife/office-mgr).

But, we've had a good relationship with the people at the breeder, and I prefer not to "go alpha" unless need be. But, if I have to, I will. In the meantime, nothing hurt by waiting a bit more...and I still have the contract (if we need to go there). :D
 

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If it comes to that, well...;) They're long, convoluted stories, but I've had the opportunity to make the entire sales staff at a car dealership do an about-face on a deal-gone-south, and have a real estate brand put pressure on a franchisee to "do the right thing" (although that one ended up with me being declared persona-non-grata by the REA's wife/office-mgr).

But, we've had a good relationship with the people at the breeder, and I prefer not to "go alpha" unless need be. But, if I have to, I will. In the meantime, nothing hurt by waiting a bit more...and I still have the contract (if we need to go there). :D
I think that sounds like an excellent plan 😁
 

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The AKC registration is just so that we are able to post/report the results of her eye/heart/hip/elbow exams to OFA and K9Data. The exams are for our benefit and peace of mind. Posting the results is more so that anyone else researching her parents have info on the health and soundness of offspring.
1. Pup doesn't need to be registered with AKC in order to put her on K9Data. You have her parents registered names, that means you can start a page for her and hook her pedigree up with theirs.

2. You do not need AKC registration in order to do OFA's.

3. You can get PAL registration for her after she is spayed. I assume you have a contract with the breeder to spay her at a point, if she wasn't to begin with.


^^^ The above applies if we go another 5-6 months and you still don't have paperwork from the breeder. It's not great if you paid a ton for a purebred golden retriever from as good a breeder as you could.

I think it's probable though that you will get paperwork - probably in the next 1-2 months.

If it makes you feel better, my Jovi did not get registered until he was about 5-6 months old. The vet involved losing paperwork + slow USPS were primary reasons why it took so long. I'm friends with the breeder and knew what was going on, so had very little worry about it. By the time he was 6-7 months, he was entered in his first AKC show - as I fully expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
1. Pup doesn't need to be registered with AKC in order to put her on K9Data. You have her parents registered names, that means you can start a page for her and hook her pedigree up with theirs.

2. You do not need AKC registration in order to do OFA's.

3. You can get PAL registration for her after she is spayed. I assume you have a contract with the breeder to spay her at a point, if she wasn't to begin with.
Understood. I will do all the OFAs, regardless, but I am hoping to link Kona's health records to those of her parents and siblings (assuming others also register their dogs).

Since we have no plans for showing or breeding (waiting until she is at least 12-months old before spaying), the AKC paperwork is more a contractual/price thing than anything else.

If it makes you feel better, my Jovi did not get registered until he was about 5-6 months old. The vet involved losing paperwork + slow USPS were primary reasons why it took so long. I'm friends with the breeder and knew what was going on, so had very little worry about it. By the time he was 6-7 months, he was entered in his first AKC show - as I fully expected.
A li'l better, but, honestly, not too much. 😕😂 I find it's easier to "look back" than it is to "look, hopefully, forward". 🙂
 

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Discussion Starter #40
And, the plot thickens...

First, the "good news"...
  • Having talked with the breeder (or, more accurately, the kennel manager), there's plausible explanations for the delay
  • The kennel manager assures me that the paperwork for the litter has been resubmitted to the AKC, and they've been straight with us up to this point-in-time
  • We have the contract, copies of AKC pedigrees for Kona's parents, etc.
Balancing the latest "information that makes me go 'hmmmm'"...
  • The AKC sent me an email saying that, as of 21 May, they do not have a litter registration application for Kona's mom
 
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