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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I live in Las Vegas and have had a hard time finding a breeder here. I’m new to this and still learning about ofa clearances etc, hoping to get some help here. A lot of the breeders who appear more reputable are $3000+ and also have a 1-2 year waitlist. I expanded my search and found a breeder in Victorville which is a few hours away. This is the information given and I’m wondering if someone here can tell me if this is acceptable.

From breeder:
“Our dogs were brought over from the U.K. in 2019, they are registered with the British kennel club.
Parents to our dogs have been fully health tested, unfortunately hip and elbows can not be undertaken until a dog reaches two years old. Our dogs are two in January, once this is completed our prices will increase. Parents to mum and dad are both OFA cleared, this confirms that their offspring will be cleared too, although again this will be undertaken alongside other checks, just for my peace of mind.
My dogs are up to date with all vaccinations, including the rabies injection. They were all vet checked and cleared prior to their journey here in the States. I supply copies of their parents details and health clearances, this includes their five generation British Kennel Club certificate.

Our puppies will be leaving us with worming undertaken at 2,4,6 and 8 weeks, they will be vet checked with their first shot completed. I offer a lifetime of support to families.

Mum and dad are our dogs, therefore you can also meet dad who is a miniature white bear, disguised as a dog! “
 

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I am a bit confused about the statement about increase in price... does this imply that they have been breeding the dogs when they are less than 2 years old at a cheaper price, and will continue to breed them once they pass 2 years of age, but for more money?

BTW, clearances of parents does not mean that the offspring will be clear (otherwise nobody would bother doing OFA!). You can be cleared by parentage for certain genetic things like diseases, but not for hips/eyes/elbows/heart. Healthy parents certainly gives you a better chance at healthier offspring, but it's not a guarantee, and they shouldn't breed those dogs until they run the clearances on them as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I believe the price rise comment means she is currently breeding the dog before it is 2 years old (turns 2 in January) and then will raise the price in future litters when they have the ofa clearance. Is this it right? Are breeders supposed to wait 2 years?
 

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In case you haven't already seen the Code of Ethics for the Golden Retriever Club of America, you can find it here.

I am not an expert in goldens, but I Google a lot and slept in a Holiday Inn last night (not really). With that said...

I see a lot of "the dogs came from ...". My reading of the GRCA CoE is "and? so what?". The CoE references "residing in the U.S.", not where they came from. So, my attitude is "if they are being bred/sold in the U.S., then the GRCA CoE is 'in play'". It's your call, as a consumer, whether you will hold breeders to the CoE's standards. But (again, my opinion), a reputable breeder in the U.S. is not going to look for a way to get around the CoE.

If they're breeding dogs younger than 2yrs (and, it sounds like they are), then that's a concern. There are many health clearances that are recommended by the CoE, and hips/elbows cannot be cleared until the dog is 2yr old.

Hope this helps with your decisions.
 

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I believe the price rise comment means she is currently breeding the dog before it is 2 years old (turns 2 in January) and then will raise the price in future litters when they have the ofa clearance. Is this it right? Are breeders supposed to wait 2 years?
Wow - that is so unethical. Yes, breeders are supposed to wait until their dogs are 2 years old, get all the clearances done, and if they fail any, they should not be bred. Breeding a dog before age 2 is wrong for so many reasons - doing it before age 2 to make a little extra cash is just brutal.
 

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This is really helpful information. Thanks everyone. I’m bummed because it seems like it will be years to get a dog from a reputable breeder.
It could be, it's true. Probably at least a year. But it is so worth the wait. Find a breeder you love, who is breeding ethically, who is producing the kind of dog you want, and get on a wait list. Part of the fun is the anticipation of what's to come. You won't regret it.
 

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From breeder:
“Our dogs were brought over from the U.K. in 2019, they are registered with the British kennel club.
Parents to our dogs have been fully health tested, unfortunately hip and elbows can not be undertaken until a dog reaches two years old. Our dogs are two in January, once this is completed our prices will increase. Parents to mum and dad are both OFA cleared, this confirms that their offspring will be cleared too, although again this will be undertaken alongside other checks, just for my peace of mind.
My dogs are up to date with all vaccinations, including the rabies injection. They were all vet checked and cleared prior to their journey here in the States. I supply copies of their parents details and health clearances, this includes their five generation British Kennel Club certificate.

Our puppies will be leaving us with worming undertaken at 2,4,6 and 8 weeks, they will be vet checked with their first shot completed. I offer a lifetime of support to families.

Mum and dad are our dogs, therefore you can also meet dad who is a miniature white bear, disguised as a dog! “
This is obviously an unethical breeder.
 
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Kate
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“Our dogs were brought over from the U.K. in 2019, they are registered with the British kennel club.
Parents to our dogs have been fully health tested, unfortunately hip and elbows can not be undertaken until a dog reaches two years old. Our dogs are two in January, once this is completed our prices will increase. Parents to mum and dad are both OFA cleared, this confirms that their offspring will be cleared too, although again this will be undertaken alongside other checks, just for my peace of mind.
My dogs are up to date with all vaccinations, including the rabies injection. They were all vet checked and cleared prior to their journey here in the States. I supply copies of their parents details and health clearances, this includes their five generation British Kennel Club certificate.
Hmm.... I call suspish on a couple things...

1. British kennel club? <= I'm sure they mean KC registration, but....
They bought/imported these breeding dogs a year ago. Why haven't they gotten AKC registration on them? Important for registering a litter with AKC.....

2. Doing the math, they bred the dogs when they were about 18 months old. Not great, however be aware that people do get OFA prelims on dogs. As well, most people get eyes and heart checked after 12 months.

My 15 month old pup already has at least an eye clearance. I won't do his heart clearance until he's about 2 years old, however he could get his heart clearance now (anytime after 12 months).

Hips/elbows - you can't get final clearances until after 24 months. However many people get prelims done as a peek. In many cases, hips/elbows don't change very much after 12 months. So if they look bad at 12 months, a breeder can neuter/spay and place a dog who won't clear at 24 months.

There is no mention of them even doing preliminary OFA's. Not that prelims count, but something to be aware of is that they apparently bred these dogs without bothering to check anything - eyes, heart, hips, elbows. And they are counting on luck being their pal when these dogs are aged 2. FYI, European bred dogs have a higher rate of elbow dysplasia, so that's something to be concerned about if they aren't bothering with due diligence.

3. There seems to be a logic puzzle portion to this. Mom and dad to the litter you are looking at were imported from UK in 2019. They are too young to do OFA's on, however THEIR parents (over there in UK, presumably) got their OFA's? It's curious that people living in the UK would have used a US based clearance on their breeding dogs vs the BVA....

4. Parents having OFA clearances (I don't believe the parents have OFA's, but let's play along here) does NOT guarantee anything. Getting OFA's on breeding dogs BEFOREEEEEEEE they are bred is primarily to lessen the chances of producing pups with hereditary problems + lessens the degree of problems if they do occur. A breeder's worst nightmare is producing pups who have both hip and elbow dysplasia - including severe hips and grade 3 elbows - they do clearance and select the healthiest dogs for breeding as a way of lowering risks of future litters having major problems.

5. European bred dogs have higher tendencies to have skin issues (ichythosis). Breeders who import the dogs and breed them here, should be getting DNA tests done to guarantee they aren't producing affected litters. Unlike with OFA's, there is more of a guarantee here depending on how you selectively breed.
 

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Hmm.... I call suspish on a couple things...

1. British kennel club? <= I'm sure they mean KC registration, but....
They bought/imported these breeding dogs a year ago. Why haven't they gotten AKC registration on them? Important for registering a litter with AKC.....

2. Doing the math, they bred the dogs when they were about 18 months old. Not great, however be aware that people do get OFA prelims on dogs. As well, most people get eyes and heart checked after 12 months.

My 15 month old pup already has at least an eye clearance. I won't do his heart clearance until he's about 2 years old, however he could get his heart clearance now (anytime after 12 months).

Hips/elbows - you can't get final clearances until after 24 months. However many people get prelims done as a peek. In many cases, hips/elbows don't change very much after 12 months. So if they look bad at 12 months, a breeder can neuter/spay and place a dog who won't clear at 24 months.

There is no mention of them even doing preliminary OFA's. Not that prelims count, but something to be aware of is that they apparently bred these dogs without bothering to check anything - eyes, heart, hips, elbows. And they are counting on luck being their pal when these dogs are aged 2. FYI, European bred dogs have a higher rate of elbow dysplasia, so that's something to be concerned about if they aren't bothering with due diligence.

3. There seems to be a logic puzzle portion to this. Mom and dad to the litter you are looking at were imported from UK in 2019. They are too young to do OFA's on, however THEIR parents (over there in UK, presumably) got their OFA's? It's curious that people living in the UK would have used a US based clearance on their breeding dogs vs the BVA....

4. Parents having OFA clearances (I don't believe the parents have OFA's, but let's play along here) does NOT guarantee anything. Getting OFA's on breeding dogs BEFOREEEEEEEE they are bred is primarily to lessen the chances of producing pups with hereditary problems + lessens the degree of problems if they do occur. A breeder's worst nightmare is producing pups who have both hip and elbow dysplasia - including severe hips and grade 3 elbows - they do clearance and select the healthiest dogs for breeding as a way of lowering risks of future litters having major problems.

5. European bred dogs have higher tendencies to have skin issues (ichythosis). Breeders who import the dogs and breed them here, should be getting DNA tests done to guarantee they aren't producing affected litters. Unlike with OFA's, there is more of a guarantee here depending on how you selectively breed.
I agree with what you are saying about the breeder and you are much more experienced in the world of Goldens than me. I agree that this is fishy and the UK dogs element is odd the way they are presenting it.
However, is there research evidence that UK Goldens have a higher prevalence of elbow dysplasia and itchythosis than US dogs? The UK’s breeding context is very different to European particularly Eastern European. But just like the US the UK will have good, not so good and bad breeders.
As you can see I am from the UK so would be interested to review any research you can point me to regarding whether the uk or the European continent bred golden’s or both have a higher prevalence of elbow dysplasia and itchythosis.
Thank you
 

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However, is there research evidence that UK Goldens have a higher prevalence of elbow dysplasia and itchythosis than US dogs? The UK’s breeding context is very different to European particularly Eastern European. But just like the US the UK will have good, not so good and bad breeders.
As you can see I am from the UK so would be interested to review any research you can point me to regarding whether the uk or the European continent bred golden’s or both have a higher prevalence of elbow dysplasia and itchythosis.
1. OFA - grade 1 is non-passing and does not get a clearance.

But FCI and BVA allow for breeding of dogs with grade 1 elbow dysplasia.

Research (check OFA website for starters, but you can dig further with very simple online searches) has shown that the risk of elbow dysplasia in a litter doubles when one of the parents has elbow dysplasia. Likewise, there's talk in the breed about elbow dysplasia skipping generations as well (ie, would not touch a pup if one of the grandparents has elbow dysplasia).

In my lifetime I recall horrific cases of elbow dysplasia showing up here in the US back in the 90's prior to GRCA recognizing that it was a hereditary condition and added the requirement for a clearance to the list of necessary clearances. I owned a dog with grade 3 elbow dysplasia who was born in the 90's and knew of a lot of people back then with similar cases of ED. Since then and the progression of breeders adding that clearance and going at least 4 generations with full clearances, they've been able to whittle down the percentages of puppies they produce with ED. And the pups who have ED, tend to have milder cases.

That said, I know of a lot of people who decided to import English lines for breeding - particularly in the interest of getting more diversity in the breeding lines and lessening the possibility of cancer and young cancer. I do not have links to actual studies, so this is word of mouth and along the grapevine. But there have been issues with elbow dysplasia popping up in litters at a higher percentage than normal.

2. Ichy is definitely more of an issue with european lines that have been imported or bred to. Ichy is in the breed across the board, but it appears that the affecteds in certain lines are quite a bit worse.
 
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