[DevWind]

I'm probably putting this under the wrong category.....

In another thread the value of different titles was brought up. So which titles hold more value to you as a breeder or buyer?

I've been working towards a possible Rally Championship and a Utility (obedience) title. So obviously, that's what's important to me right now. And I don't have time and money for field at the moment. My dogs have CCA's because I'm just not a conformation person. We do tricks titles too. They take more training than you think. Winx has an agility title and Pilot could probably get one. But agility isn't my focus right now.

 

[SRW]

FC Field Champion
AFC Amateur Field Champion
NFC National Field Champion
NAFC National Amateur Field Champion

To a much lesser degree
FTCH & AFTCH Canadian field trial champions

QAA & QA2 Qualified all age

To an even lesser degree
MH Master Hunter


I'll add that the dogs don't care about any titles or ribbons. It is the journey with you to get them that they love.

 

[Hildae]

Only things like AFC/FC/MH. (As a buyer. I don't breed.)

 

[3Pebs3]

As someone new to the world of agility I have an extreme appreciation now for all AKC/CKC/AAC agility titles. I do list Summit's NADAC titles on k9data. I'm proud of them too.

However, I can also appreciate the amount of work that goes into achieving AKC/CKC show, field, hunt, upper level rally, and obedience titles.

I achieved my trick dog championship title, which was not easy - but, did not take the same amount of time/energy/money to get Summit ready for agility. I also want to compete in nose work, but, similarly - this seems to come much more naturally, and required far less work/practice <- my scent instructor agreed with me on this.

 

[Megora]

The titles I want to put on my dogs (AKC Obedience and Conformation).

I have respect for other titles, but admittedly do not go out of my way looking at pedigrees with those titles.

 

[3goldens2keep]

AKC Junior Hunter (JH), Senior Hunter (SH), Master Hunter (MH)...

I too appreciate all of the performance titles. I have watched Field Trials, Obedience Tests, Agility, and of course Dog Shows....

Dogs love them all, as long as they are busy working with their trainer.... they are very happy!

 

[DevWind]

As someone new to the world of agility I have an extreme appreciation now for all AKC/CKC/AAC agility titles. I do list Summit's NADAC titles on k9data. I'm proud of them too.

However, I can also appreciate the amount of work that goes into achieving AKC/CKC show, field, hunt, upper level rally, and obedience titles.

I achieved my trick dog championship title, which was not easy - but, did not take the same amount of time/energy/money to get Summit ready for agility. I also want to compete in nose work, but, similarly - this seems to come much more naturally, and required far less work/practice <- my scent instructor agreed with me on this.

I have our UKC titles on the K9data pages. They are all earned accolades!

Tricks aren't easy! True...not as hard as other things but still a lot of work! You must mean Do More With Your Dog. I've just been doing AKC titles. I've been sticking to AKC and UKC only....mostly AKC.

Which brings up another point....do titles outside of AKC hold less value?

 

[Hildae]

It's worth noting that a dog with field titles such as FC or MH is a dog who is obedient and biddable. So that is why an obedience title wouldn't really be of concern for me.

 

[DevWind]

It's worth noting that a dog with field titles such as FC or MH is a dog who is obedient and biddable. So that is why an obedience title wouldn't really be of concern for me.

And that's okay! All sports do start with obedience! That doesn't mean you need titles in it. There are handlers out there who should take obedience a little more seriously though. I choose obedience because it fits with my schedule and I can show locally. The very nearest field events are 3 hours away!

 

[Hildae]

And that's okay! All sports do start with obedience! That doesn't mean you need titles in it. There are handlers out there who should take obedience a little more seriously though. I choose obedience because it fits with my schedule and I can show locally. The very nearest field events are 3 hours away!

I don't discount obedience titles, they've got value. But to me, a field title is of more interest because it's proof that the dog can do the things the breed is intrinsically meant to do AND they are obedient. It's sort of like a package deal, one title proving 2 things.

 

[DevWind]

I don't discount obedience titles, they've got value. But to me, a field title is of more interest because it's proof that the dog can do the things the breed is intrinsically meant to do AND they are obedient. It's sort of like a package deal, one title proving 2 things.

Right....we do plan to get field title eventually. Right now our efforts are on rally and obedience. I know for a fact he can do the work....he LOVES the work!

 

[Megora]

It's worth noting that a dog with field titles such as FC or MH is a dog who is obedient and biddable. So that is why an obedience title wouldn't really be of concern for me.

You've not seen field titled dogs struggling in obedience like I have though.

Most field bred dogs that I've seen dipping into obedience are hard headed and bull in a china shop tending vs what I want for obedience.

Obedience, I want a dog that can pivot on a dime with as little energy expended as possible. I want quiet and focused workers (who also are gorgeous). For obedience clean and precise is very important.

 

[SRW]

You've not seen field titled dogs struggling in obedience like I have though.

Most field bred dogs that I've seen dipping into obedience are hard headed and bull in a china shop tending vs what I want for obedience.

I don't doubt that at all. Field trial dogs today have to precisely mark multiple falls at 100 - 500 yards, with multiple retired guns, live fliers, complex terrain, cover, water entries, cross winds........... They have a lot on their plate. Very few dogs can focus on all this and still have impeccable line manners. With most dogs you can get one or the other but not both.

 

[MintChip]

Field titles. Hey I'd be happy with JH .
Especially those that complement what the breed were initally bred to do. Hunt and Retrieve.

 

[SRW]

Field titles. Hey I'd be happy with JH .

If that is what you want, you can achieve it, and more.

 

[pawsnpaca]

As a puppy buyer, I personally want to see...

1. Conformation championships on the sire, and at least a CCA on the dam. To be honest, I put more weight on the CCA, since I know that a dog can still be an awesome representative of the breed and yet never make "the cut" in a large field of Goldens in a conformation class. And so much about a dog (good and bad) is at the mercy of both the skill of the handlers and the individual judges. At least with a CCA I know that several knowledgeable people have looked closely at the dog and have come to a consensus that it is a good representative of the breed.

2. Any title that shows me that the dog is more than a baby machine. Even a CGC or BN or trick dog title tells me the owner has spent one on one time with the dog and has taught them things.

3. Optional but nice to have: Upper level titles/Championships in any venue (OB, Rally, Agility, Field, Nosework, etc.). Field titles (nice to know the dog can do what he was bred to do, but since I have no interest in hunting or field work, demonstrating that the dog has those instincts are only of value to me in terms of whether the dog is willing to fetch balls and dumbbells). Therapy dog work (I value that this demonstrates that the dog has the sort of temperament that I would like in my own pets).

Although I am impressed by dogs that have OB or Rally or Agility championships, honestly I think that often says more about the owner/handler and how much time and money they have to keep entering and competing with their dogs. I think any title up to the Excellent/UD level already tells me what I need to know about the trainability and biddability of the dog itself.

 

[Megora]

I don't doubt that at all. Field trial dogs today have to precisely mark multiple falls at 100 - 500 yards, with multiple retired guns, live fliers, complex terrain, cover, water entries, cross winds........... They have a lot on their plate. Very few dogs can focus on all this and still have impeccable line manners. With most dogs you can get one or the other but not both.

I just see dogs that are thick skulled and are trained to do X that doesn't require too much thinking on their part.

I love having a smarter and more sensitive dog. <B

 

[3goldens2keep]

Kate....enough already! You seem to know Golden's, surely you are not saying they are "thick skulled"! I hear this comment about Labs, but I also know it is not true. some are harder to train, but many, especially in Field Trials are quick learners, creative, and fast as lighting! Are you just kidding or what?

 

[ceegee]

As a buyer - My dog is my agility partner, so when I was looking for my pup, I looked for obedience and agility titles in the pedigree because they signal biddable dogs and that is what I wanted. I would still do this next time.

As a dog owner - It's become a bit more complicated over the years. Getting titles and winning championships used to be really important and still is, I guess, to some extent. For example, we're very close to Duster's AAC Lifetime award (100 standard Qs and 125 game Qs). There aren't a whole lot of Goldens who've achieved this, and it will be fun to add Duster's name to that very short list. Honestly, though, what gives me the greatest pleasure with my dog these days isn't just the ribbons and titles, it's the team we've become. We've travelled a long way and overcome a lot of stuff in the last six years: my knee replacement, his anxiety, our slow melding into a partnership. I just love training this dog - he's such a rewarding partner. Trials are a good way of testing our training and seeing what we need to learn next. But at our trial last weekend, I watched some of my fellow competitors and how important clean runs and first places have become to them, more important sometimes than making sure their dog has a good time, and it's made me wary. I don't think I'm like that. But they weren't like that either, a few years ago.

So Duster and I will complete the Lifetime and maybe (not sure yet) go to this year's provincial championship at the end of June, and then we might take a month or two away from the trial circuit during the summer heat. We'll keep training agility through the summer because we both enjoy the classes. We're also both loving our rally obedience classes, especially Duster who has found his vocation there. Maybe in the fall I'll split the competition budget between agility trials and rally trials. Do something new. Let my dog shine in his favourite sport.

In ten years time, when he's not there any more and I look at all the ribbons and trophies he's won, I want to know without a shadow of a doubt that he enjoyed the ride too.

 

[3Pebs3]

Tricks aren't easy! True...not as hard as other things but still a lot of work! You must mean Do More With Your Dog. I've just been doing AKC titles. I've been sticking to AKC and UKC only....mostly AKC.

Which brings up another point....do titles outside of AKC hold less value?

Yes, I did earn her trick titles through Do More With Your Dog <--- which, are recognized by AKC/CKC. After completing her TDCH, I submitted her titles to CKC for approval. Just waiting for the CKC certificate in the mail.

I think the value of titles outside of AKC, again depends on the difficulty it takes to achieve said title, and whether or not it is a valuable title to the puppy buyer. I think this thread shows that titles are valued, but, different people put higher value in very different things.