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Bob Samios is one of Daniel’s owners. He’s a really nice guy and once chaired the nationals specialty hunt tests in Ohio a few years back. Bob told me he’s getting Daniel back this summer to finish his senior hunter title (he has his junior title). Bob is also a master hunt test judge.

Daniel has this same Best of Breed win and Group 1 placement at the national dog show in December. Bob was really hoping for a win. Daniel is a beautiful dog and probably doesn’t care about what he wins, as long as he gets some birds.
 

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Kate
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It really REALLY bugs me when we get show reports and it is the handler's name and not the dog's- they are already too prima donna and while it may be somewhat true it encourages the idea that the face and not the dog is who takes the win.
I do get why people do that... I've done it in person when I've gone back to my set up and had people asking me who won what class, etc... I don't always know the dogs, but I know all the people. But I'm not posting results on FB. If I were, I probably would have checked the catalogs and provided armband numbers?

With what I saw the other night - I thought it distracted from the dog too much. Especially when the judges were absolutely choosing the dogs. Even Robert Slay at the end - he has a very good reputation for judging the dogs and Teresa Hundt - I've shown twice (different dogs) to her and felt she was a fair judge both times.

I thought the judge for goldens (Sergio S.) was awesome. When I saw it was a foreign judge, it was unknown how he was going to judge the dogs. I kinda wondered if that affected entries as well? It seemed like fewer goldens entered than normal? But his focus was on the dogs and he seemed to work overtime making his picks. :)
 

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Bob Samios is one of Daniel’s owners. He’s a really nice guy and once chaired the nationals specialty hunt tests in Ohio a few years back. Bob told me he’s getting Daniel back this summer to finish his senior hunter title (he has his junior title). Bob is also a master hunt test judge.

Daniel has this same Best of Breed win and Group 1 placement at the national dog show in December. Bob was really hoping for a win. Daniel is a beautiful dog and probably doesn’t care about what he wins, as long as he gets some birds.
Was this the show in Orlando? I thought that was a different dog.

Regardless, all of the Goldens this year were gorgeous! Daniel is really an absolutely amazing example of the breed ? does anyone know if he has produced any litters yet?
 

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I hope one day a Golden goes BIS at Westmister- this breed is my lifelong passion. I just dont want when they do not to become a disparagement of a good judge and a beautiful winner who deserves to savor the experience . I'm glad the discussion here is so much more thoughtful than other more public social media?. I feel sad for the poodle breeder / owner about the hysteria/ pitch of complaints that the golden didnt go all the way this year.

In such a big entry breed as Golden Retriever, good type comes in differing , even disparate styles. It is thus hard to align 3 judges- breed, group, BIS - who all agree on style, no matter how excellent & correct the breed type. Within correct breed type, there's room for artistry & style in a big numbers breed. I have styles that move me & give me goosebumps, and styes that leave me less on fire.

However, I can still see when a dog of a style I love is of less correct type and choose correct type as far more important, & all good judges can too.

BIS Westminster judges are getting a rich selection of outstanding type already, so they can validly rule in or out on style and a detailed evaluation of how each dog epitomizes and brigs to living color the "perfect" example of a particular breed in the experienced judge's mind's eye.

All the dogs qualify for BIS at that point , so the judge's hands on the dogs and thorough knowledge of not just more than one breed, but a lifetime's accumulation of many (all) the breed standards cannot be armchair quarterbacked like the social media petition is doing without stealing joy from the poodle & whippet who earned their wins.
 

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Nothing wrong with the poodle cut. It all goes back to original function. Despite AKC putting poodles in the non-sporting group, poodles were originally water dogs for retrieving fowl (similar function as goldens). The original purpose of the continental cut was to protect important organs but remove coat bulk to make swimming a little bit easier. Now poodles really don't serve that purpose obviously, but the coat clip is a hallmark of the breed.

Most poodles have been groomed from a very young age, they do love it. You would not be able to groom a dog that precisely if they didn't like it (not without a lot of issues anyway).
Thanks for the info. I actually know little to nothing about these dogs. This was the first show i watched and learned a lot, enjoyed the show and will watch again. I have a Golden and am extremely biased but have respect for all the dogs. I heard on the show that the Golden had never won and that seems strange to me but i have no knowledge of what judges look for. They should have a category for "best dog", i think the Golden could dominate this category.
 

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I posted in another thread (incorrect forum?) that we were able to watch all of the Goldens live on the GRCA website. Such beautiful dogs and we recognized quite a few breeder’s names which made it even more fun. Daniel carries himself with such joy and happiness that you understand why the crowd was cheering for him. He and his handler have such a unique and special bond that cannot be denied. He was the dog that made you smile. It seems crazy to me why the judges don’t see the perfection that the rest of us see, but that is their loss.
Daniel’s sister also won Best of Opposite Sex. What a glorious day for all involved. I also did not realize until I looked at Daniel’s pedigree, that our girl Allie and he have the same Sire.?
You just never know who you're going to bump into when you own quality dogs.

Gilmore just recently had the pleasure of spending a couple of weeks with his sister in Virginia Beach.

And as some of you know, Gilmour is the grandson of the late great Pebwin XPDNC, aka "Mulder".

If you have never looked through your dogs Pedegree I would go to K9data.com and do so
 

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Daniel, the Golden Retriever who won the sporting group and competed in Best in Show, is my Khaleesi's brother, so I was rooting super hard for him. He's the #1 Golden in the country right now, he won the 2019 GRCA national specialty that my club hosted, and he is handled to perfection. But it was not to be. Nice to see he was a fan favorite, though.

I wonder if a Golden will win Westminster in my lifetime. I doubt it. It has never happened since 1877. The Wire Fox Terrier has won, like, 15 times. You'd think in all those years there would be one Golden in the world capable of winning. But, no. And likely never will. We're just too "common."

Bah.
I don't think we're just too common. Seems to me goldens are the most well liked and that doesn't sit well with them. They are winners in my eyes and always will be.
 

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To me, Westminster is fun to watch to see different breeds, but that is about it. I don't take it seriously at all. Firstly, how do you ever compare a Dachshund to a Great Dane, or a Puli to a Golden? All the dogs are great. And truthfully, I have seen some magnificent mutts who are wicked smart and great dogs all around. Of course, Goldies are MY breed; my favorite.

The judges also have "their breeds". They always fawn over the Poodles and their un-natural cuts, and as others have noted, the Terrier breeds. I never expected the Golden to win; in fact, I was shocked when it won its class. I was happy, but shocked. I also hate the fact that dogs with "fixed ears" are still tolerated in the US, and preferred at most of our dog shows. In Europe, it is not tolerated, and as a result, Dobermans and Great Danes have a "natural ear". They are just lovely dogs, with such sweet faces. (Can you imagine, cutting the tops off of a dog's ear, and the putting the head in a brace to make the ears stand up-right? Talk about humanistic and cruel!)

Oops; I got off subject. SO.... I will just continue to love my Goldens, because to me they are the best breed ever. And I can't do anything about the fact that.... those judges don't know what they are passing over! ?
 

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To me, Westminster is fun to watch to see different breeds, but that is about it. I don't take it seriously at all. Firstly, how do you ever compare a Dachshund to a Great Dane, or a Puli to a Golden? All the dogs are great. And truthfully, I have seen some magnificent mutts who are wicked smart and great dogs all around. Of course, Goldies are MY breed; my favorite.

The judges also have "their breeds". They always fawn over the Poodles and their un-natural cuts, and as others have noted, the Terrier breeds. I never expected the Golden to win; in fact, I was shocked when it won its class. I was happy, but shocked. I also hate the fact that dogs with "fixed ears" are still tolerated in the US, and preferred at most of our dog shows. In Europe, it is not tolerated, and as a result, Dobermans and Great Danes have a "natural ear". They are just lovely dogs, with such sweet faces. (Can you imagine, cutting the tops off of a dog's ear, and the putting the head in a brace to make the ears stand up-right? Talk about humanistic and cruel!)

Oops; I got off subject. SO.... I will just continue to love my Goldens, because to me they are the best breed ever. And I can't do anything about the fact that.... those judges don't know what they are passing over! ?
They are not comparing the dogs to the other dogs. They are comparing them to the breed standard. Whichever dog comes closest to matching the breed standard (in the judges eyes) is who is picked for the win. Though I agree it does seem to be biased toward the "flashier" dogs. And I'm certain politics and judge's favorite play into a bit too-I know it does at horse shows. But hopefully most judges are picking winners based on which dog most closely matches its breed standard! :)

Also, the cropped ears thing-while it might not be your forte, there is nothing cruel about it-it is a less invasive and less dangerous procedure than a spay, but nobody calls spaying cruel. And it actually does serve a purpose. Many of the breeds that get their tails docked have it done to prevent "happy tail." Some of the breeds that get ears cropped do it because they are used as guardians and ears are extremely vulnerable if another dog or animal attacks. The cropping gives the attacking animal nothing to get ahold of. I just want to point that out because animal rights activists like to take little things like these and ban them because they sound bad to the general public. After they ban cropping and docking, they will seek to ban something else. Then something else. Then eventually we will wonder what happened to our rights to own dogs-because that it exactly the goal of animals rights groups like PETA, HSUS, ASPCA, DxE, and lots of others-to end animal ownership.
 

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Again, I couldn't care less about Westminster. I know it is breed standard, but with all breeds winning their standard, it is comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't matter; if people want to think it is important, than it is fine with me.

As for the ear cropping, I disagree with you COMPLETELY. And NO, I am not a member of any of the organizations you mentioned.
 

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Maegan
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@DanaRuns I'm a little late to this thread, but my Eevee girl is Daniel's niece (Percy Granddaughter), so I was also rooting SO hard for him. I teared up a little when he won the sporting group.

But in general, I have to say that I'm disappointed with how much literal hate was spewed toward Siba and the Whippet, but mostly Siba. How humans could have so much pure animosity toward an animal is beyond me. AND not a single one of us were there to put our hands on those dogs, so the hate the judge got was also just out of place. This was a man that has been "in dogs" for over 50 years. I think he took his job very seriously and didn't make his picks lightly. Siba is not the #1 Non-sporting dog for no reason either.

I honestly thought the Whippet was going to take BIS. She just floated around the ring. Looked like she was walking on air.

I'm not sure that the issue with a Golden never winning BIS is that they are "common" (meaning too popular with the general public to win), I think it's more that they are inconsistent as a breed. Like @Ljilly28 said: there are many types and styles that don't necessarily match. And, they are still rather a young breed compared to some of the breeds that consistently win BIS at Westminster. I feel like other breeds have reached a higher level of consistency.
 

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Kate
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They are not comparing the dogs to the other dogs. They are comparing them to the breed standard....
My personal take as somebody who had been in the sporting group with my Bertie a while back after he won best of breed + also been in the national owner handler series sporting group a few times with him as well - and I hope I get to go back in there again with Jovi and Glee...

When you are in the breed ring and competing against dogs of your own breed - the judges are both comparing the dogs to the other dogs AND comparing them to the breed standard.

Going into the sporting group it strikes me that they are doing the same exact thing - but looking for something a little extra. And it's the same in the best of show ring but with a lot fewer dogs.

Once a year, you have a lot of pet people who don't understand at all what goes on at a dog show and furthermore dislike dog shows and the concept of showing dogs..... once a year, when Westminster rolls around, they talk more than people who live breathe etc that stuff year around.

People watching on TV are breathing enthusiasm about the most beautiful dogs in the country.... and getting pretty shrill about the golden and the poodle and so on....

I went to handling practice last night with Glee and it was completely different view from people who not only do ten million dog shows a year, but other people in the class I was in had actually been there at the show with their dogs. Needless to say, people were a little more honest about what they thought of judging in the breeds and groups.

The nonsense about cropped ears and so on - it's selective outrage by uninformed people looking for things to rant nonsensically about. Why babble about the cropped ears on dobies and not notice that there was at least one dog out there in the sporting ring (Cocker Spaniel) whose tail had not been cropped like it usually is with the breed.
 

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Again, I couldn't care less about Westminster. I know it is breed standard, but with all breeds winning their standard, it is comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't matter; if people want to think it is important, than it is fine with me.

As for the ear cropping, I disagree with you COMPLETELY. And NO, I am not a member of any of the organizations you mentioned.
I 100% agree with you. I personally think the Westminster dog show reduces dogs to mere objects and I hate it. I almost think it's a good thing that Goldens haven't won as it would cause a dog that is already bred a lot to become even more over bred. Tale docking and ear cropping or any cosmetic change to a dog that requires surgery is just wrong. Take for example pit bulls they are adorable with their ears. You crop their ears and all of a sudden they look menacing. I am sure they are still lovable but man they look mean with them cropped, and there is nothing wrong with tales period.
 
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