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Me too.



Your own words..."as you can have parents that pass clearances, yet still produce pups that fail."
If it was purely GENETICS, good parents wouldn't produce puppies that fail, would they?

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Dysplasia is a risk in every puppy. Of course, you try to hedge your bets by getting a puppy with many generations of clearances behind it, but there is still no guarantee. It can -- and does -- happen in the most carefully bred litters.

Food has an influence, too. Feeding a puppy food that is too high in protein can lead to dysplasia.

Environment is a factor, as well. Puppies who are constantly stressing joints with hilly or hard terrain can become dysplastic.

Behavior is also a factor. A puppy who does prolonged impact activities can become dysplastic. Making/letting a puppy retrieve balls over and over can cause dysplasia.

Early spay/neuter will dramatically increase the risk of dysplasia, and such dogs can develop dysplasia in multiple joints as well as spinal changes.

Add any of these factors together -- a puppy with iffy genes who is neutered early, fed a high protein food, and loves retrieving balls on hills -- and you multiply your chances of dysplasia rearing its head.

With the knowledge we have now, there is simply no way avoid all risk of hip/elbow/shoulder dysplasia. Puppy contracts often have health guarantees covering dysplasia, but those are often unsatisfactory to people, such as when they require returning a puppy in order to receive the benefits of the guarantee. So, we do the best we can, make our best bet, but understand that despite all clearances and efforts, our puppy could still wind up dysplastic. It may be that whatever combination of genes makes a Golden a Golden is responsible for dysplasia risk, such that we may never be able to remove it from the breed entirely.

Walk on up, put your money down, and spin the wheel!
All of these are factors for sure. I understand having health guarantees, but there are many factors at play here, but you'll never get the buyer to own up to these things. It's easier to blame the breeder and then want paid on top of it for something they could have caused themselves.

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If it was purely GENETICS, good parents wouldn't produce puppies that fail, would they?

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This is true, leading to speculation that the food fed to the dam while pregnant is leading to eventual hip dysplasia. The link is to mycotoxins (a type of mold) found in the grains that are in the kibble such as corn, wheat and some other grains. These mycotoxins grow inside the corn, it's not topical so it needs to be tested as you can just inspect the grain. The most common, Aspergillus, has also been a common allergen in dogs when doing an allergy test. This is also another reason grains tend to be an issue with allergies.
 

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If it was purely GENETICS, good parents wouldn't produce puppies that fail, would they?
It isn't that simple or even well understood by the best geneticists. Issues that are caused by simple recessive traits are fairly well understood. There is a long way to go yet before we have the genetic handle on polygenic issues.
People need to get this through their heads. There is not now, nor has there ever been, genetic screening tests for polygenic issues.

Dogs are NOT designed in a lab and genetically engineered to be perfect specimens. Purebred dogs are produced through the practice of selective breeding, not genetic engineering.

That's why NO breeder can guarantee anything. The good ones will offer a warranty in case a problem develops, but that is all they can do.

The buyer needs to understand what "Health Clearances" are, what they are not, and their relevance to breeding dogs. The core clearances are not genetic tests as no such genetic tests exist in the public square.

The few genetic tests available at this time are listed separately and are optional.
 

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Genetics is a complicated science. If the undesired trait is a simple recessive, like coat color in Newfies, where black is dominant to all other colors, it is pretty easy to select for the color you want. However, some conditions are caused by more than one gene, or possibly the absence of certain modifier genes. These are the tough ones. The fact that the incidence of severe hip dysplasia in Goldens has decreased over time indicates that breeding dogs with clearances does make a positive difference.
Of course, other things such as poor diet, letting your pup over-exercise, jogging with young dogs, and accidents can cause damage.
 

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It isn't that simple or even well understood by the best geneticists. Issues that are caused by simple recessive traits are fairly well understood. There is a long way to go yet before we have the genetic handle on polygenic issues.

People need to get this through their heads. There is not now, nor has there ever been, genetic screening tests for polygenic issues.



Dogs are NOT designed in a lab and genetically engineered to be perfect specimens. Purebred dogs are produced through the practice of selective breeding, not genetic engineering.



That's why NO breeder can guarantee anything. The good ones will offer a warranty in case a problem develops, but that is all they can do.



The buyer needs to understand what "Health Clearances" are, what they are not, and their relevance to breeding dogs. The core clearances are not genetic tests as no such genetic tests exist in the public square.



The few genetic tests available at this time are listed separately and are optional.
I agree. But the OP came here to claim without a doubt that it is absolutely genetic when there's no certainty that it is. The buyer wants to blame genetics so they can get a refund/new puppy. The breeder may know more to the story about how the puppy was raised and not want to honor it based upon any of the reasons described above. Sure, I would be very disappointed to have a dysplastic puppy/dog, but I know enough about clearances to not blame it on genetics.


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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited by Moderator)
I agree. But the OP came here to claim without a doubt that it is absolutely genetic when there's no certainty that it is. The buyer wants to blame genetics so they can get a refund/new puppy. The breeder may know more to the story about how the puppy was raised and not want to honor it based upon any of the reasons described above. Sure, I would be very disappointed to have a dysplastic puppy/dog, but I know enough about clearances to not blame it on genetics.


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Excuse me? You're trying to tell people I wanted a refund or new puppy? Stop making assumptions when you don't know. You don't know me and you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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