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Discussion Starter #1
How are people on waitlists hanging in there? What are you doing to keep busy? Are you still enjoying the anticipation or are you getting antsy?
Well, for me, I've joined this forum to continue my research and to keep my mind occupied. I watch Tucker videos everyday. I peruse golden groups on Facebook to enjoy other people's goldens. I also make a little list on my phone of the cool things I want to buy for my pup. And I of course check the waitlist!
I am #13 and the dam is about to go into heat any time now. I've been on the wait list since March 9th and will be here until my pup is born!


All good things come to those who wait!
 

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I assume you are waiting on the litter that the little sticker is doing advertising for on some of your other posts... have you considered the pedigree? Here is the dam's k9data page-http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=1005305 much of it is unknown. This breeder states on their site that they only breed w all 4 core clearances, but the reality is this-https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1997150 inadequate cardiac, eyes done for first time a year ago (and out of date this week), came out of sire and dam with zero clearances for anything... I dk who she uses for stud dog- the puppy she has she says she bought for her stud when he's old enough but that attitude is a very detrimental to the breed attitude. Stud dogs are easy to find- the BEST stud dog is available to ethical breeders (who is he? he is a different dog for every bitch but that's the point...)
THIS is the dog she calls 'stud dog' on her site- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1979347 and his pedigree/OFA record https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1979347 not stellar and certainly not an attempt to bring down a COI.. two dogs who have little in common except their lack of merit pedigree-wise.
Anyway- you have posted so many times that little advertising sticker and the mods probably haven't noticed it has a breeder name on it. It may be a blessing you are number 12 or whatever on this litter because it does not look like a super safe breeding.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
When I asked about the k9 data at midnight last night they said they would start filling it out. So what you’re looking at is brand new information posted and likely isn’t complete. I understand that the Creed people have some questionable ethics as I’ve found they’ve been breeding dams less than 2 years without clearances. But Tucker has all his clearances and so does Harley so what is there to be worried about?
 

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With all my years in Goldens- many decades actually- I would find it worrisome. Pedigree: Miss Harley Quinn if you look @ the page I began for her (the info is not complete because I would have to order her pedigree on AKC to finish it up- since grandparents aren't trackable on OFA due to no clearances- sometimes we can build a k9data page going back and forth from OFA but not in this case...in other words, if it were findable, I could find it) you will notice she has a heart clearance that is essentially useless, especially so when you add in that neither of her parents had the first clearance on anything at all. Goldens have cardiac issues. ONLY A CARDIOLOGIST clearance is adequate for a Golden.
That's just one piece of it.
Harley- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1979347 eyes out of date, inadequate cardiac clearance. His pedigree is full of dogs without sufficient clearances to breed on.
I know you're excited but think there is plenty there to worry about. Perhaps others will chime in. The research and transparency is so very important when choosing a dog to spend your life with.
 

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For educational purposes- cardiac clearances:Goldens- you want a clearance that either starts with ACA- or ends with C-VPI or C-PI or C-NOPI.. not one that ends with P-VPI, P-PI, etc. That "P" means practitioner (and the PI part has to do with the identification of the dog). Frankly, unless that practitioner did a residency in cardiology (which we know s/he did not or s/he'd have gotten boarded shortly after) that clearance is absolutely worthless. It's only marginally better than an experienced lay person listening (and I mean no slight to the practitioner in saying that- none whatever. It's just what it is worth wise in a Golden). Why does OFA take P clearances? Because there are many breeds who do not require a cardiologist. OFA is going to ACA clearances and those require a cardiologist. But for a GOLDEN RETRIEVER, a P clearance has never been in line with the Code of Ethics.
Cardiac issues are not issues that are rare in Goldens. They are fairly common. I have no basis for my guess that cardiac issues are more common than hip issues other than 'what I hear of' but I hear of an awful lot.
 

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What about Golden Rule Retrievers? They’re my back up.
post sire and dam info (reg name or number) and someone will screen it for you!
or maybe someone has time to go to their site and find upcoming litters and screen those. I gotta go get my elder's feet tended to....
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
They’ve been nothing but transparent the entire time and have removed their own dogs from being potential sires due to heart problems or conformational issues and had them neutered. This dam and sire pair have one litter together already.
 

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Puddles
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I'm with prism on this one. I looked at all the pictures and maybe I'm a snob but when I purchased a golden puppy I wanted it to look like this (pic below). Any breeder that doesn't know what the breed standard is shouldn't be putting out puppies. These people do nothing with their dogs, they don't compete in any venue to verify their dogs are worth breeding. They just produce puppies. They have no idea about structure so must assume they know nothing about breeding a biddable (trainable) dog with good temperament. I have kids, grand kids and great grand kids.. LOL and cats. I also have special needs grand kids and want to know the pup I buy can go anywhere, be around anything or anybody and not panic or become frightened or nervous.

This is what I think a golden should look like.

IMG_20170402_083402.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I sent in an application to Scion Golden’s. But their website hasn’t been updated since 2012 and they don’t have a Facebook page. If anyone has any recommendations in Texas please let me know. Yes I’ve looked at the Texas breeders thread.
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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Well...

Hm...

No way in hell I'd ever consider a puppy from this litter. But...

Most puppy buyers aren't me. Or Puddles. Or Prism. We insist on the highest standards. But I'm coming to my regular (controversial) rant, here.

[rant]

Fact: There aren't enough well-bred puppies for all the puppy buyers. When all those well-bred puppies are gone, where do the remaining puppy buyers go? After all, this is a zero sum game. There simply aren't enough puppies for puppy buyers. So, when the music stops and they don't have a puppy, where can they go to get one? They can go to puppy mills, back yard breeders, pet stores...where else? Hm.

So, I suggest that "second tier" breeders be an option that we shouldn't chase people away from.

[/rant]

To my mind, 2nd tier breeders are those who do the 4 core clearances but little/nothing else. And while I'd like to see generations of clearances behind a litter, this breeder at least does the 4 (except for the practitioner on the cardiac clearance, which, though inadequate under the GRCA CoE, does have some value to my thinking). I'd say this breeder is on the borderline low end of 2nd tier.

Puppies from such parings often lack in type, litters lack consistency, and puppies are wildly unpredictable in structure, temperament, and suitability for original purpose. But lots of buyers wouldn't care about those things even if you educated them on these issues, and for them a 2nd tier breeder is perhaps something they should be willing to consider.

Here, you've told the OP our very valid concerns, and she doesn't seem to care. There will be a puppy available for her, and she has made up her mind. And since this breeder appears to be a (very low end) 2nd tier breeder, perhaps after voicing concerns we shouldn't discourage her too much. She has been educated and is making an informed decision. The parents have the four core clearances (though with practitioner on cardiac). Not everyone is going to get a well-bred puppy. So, for those who don't care about that, but are making an informed decision, and the breeder at least tries to do better than the generations previous...hm...I say wish them well. :shrug: Hard to say here, because this breeder is just clinging to the bottom edge of the 2nd tier, but still...

My humble (and controversial) opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck with your puppy search, Miranda. I hope you get a wonderful companion.
 

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I want it to look like that too.
Unfortunately I do not see any of the dogs that they own producing dogs with that look. Highly unlikely you'll end up with a conformation bred 'look' with that pairing. Their dogs look more fine boned, with shorter/thinner coats, and narrow-ish heads. I agree with Puddles that they do not seem to breed with structure in mind...which is so so important. if you want your golden to be able to run and play and hike and swim like a golden should, structure has to be there.

That being said, I do agree with Dana about the whole 2nd tier breeder thing. You're pretty far down the waitlist at #13, so if I were you I would try to find a better breeder. If the dam doesn't end up coming into heat soon you're going to have a several month wait, and if the Dam has (let's conservatively say) 8 puppies and people before you on the list all can commit to a pup, you'll be waiting even longer for the next litter.

Reach out to your local Golden Retriever Club for breeder referrals:

GHGRC Home

Austin Golden Retriever Club

Dallas Fort Worth Metro Golden Retriever Club
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks so much for the recommendation! I am not being stubborn and if I were I wouldn’t have put in an application to Scion. Yes I am personally satisfied with the health clearances of both parents. No I am not and have not been satisfied with their type or color. I don’t like Tucker’s head but he meets the breed standard which is what they say. So I’m definitely open in finding different breeders because I don’t want to wait an entire year and for the reasons listed.
 

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Here is the link to GRCA's Code of Ethics for Breeders. I personally would want a breeder who completely follows or exceeds these guidelines with no excuses. A breeder may have their reasons for not complying, but I would hold out for compliance.

https://www.grca.org/about-grca/grca-code-of-ethics/

II. The following reports are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S.:
Hips – a report from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. Since PennHIP results are not automatically published, these results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Elbows – a report from the OFA at 24 months of age or older.
Hearts – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Cardiology), at 12 months of age or older. Report should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Eyes – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology. Examinations should be done within 12 months prior to a breeding, and results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Dogs that produce offspring should continue to have ophthalmology examinations on a yearly basis for their lifetime, and if the findings permit recertification, the results should continue to be recorded in an approved online database.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
GHGRC - I found their list of breeders and if they had websites I looked around on them and submitted an application. If they didn’t have a website I sent them an email inquiring. Thanks so much guys!
 

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Miranda, are you somehow connected to Texas TLC Goldens? Not sure what's up w/ the advertisement in your profile pic and signature block. I can understand excitement about a puppy, but this just downright appears to be blatant advertising for a less than stellar breeder. Are they giving you a discount or promises to bump you up the list if you advertise for them? I'm sure they're nice people who have a convincing sales pitch, but they're not doing the pups they're producing or the families who purchase those pups any favors by slacking on the bare minimum health testing. Even w/ k9data in the process of being updated, the pedigrees should be easy to fill in if in fact there were generations of verifiable clearances behind they gods they're breeding available on ofa.org.
 
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