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Why do you deem this OFA as god? Do you work for them or have some sort of affiliation? Since when does an evaluation done by a licensed cardiologist mean nothing? If we were speaking in terms of humans, that would be insanity. That we should all have to report all of our health to one centrialized processing unit for special verification that’s already been performed by a specialist in the field. Madness. I get it, it’s all a money making business for these organizations, but I honestly feel bad for the breeders being nickeled and dimed for all of this. One form of proof is more than enough for me.
 

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Thank you for bringing that up as I’m sure it is an innocent error and I will let them know! I’ve personally found a lot of breeders websites are really hard to navigate, so any way we can help any of them improve is great!
I actually know they no longer have Fisher. Even though Fishers hips were rated as excellent through Penn Hip and OFA they decided to no longer breed him. I know this because I was in the market when they still had him, and I was interested in one of his puppies, but he was no longer siering (I think I just made that word up lol)
Thank you for being happy for me as I truly love my girls more than anyone could imagine! They are truly my children, as I likely can’t have any human ones. I’ve spoken to the breeder recently about all this and she has assured me all the updated data was sent in to OFA in late February, but because of Covid-19 they aren’t processing anything right now. Hopefully according to all of your standards they are trying to “do better” by reporting more regularly and this will ease your minds that they have always had the health tests done, just haven’t been the greatest at reporting :) still don’t think it’s grounds to deem them “unethical”
Thank you! I’m getting ready to send my own dog’s stuff in 😅 I’m worried about it getting lost in the mail.

I do want the best for you and your breeder and I truly do look forward to all the updated information. What is clear to me is that this breeder truly does make puppy buyers feel included and important and that is an important part of breeding as well. I think it’s important that the breeders here do have people do defend them, and puppy buyers that defend them so whole heartedly is a great sign. Encouraging updated OFA work will make everyone’s life so much better :)
 

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Thank you! I’m getting ready to send my own dog’s stuff in 😅 I’m worried about it getting lost in the mail.

I do want the best for you and your breeder and I truly do look forward to all the updated information. What is clear to me is that this breeder truly does make puppy buyers feel included and important and that is an important part of breeding as well. I think it’s important that the breeders here do have people do defend them, and puppy buyers that defend them so whole heartedly is a great sign. Encouraging updated OFA work will make everyone’s life so much better :)
I agree! I think everyone is just doing the best they can! And while I’m sure OFA is doing all they can, everyone right now is struggling to keep up, and while some may see things process right away, for others it will take months. Just like with unemployment claims currently 💁🏼‍♀️🙁 weird times we are living in!
I appreciate your kindness 💗 we need more of that in this wild world!
 

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Why do you deem this OFA as god? Do you work for them or have some sort of affiliation? Since when does an evaluation done by a licensed cardiologist mean nothing? If we were speaking in terms of humans, that would be insanity. That we should all have to report all of our health to one centrialized processing unit for special verification that’s already been performed by a specialist in the field. Madness. I get it, it’s all a money making business for these organizations, but I honestly feel bad for the breeders being nickeled and dimed for all of this. One form of proof is more than enough for me.
People are not dogs so that is a false equivalence. No, I don’t have any affiliation with OFA other than using them to complete health certifications for my dogs.

Why are you against them? Why make excuses for a breeder who is not following the standards?

You wanted to rake me over the coals for holding them to the standard. I said fine if you don’t care that it is online show me an OFA cardiologist form, you could not. I don’t know really what to call that form. I read it and don’t see a clear Normal finding. I see a notation of “Soft ejection sound noted over the carotid artery”. I don’t know what that means but my expectaction for a normal heart is that there would be no findings. I would have to consult with the Cardiologist because there is a question here.

This whole issue could have been avoided if the breeder chose to follow the standard. It would be clear right online for everyone to see what the result was. Instead, we are in this spiral where regardless of the information and evidence provided, you are deeply set in your opinion that this is enough.

What am saying is this is not a Certification. I don’t even know what the status means for a breeding dog and unless you consulted with the cardiologist you don’t either.
 

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I get it, it’s all a money making business for these organizations, but I honestly feel bad for the breeders being nickeled and dimed for all of this.
OFA is a not for profit.
They are dedicated to improving the health of animals with dogs as the main focus but they do cats too. They are funding amazing research that benefits all animal owners in addition to maintaining the public verification database that responsible breeders use to track and hopefully reduce incidences of specific diseases which vary by breed.

I think that is a pretty awesome goal and am glad they are there for us.
 

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OFA is a not for profit.
They are dedicated to improving the health of animals with dogs as the main focus but they do cats too. They are funding amazing research that benefits all animal owners in addition to maintaining the public verification database that responsible breeders use to track and hopefully reduce incidences of specific diseases which vary by breed.

I think that is a pretty awesome goal and am glad they are there for us.
That’s amazing and one thing we can agree on. I am all for any organization there to support animals. One thing that is very clear to me is that your definition of Ethics as a fellow breeder is just very different from mine as a consumer. Even though these organizations like the OFA exist, I don’t see it to be 100% necessary that it should be the sole basis to determine weather one is Ethical or not. There is so much more that goes into that determinitaion in my mind. When did we become a society that can’t trust documentation of tests/procedures preformed by veterinarians /specialists in their field? It seems a bit disrespectful to their profession, and those who spent years and years in veterinary school. I as a consumer choose to focus on that. The facts. That regardless if their tests have been entered into some special database, they have indeed been documented and performed.
 

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One thing that is very clear to me is that your definition of Ethics as a fellow breeder is just very different from mine as a consumer. Even though these organizations like the OFA exist, I don’t see it to be 100% necessary that it should be the sole basis to determine weather one is Ethical or not.
Aside from the fact that the OP for this thread did, indeed, refer to the breeder-in-question as "pretty unethical", I believe you have identified the point of contention in the follow-on discussion about ethics, OFA certifications, etc.

My perspective is that there are two working interpretations of "ethical" in play. The first is the "more widely used" interpretation, having to do with moral principles and the general character of people. The second is more narrowly defined, let's refer to this working interpretation as ethical-per-GRCA-guidelines.

The GRCA has a very discrete set of guidelines set out in their Code of Ethics. Part of that applies to breeders of golden retrievers in the USofA. And, those guidelines specifically call out OFA certifications as the GRCA-accepted mechanism for establishing the condition of hips/elbows for dogs that are going to be bred. The GRCA also calls out specific organizations for the eyes and heart. So, there's not much wiggle room. If a person is going to breed golden retrievers in the USofA (irrespective of where the dogs come from), and that person is going to abide by the GRCA Code of Ethics, then the GRCA guidance needs to be adhered to.

Does not adhering to the GRCA guidance make a person amoral, or unethical (using the first working interpretation)? Of course not. Leastways, not automatically, any more than adhering to the GRCA guidance automatically makes a person moral or ethical.

So, why is it "a big deal"?

I've been up to the Lake Chelan area. It's beautiful, and it's way different than many other parts of our country. I suspect that there is a greater sense of community and "people know people" in the Chelan/Leavenworth area. Sadly, that's not true across the entirety of our country. Wish it was.

As a consumer, the OFA certifications and GRCA guidance are shortcuts in scenarios where it's not feasible to get to know all the breeders well enough to make character-based decisions that are driven by close, personal knowledge of the breeder, or of the person who is recommending that breeder to me. So, the OFA/GRCA information is akin to a U/L sticker on an appliance. Is it a guarantee that the appliance is suited to my purpose? Nope. Is it a guarantee that the appliance is not going to fail? Nope. But, it does mean that certain minimum standards have been adhered to.

That's all. I cannot change/undo the OP's comments. Without personal knowledge of the situation, I am in no position to take a side, either way. I'm glad you've had a great experience, even happier that your goldens are healthy. And, you have every right to share your positive experience. But, not everyone shares your experience. Based on the posts, at least one-or-two have had negative experiences. And, conversely, they should also be able to share their experience. The vast majority of us, as you have correctly pointed out, have had zero first-hand experiences with this breeder. (Starting to sound like "Yelp", no?). So, based on the lack of first-hand experience, the GRCA/OFA guidance is the best, most universally applicable benchmark available to the rest of us (or, leastways, "me"). Nothing more. Nothing less.
 

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It is truly amazing how much time and patience is spent trying to explain clearances, OFA and the GRCA code of ethics to puppy buyers in threads exactly like this. It happens over and over and over again. This is not the first thread, it won't be the last. Time and patience spent on people hellbent on defending breeders who are NOT on the up-and-up with regard to clearances. It is exhausting. They've bought one puppy and think they understand it all...meanwhile being patently incorrect...and argue with highly regarded breeders on this board who have decades of experience. If "WE ALL" are telling you something --- maybe it's because there's a whole lot of truth to it --- what I can tell you is, there is no "bashing" of other breeders out of jealousy....that is absolutely ludicrous although we hear it ALL THE TIME ----- trust me, experienced breeders producing titled, health tested dogs have ZERO TROUBLE selling puppies --- they don't need to compete -- and they certainly don't need to compete with people breeding know-nothing pedigrees and skimping on clearances. It's like suggesting Maserati is jealous of Greasy Corner Used Car Dealer. Ummmm....no. We are stewards of the breed, and want the best for ALL goldens and their owners. Promoting responsible breeding is #1 on the list of stewardship. When we know better, we do better...we're trying to educate, so next time, you'll do better.
 

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Aside from the fact that the OP for this thread did, indeed, refer to the breeder-in-question as "pretty unethical", I believe you have identified the point of contention in the follow-on discussion about ethics, OFA certifications, etc.

My perspective is that there are two working interpretations of "ethical" in play. The first is the "more widely used" interpretation, having to do with moral principles and the general character of people. The second is more narrowly defined, let's refer to this working interpretation as ethical-per-GRCA-guidelines.

The GRCA has a very discrete set of guidelines set out in their Code of Ethics. Part of that applies to breeders of golden retrievers in the USofA. And, those guidelines specifically call out OFA certifications as the GRCA-accepted mechanism for establishing the condition of hips/elbows for dogs that are going to be bred. The GRCA also calls out specific organizations for the eyes and heart. So, there's not much wiggle room. If a person is going to breed golden retrievers in the USofA (irrespective of where the dogs come from), and that person is going to abide by the GRCA Code of Ethics, then the GRCA guidance needs to be adhered to.

Does not adhering to the GRCA guidance make a person amoral, or unethical (using the first working interpretation)? Of course not. Leastways, not automatically, any more than adhering to the GRCA guidance automatically makes a person moral or ethical.

So, why is it "a big deal"?

I've been up to the Lake Chelan area. It's beautiful, and it's way different than many other parts of our country. I suspect that there is a greater sense of community and "people know people" in the Chelan/Leavenworth area. Sadly, that's not true across the entirety of our country. Wish it was.

As a consumer, the OFA certifications and GRCA guidance are shortcuts in scenarios where it's not feasible to get to know all the breeders well enough to make character-based decisions that are driven by close, personal knowledge of the breeder, or of the person who is recommending that breeder to me. So, the OFA/GRCA information is akin to a U/L sticker on an appliance. Is it a guarantee that the appliance is suited to my purpose? Nope. Is it a guarantee that the appliance is not going to fail? Nope. But, it does mean that certain minimum standards have been adhered to.

That's all. I cannot change/undo the OP's comments. Without personal knowledge of the situation, I am in no position to take a side, either way. I'm glad you've had a great experience, even happier that your goldens are healthy. And, you have every right to share your positive experience. But, not everyone shares your experience. Based on the posts, at least one-or-two have had negative experiences. And, conversely, they should also be able to share their experience. The vast majority of us, as you have correctly pointed out, have had zero first-hand experiences with this breeder. (Starting to sound like "Yelp", no?). So, based on the lack of first-hand experience, the GRCA/OFA guidance is the best, most universally applicable benchmark available to the rest of us (or, leastways, "me"). Nothing more. Nothing less.
Nicely outlined-
I will add to this, that GRCA's CoE is a best practices method. OFA is the only searchable online database so they are the only game in town. Their fee for verifying what we send in and listing it is super cheap. And in all reality when we endeavor to put up a website, offer living creatures for sale, and sell those puppies to people who believe we have clearances (which they all know we ought to have even if they don't know how we get them) then we had best have them! And paying that small fee to make a person feel easy on spending a huge amount of money on an animal they hope to keep as a family member for a really long time is nothing in the grand scheme. Every clearance in the Code is there for a great reason. GRs have cardiac issues. Use a cardiologist. That's bare minimum! It's cheap, too- like, $50 or so. GRs have eye issues- get eyes cleared yearly. That too is cheap. I've got an eye clinic @ my house in a couple weeks and it's $30. Add to that the $8 I will pay OFA and what a bargain!Plus I have the assurance my dogs are not developing a blinding disorder as GRs are apt to do. Hips and elbows only need to be done one time- but GRs have ortho issues. Who wants to risk a puppy with ED behind it? Who wants to watch a dog in pain and pay the associated vet costs? Not a person who wants a safer bet. We do not need first hand experiences with any breeder to know whether they follow best practices. At least 50 times a year we uncover a blatant lie on a breeder's site but one would have to speak that foreign language to know it is a lie. I think there were two this week alone! Puppy people should not have to navigate this without expert advice imo. That's what we provide here.
Ethical - to the point served here- means 'does the right thing for the breed, the buyer and the animals' and that means following the Code.
 

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I am happy that there are so many ethical breeders here going to bat for what you believe is right. We all know there are way too many people back yard breeding, even if only once, that will openly admit they preform zero tests...and they don’t care. I am happy that there are organizations like the OFA that seem to really care and fight for what’s right within this industry and make it easier for some potential buyers to navigate (although upon some personal conversations as of late, I’m not sure any puppy buyer I’ve come across would even know what the OFA is, what it does, or what it stands for.) Maybe that’s the bigger issue here, is that this non-profit needs to be more in the public eye to really be meaningful and valid to customers. Maybe this could be part of the reason some breeders are having the proper testing preformed so that it can be provided directly to customers when asked for, but they don’t feel it to be necessary to report it to the OFA because outside of the breeding community it’s not something widely known about? Of course I have no proof of this to be definitively true, but I could see it making sense to some people/breeders. Let’s also not forget that doing all the proper tests is not a 100% safety net. Genetics are a tricky little sucker. I have studied this in great depth for my Biology degree focused on animal biology. I don’t care how amazing of a breeder you are, there is never going to be a 100% guarantee that none of the puppies you produce will end up with any type of issues. I find that forums like these are more likely to have opinions from the couple customers who very sadly have had poor experiences rather than the hundreds who have had great ones. All in all, I have learned some meaningful things from this forum for which I am grateful. I’m always open to being more knowledgeable on topics I otherwise didn’t know about. Let’s all please remember we are all here for the right reasons, and that is because we care deeply about our golden retriever companions! I’m happy I found myself here and was able to share a bit of my side of this story so that if anyone else comes across this forum it isn’t so one sided. People can draw their own conclusions based on their own set of morals and ethics with a more rounded set of details regarding the original post.
I truly am a very kind person with a huge heart, which is why I will go to bat for people when I think they are deserving. I appreciate the knowledge you all have given me here. I’m still 100% satisfied with my decision to purchase not one, but 3 goldens from LCG and would do it all over again in a heart beat. Shoot, I may even have all my girls tested for all these things just for fun when they come of age, even though we won’t be breeding as they will all be spayed (2 are, ones not old enough/hasn’t had a heat cycle yet 😜)
 

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Shoot, I may even have all my girls tested for all these things just for fun when they come of age, even though we won’t be breeding as they will all be spayed (2 are, ones not old enough/hasn’t had a heat cycle yet 😜)
That is my plan, once our Kona is at least 12 months, but before here second heat cycle. My purpose for getting the testing and then reporting it via OFA is two-fold...

#1 - I want to know. Sort of a "peace of mind" or "know what's coming" thing.
#2 - Since the extra cost is minimal, Kona's test results will be available for "the next round", so that others can see her test results in comparison to her litter mates, mother/father, etc.

Cheers!
 

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Hi there,
As you are studying for a degree in Biology, then you're obviously aware of the scientific methods for evaluating data.
You will therefore also be very clear on the difference between an opinion and a fact.
You will also understand that there are many scientific organisations that evaluate, check, certify and publish data and information on many topics - including animal biology.
Your in-depth of knowledge in the study of genetics will also be very useful once you get the results of any genetic testing you choose to do on your GR girls.
It's great that you are happy, and that they are healthy right now. That's good news :0)
Good luck, and let this forum (and OFA) know what you find out from any testing you choose to do?
 

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Hi there,
As you are studying for a degree in Biology, then you're obviously aware of the scientific methods for evaluating data.
You will therefore also be very clear on the difference between an opinion and a fact.
You will also understand that there are many scientific organisations that evaluate, check, certify and publish data and information on many topics - including animal biology.
Your in-depth of knowledge in the study of genetics will also be very useful once you get the results of any genetic testing you choose to do on your GR girls.
It's great that you are happy, and that they are healthy right now. That's good news :0)
Good luck, and let this forum (and OFA) know what you find out from any testing you choose to do?
I’m not studying for, I already have my biology degree. Thanks for being happy that my dogs are indeed healthy 💗
 

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Every state in the US has a dept of agriculture. Contact them. Contact the attorney general in your state as well. I was told by my vet to stay away from the Amish Breeders in Montgomery and Fulton County. I was shocked at the conditions that were laid out before me that the vets have encountered. Contact your local news media as well.
 

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I know of a breeder that is pretty unethical. They breed sick dogs and are away that the puppies they are giving away are predisposed to having major GI issues. Their website only lists a few dogs, but I know they have upwards of 15 breeding dogs. I'm pretty sure they lie about a lot of their clearances. They charge a fortune for their pups and are basically con artists, scamming individuals who think they're getting a great little puppy. They also give away breeding rights really easily, so now many of the dogs in Washington state have these "tainted" lines... and they stud out their sire that has tainted lines, so even people who aren't breeding their puppies are still breeding bad lines.

Breeders are supposed to preserve and better the breed, and they clearly are not. There is only so much research someone can do on their own while searching for a pup, and this breeder puts on a good show... at some point, you have to assume the people you're talking with are telling you the truth.

But what can I do?


Contact the USDA asap and your state attorney general
 

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I know of a breeder that is pretty unethical. They breed sick dogs and are away that the puppies they are giving away are predisposed to having major GI issues. Their website only lists a few dogs, but I know they have upwards of 15 breeding dogs. I'm pretty sure they lie about a lot of their clearances. They charge a fortune for their pups and are basically con artists, scamming individuals who think they're getting a great little puppy. They also give away breeding rights really easily, so now many of the dogs in Washington state have these "tainted" lines... and they stud out their sire that has tainted lines, so even people who aren't breeding their puppies are still breeding bad lines.

Breeders are supposed to preserve and better the breed, and they clearly are not. There is only so much research someone can do on their own while searching for a pup, and this breeder puts on a good show... at some point, you have to assume the people you're talking with are telling you the truth.

But what can I do?
Contact the USDA asap and your state attorney general
This post has generated quite a bit of views and responses, and some of the back-and-forth has been emotionally charged. But...
  • "I know of a breeder that is pretty unethical."
  • "They breed sick dogs."
  • "are away [editorial: "aware"?] that the puppies they are giving away are predisposed to having major GI issues."
  • "I know they have upwards of 15 breeding dogs."
  • "I'm pretty sure they lie about a lot of their clearances."
  • "They...are basically con artists..."
  • "They stud out their sire that has tainted lines..."
All of the statements above are concerning, assuming they're true. But, without corroboration of some sort, they're not factual. They are the OP's opinions, presented as facts.
  • "They charge a fortune for their pups..."
  • "They give away breeding rights easily..."
These statements could also be concerning, but suffer the same "opinion presented as fact" characterization. Additionally, assuming these specific statements are factually correct, I'm unsure how this drives to the original argument.

Please understand. I am not saying that the OP is not sincere in their concerns. Neither am I attempting to insinuate that the OP is deliberately lying. However, it is possible for a person to be sincerely and wrong. It's also possible for a person to have a bad experience, and have that experience color the entirety of their perceptions.

I get it. The breeder-in-question does not appear to be following the GRCA's code-of-ethics for all their dogs. I'm a newb, and even I was able to determine that. But, shouldn't that be a concern for the individual consumer? In my own search, it was not difficult to find the back-yard breeder who not only didn't follow the GRCA's code-of-ethics, but effectively demonstrated disdain for those who do.

Bottom line...

The OP's post was emotionally charged, and easy to get behind from a moral standpoint. But, it was also flawed, and, absent substantiation, could be libelous. I'm just asking, wouldn't it be a good idea to take a minute to separate the emotion-for-the-breed from the potential responses?
 

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I get it. The breeder-in-question does not appear to be following the GRCA's code-of-ethics for all their dogs. I'm a newb, and even I was able to determine that. But, shouldn't that be a concern for the individual consumer? In my own search, it was not difficult to find the back-yard breeder who not only didn't follow the GRCA's code-of-ethics, but effectively demonstrated disdain for those who do.

To this statement, no imo. It is very difficult for the average puppy buyer to look at what is available on OFA or a website and be able to discern what is missing or less than as safe as can be. So maybe you (clearly an intelligent studier of many things, you have a wonderful way with your words!) can see through the rhetoric and misinformation but most people cannot do this. Emotion- unless one is relaying something that happened to them- has no place. I did not go back 5 pages and re-read the comments, but to that one sentence, I disagree. Most individual consumers need the help.
 
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It is very difficult for the average puppy buyer to look at what is available on OFA or a website and be able to discern what is missing or less than as safe as can be.
Appreciate your kind words. For what it's worth, I am a product of the information age, and my profession has given me opportunity to hone my Google-foo.

We had been thinking about goldens for more than two years, so I had time to "casually research" the breed, issues, and breeders.

One of my first surprises was that the local Golden Retriever Club did not have a list of "recommended breeders" the complied with the GRCA code-of-ethics. However, their rationale was sound. "Breeder compliance" could change, and the "real concern" was "litter compliance". So, if a breeder submitted paperwork on an upcoming litter, the local club would research the mom/dad and, subject to confirming compliance with GRCA guidelines (and, I'm assuming, other "breeder-type concerns"), the local club would list the litter. Unfortunately, in practical terms this is not helpful to the "average consumer". As others have already pointed out, the line of people for such a litter is already long. The litter which included our Kona would not have been recommended by the local club (an out-of-date eye cert, cardiacs done by practitioner vice cardiologist).

But, this eliminated any "this breeder, that breeder" discussions. The recommendation was strictly on the basis of research done on the mom/dad. For what it's worth, aside from the presumed line of people waiting for such a litter, the very fact that the breeder was confident enough to submit the information for review/verification likely weeded many breeders out of this process.

I'd like to believe that people would be willing/able to do some basic Google and find much of this information themselves. In my experience, the first hit was on the local club (Googling "golden retriever" and my city), which led to the national club, which led to OFAs. Of course, it did require some reading, but I'd estimate that the "initial search and reading" was no more than four (4) to six (6) hours (including informational side trips to run down a specific topic). Sadly, I also recognize that too many want to be spoon fed.

I've perused "Choosing a Golden Retriever Breeder and Puppy", and this is an excellent resource. But, it's buried one layer into the forum. This sub-forum has some excellent stickies, and some of the discussions are exactly the fact-based discussions about litters that I think should be the focus.

Is there a way to highlight this sub-forum (move it to a top level), and emphasize/define it's purpose. It'd be uber-cool to emphasize a "tell us about the sire/dam, and we'll do some basic research for you". Even better (along the give-a-man-teach-a-man paradigm) would be a series of stickies on GRCA code-of-ethics and import, OFA grades and meaning, etc., all with links to sources.With some basic understanding of search engine optimization, it'd even be possible to name the various sticky posts so that they're easily found (e.g., Golden Retriever Buyer's Guide to [topic]).
 

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One thing I constantly think on the topic of buying a puppy is that this is a process in which the vast consumer experiences and knowledge is actually a detriment to the buyer.

I know buyers want it to be, but buying a well bred puppy will likely never be a comparable experience to buying nearly anything else. Honestly the closest thing in my opinion is buying a house and most people do not do that often enough to feel like the expert they do when buying a new phone, furniture, gym membership, or specialty drink.

Responsible preservation breeders are often all about the dogs while being very little about the business. That is generally who they are and when the door is being beaten down by puppy buyers, there is not much incentive for them to change.

This is a huge change in mind set for consumers because let’s face it, we are used to being the star of the show. Search for a new mug and your Facebook feed is full of ads about coffee, tea and mugs. Want to buy a specific product? You can shop several different online retailers or physical locations to get a better deal on the exact same product. Curious about a product or service? You can google and generally find an up to date website optimized for your use.

Buying a well bred puppy is just not that experience. Sure there are ads on a Facebook and more for breeders, sure there are attractive websites designed to elicit the warm fuzzy shopper feel but those are generally high volume commercial breeds with puppies available at all times. Those high volume breeders are often not going to have health certifications in place and most of time never mention health beyond the generic “healthy puppies” claim.

I think people enter in to the house buying experience with the knowledge houses are not directly comparable, they need to do more research, that they need to find experts to help them form termite inspectors, general house inspectors, title companies, etc. and that they may need to wait if they have needs beyond a place to live now.

I think this is one of the core issues with shopping for a puppy. Many approach it as buying a new phone without realizing the closest parallel consumer experience-wise is buying a house.
 

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One thing I constantly think on the topic of buying a puppy is that this is a process in which the vast consumer experiences and knowledge is actually a detriment to the buyer.

I know buyers want it to be, but buying a well bred puppy will likely never be a comparable experience to buying nearly anything else. Honestly the closest thing in my opinion is buying a house and most people do not do that often enough to feel like the expert they do when buying a new phone, furniture, gym membership, or specialty drink.

Responsible preservation breeders are often all about the dogs while being very little about the business. That is generally who they are and when the door is being beaten down by puppy buyers, there is not much incentive for them to change.

This is a huge change in mind set for consumers because let’s face it, we are used to being the star of the show. Search for a new mug and your Facebook feed is full of ads about coffee, tea and mugs. Want to buy a specific product? You can shop several different online retailers or physical locations to get a better deal on the exact same product. Curious about a product or service? You can google and generally find an up to date website optimized for your use.

Buying a well bred puppy is just not that experience. Sure there are ads on a Facebook and more for breeders, sure there are attractive websites designed to elicit the warm fuzzy shopper feel but those are generally high volume commercial breeds with puppies available at all times. Those high volume breeders are often not going to have health certifications in place and most of time never mention health beyond the generic “healthy puppies” claim.

I think people enter in to the house buying experience with the knowledge houses are not directly comparable, they need to do more research, that they need to find experts to help them form termite inspectors, general house inspectors, title companies, etc. and that they may need to wait if they have needs beyond a place to live now.

I think this is one of the core issues with shopping for a puppy. Many approach it as buying a new phone without realizing the closest parallel consumer experience-wise is buying a house.
Its the unfortunate reality of consumer marketing. I was consoling someone the other day who placed a deposit on a Border Collie puppy, only to find out later it was a scam. They had sent pictures of this gold and white dog with blue eyes. OP thought gold border collies were rare and wanted it. Then time past, person stopped replying etc. They showed me the website and wanted to warn other people. The website reads as follows:

"We are one of the first to ever breed Border Collies. We love what we do and have lots of experience to share. We are committed to the research, development and improvement of the Border Collie dog breed. We specialize and strive to produce healthy Companion, Therapy, and Service Dogs with wonderful temperaments. We breed well - adjusted, properly - socialized, sweet, loving Border Collie puppies with low to non-shedding, allergy friendly coats.

We are very happy with the mark we have made in the Breeding world so far and we are thrilled with the direction of our breeding program. We pride ourselves on providing loving homes and individuals with healthy, AKC registered and pet-degree puppies for Sale. we take pride in providing efficient and personal service, honestly, and reliability. Medical issues such as their shots and other vaccinations have been covered. Deworming has been taken care of, too. You leave with a new pup that's ready to be in his home once you have finished your dealing with us. There is no need to worry about anything else. You're free to enjoy your adopted puppy."

So many buzz words in there that the average person may not even know that no Border Collie anywhere in the world is being bred for anything this scammer was saying they're breeding for. The concept of "its how you raise them" has made it so now everyone thinks that every breed of dog is a good home for them and that its totally normal to say that they're breeding service BCs. I wish there was a better way to educate consumers.
 
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