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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
I'd like to get in touch with raw goldie owners/breeders in the UK. I'm also interested to hear from un vaccinated owners/breeders.
I understand this is 'controversial' so please pm me if you'd rather not post, I'm hoping for informed discussion on this topic.
My dog had primary course and boosters but has not been vaccinated since. I do not frontline and she is mostly raw with the addition of mixer biscuit as I find this keeps a bit of weight on her. I feed minced meat containing bone and offal and feed chicken wings/lamb bones, eggs, table scraps.
My dog is extremely healthy, I have fed kibble in the past which gave her a dull coat, more hair loss, bad breath, fat, waxy ears, itchy feet. This subsides on raw and I have tried all sorts of kibble. Some very expensive!!
We don't travel extensively with our dog but I am relying on good health for a strong immune system. Have any un vaccinated dogs suffered auto immune problems including cancer?
I am constantly researching this area and would like to hear from other UK non vaccinated goldie people if possible.
 

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Tom is vaccinated every year but I must admit I've never been happy with the idea, will be watching this thread as I'd be very interested as to what comments you get.

Welcom to the forum by the way
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello and thank you, I've been reading the posts on this forum for a while and wanted to speak to other retriever owners about this.
I'm especially interested in contraindications to vaccinations. The Merck manual lists allergies as a contraindications yet this is ignored with a lot of dogs.
Also if you contrast natural immunity to disease in humans with dogs, I'm a little worried about where we are going. Measles was declining in incidence and severity in the UK and the introduction of a vaccine in the UK wad thoroughly objected to by many.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry got interrupted by kids!!!
Many people now only have a form of vaccinated immunity which is not a lifelong immunity and possibly not good enough to protect from a wild virus. Vaccination has changed the demographics of the disease, affecting the very you g and the elderly now. The most worrying thing is that mothers who have not had the disease natuy can no longer confer immunity to their babies which is thought to last for about 12-18 months post partum.
Just some thoughts anyway.
 

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I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but for clarity's sake: measles is on the rise in the UK because of the anti-vaccine movement, not because the vaccine doesn't work. It's a matter of historical record that the measles vaccine took the disease from a common childhood illness to a rare one until the now-discredited Wakefield paper helped create a large group of unvaccinated children. In Britain, where there are more unvaccinated kids per capita, the disease is making a resurgence.

Despite the utter and complete destruction of his work in the peer review process, people still tend to believe that vaccines are far more dangerous than they are.

I would hate to see something similar happen with serious dog illnesses because people were afraid of the cure being worse than the disease.
 

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Would you consider doing a titer on your dog to check for immunity levels?

I use Advocate cautiously because my dog spends alot of time at the park. I think it is important as an owner that I am not passing parasites off in a public place where it could affect other dogs.
 

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Vaccination is a 'hot topic' here and my vet gives boosters every 3 years for Distemper etc but it is essential to vaccinated for leptospirosis on an annual basis as it is a dead vaccine. and has a short lifepsan. Lepto is common in the UK due to high rat population (ugh) and is a killer. I feed minced meat and biscuit having changed from complete diet last year The dogs look better I think. I would be very wary not to give lepto vaccination but it is certainly possible (although very expensive) to titre test immunity levels for the other diseases. Be aware though that boarding kennels and some training classes will not accept unvaccinated dogs and that many reactions attributed to the vaccination are hearsay rather than scentific proof. Me, mine are vaccinated according to my vets- could I bear to lose a dog from parvo/ distemper CVH when they could be protected - no Annef
 

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Where The Bitches Rule
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Dr Ronald Schultz has determined that once a dog has established immunities from distemper and/or parvovirus they never again need a booster vax for that. So after your pup has it final round of puppy shots you do a titre for those things and if the resullts show the pup has a sufficient titre to be be immune to those it never again needs to be vax for them. I believe the normal span between the last puppy shot and titre should be a minimum of 10 days. Here is a link to a reprint of an article on the subject.
Puppy Shots
Dr Schultz is a pioneer in the field of animal vaccinations and is one of the major driving forces behind the Rabies Challenge Fund ( http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/ )
 

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Thanks for the info, Hank. The only proviso I would add is that I would be cautious in following the recommendations of a single doctor, researcher, or research team. Those who followed Wakefield, for example, were very badly burned because he turned out to have an agenda that led him to manipulate his findings.

The process of advancing treatment protocols and other scientific endeavors is discipline-wide. Findings have to be repeated, questioned, challenged, repeated again, replicated independently, and studied long-term before they can really be trusted.

I'm just advocating caution, not saying that Schultz isn't doing extraordinary work.
 

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Vaccination is a 'hot topic' here and my vet gives boosters every 3 years for Distemper etc but it is essential to vaccinated for leptospirosis on an annual basis as it is a dead vaccine. and has a short lifepsan. Lepto is common in the UK due to high rat population (ugh) and is a killer. I feed minced meat and biscuit having changed from complete diet last year The dogs look better I think. I would be very wary not to give lepto vaccination but it is certainly possible (although very expensive) to titre test immunity levels for the other diseases. Be aware though that boarding kennels and some tr aining classes will not accept unvaccinated dogs and that many reactions attributed to the vaccination are hearsay rather than scentific proof. Me, mine are vaccinated according to my vets- could I bear to lose a dog from parvo/ distemper CVH when they could be protected - no Annef
My vet is adament also about the Lepto vaccine. That is not something we routinely do in the US but when we arrived in the UK they insisted that it was important, especially when our dogs spend alot of time in the fields and parks. The rivers are also frequented by the lovely rats. I know you also mentioned that you don't do Frontline or I assume any other topical. I hope you are aware of the strong potential for lungworm, especially with snails and slugs in the Garden. This is a great topic by the way and I forgot to say..Welcome to the Forum!
 

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Not in the uk, but in Texas. i also lost KayCee to her 2ed set of annual vax, and my vet believe it was the lepto. however, he decided she would get no more vaccinations of any kind ther than law required rabies....unless there was an outbreak of one of the diseases. here has neverbeen a report case of lyme down here, and one case of lepto. by the way KayCee had never had a problem with any of her puppy for 1set set of annual vax, but that 2ed set at 2 1/2 almost killed her. shows you never know what disaster (or sudden allergy) could strike


honey gets niehter o those vax, and in fact, rickey says from now on, rabies will be it for her. she is between 9 1/2 and 10 years old. rikcey feels when a dog reaches that age, and they have had vax over the years, they are fully immune.

i know tis is a hard subject--vaccinate and hope all goes well, do not vaccinate and hope all goes well. good luck no matter which way you go.
 

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I think titres are a strong compromise for those who are nervous about vaccination. You make sure your dog has immunity, but you don't give more shots than are strictly necessary.

I agree here. I would never recommend a limited/no vaccination schedule to anyone without also recommending they do titres every 3 years, if not every year. My dogs will be having their titres taken and sent to Dr. Dodds this summer and we will see how their immunity is. Neither has had a vaccine in 3 years. They will be having their titres done when they go in for their 3 year Rabies vaccine as required by law.
 

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Stark is raw fed (weaned to raw) and minimally vaccinated as well.

I follow Dr. Dodds protocol to a point:

W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS

9 - 10 weeks
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy DPV)
14 weeks
Same as above
16 -18 weeks (optional)
Same as above
20 weeks or older, if allowable by law
Rabies
1 year
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV
1 year
Rabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)


Instead of re-vaccinating at 1 year (Distemper and Parvo, MLV) I titer for it. I do give rabies every 3 years though and titer at that time for the others.
 

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If we were to follow the three year plan and have titre testing done, how does that stand us with our pet insurance, we're with petplan in the UK? I don't have the policy infront of me right now but I'm sure I read in there that my dog must be vaccinated and have it's usual vet checks etc otherwise the insurance is void. Will they accept that a three year vaccination plan with titre testing is an acceptable health management plan for my dog? And does anyone know how much titre testing costs in the UK?
 

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I don't know the cost but I do remember it costs more than the vaccine. I think you need to contact Pet Plan to ask about insurance cover Some may cover but not give you cover for any disease which could be vaccinated against. When I have claimed on insurance they have always asked for the date of the last vaccination.
With regard to flea control and lung worm I believe (but stand to be corrected on this one) that Fendenazole (Panacur) is effective against lungworm and now include this in the Spring in my worming regime. annef
 

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If we were to follow the three year plan and have titre testing done, how does that stand us with our pet insurance, we're with petplan in the UK? I don't have the policy infront of me right now but I'm sure I read in there that my dog must be vaccinated and have it's usual vet checks etc otherwise the insurance is void. Will they accept that a three year vaccination plan with titre testing is an acceptable health management plan for my dog? And does anyone know how much titre testing costs in the UK?
I'm not in the UK, but with my conversations with the US PetPlan, it sounded like if your vet recommended something and you didn't do it (say a lepto vaccination), they would not cover it. Definitely contact them and when you pick your vet, make sure the vet fully supports your ideas otherwise you may end up with recommendations that PetPlan can use in their favor.
 
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Just an update from today. It's an article about the spike in measles cases in the UK. Relevant to our conversation is the comment about the people who actually caught it: "The vast majority had not had the vaccine against the disease."

It's not a failure of the vaccine but rather the public's mistrust of vaccines that leads to kids' getting sick. Less than 90% of kids in the UK get the MMR vaccine.

People who exaggerate the dangers of vaccines are creating a public health threat. Be careful when you pass along information you've found on the internet. If your information is incorrect or distorted, you may be responsible for a child or a dog becoming very ill.
 

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I'm not in the UK, but with my conversations with the US PetPlan, it sounded like if your vet recommended something and you didn't do it (say a lepto vaccination), they would not cover it. Definitely contact them and when you pick your vet, make sure the vet fully supports your ideas otherwise you may end up with recommendations that PetPlan can use in their favor.

That is the same information I got out of a conversation with Pet Plan (USA, not UK). I discussed with my vet and had it put in my dogs' file that the vet recommends titre testing instead of annual vaccines should it ever come up during an insurance claim. Of course if the titres were to show low immunity, the vaccine would be given at that time.
 
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