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Discussion Starter #61
Yes thank you! When I was reading the book, it was Bertie and Jodi I thought of with correct coat. I think partly because you share so many photos of them in water and playing and running and it is very easy to see how their coat functions. I love seeing their pictures :)

The open makes a lot more sense now! I think part of the reason I was confused about all of them is I don't have much reference. I think I'm going to ask to put my hand's on an Irish Setter next time I see one to just feel the actual silky coat. Some of those guys have crazy coat 馃くBut it sounds like there is some variety in Golden coat types as long as they are all tight fitting over the undercoat and without excess.

Are dogs with incorrect coat ever shown in the ring?
 

Kate
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Are dogs with incorrect coat ever shown in the ring?
YES.

Definitely have seen dogs with open coats - sometimes they are groomed that way.

Have seen excessive coats being shown - both ends of excessive.
 

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The judge Pat Trotter has a witty way of explaining about flashy dogs. She says never put up a dog who is " good icing on a bad cake" . By that she means there are some dogs who look splashy flashy, but have incorrect or mediocre structure/ movement/ type. ( She calls them "foolers").

In the top dogs, like some of the ones pictured, you have a good icing on a good cake.

Goldens are so competitive that a dog who fares well in top twenty competition is good enough to be shown to most, if not all, comers. While a judge might have a niche style of dog he especially promotes, big winning dogs have to be solid enough in movement, breed type, and structure ( whatever style they are) to get the nod from many judges of many philosophies on many days. Even if a judge has a style he/she prefers or opinions about grooming, in the end each special is subject to a long-term vote by consensus. By the time a golden retriever is a top twenty dog, the eyes of many, many longtime dog men and women with differing tastes and rationales have carefully assessed and chosen the dog from amidst good peers. You're not likely to find a merely generic or a merely flashy dog without merit going that far, whether or not you like or dont like the dog's style.
 
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Discussion Starter #64
This is excellent information, thank you!! I think I have been seeing and understanding that more and more. I've also come to admire how much work the handlers and breeding put into training and preparing their dogs for the ring. I have been trying to take in everything I can as fast as I can and it is slowly starting to come together. I have been watching the top winners, watching specialties from the years, and seeing how each judge determines what. And also how much handling can affect the image of the dog.

Our handling class handler was telling me (as I mentioned that I was thinking about entering a circuit in the next few months) that I should wait, because he's beautiful and his front is lovely, but he has to get broader and fill out before he is competitive. She said back when she first started showing, nobody showed puppies, you brought mature adult dogs. Nowadays, everybody is showing their puppy, but because of COVID, people had to wait however many months to take their puppies out so now it is wonderful adult dogs. She said it is back like it was when she first started showing.

I see all the top dogs and I see mature, good moving dogs, even if sometimes a certain judge prefers one thing over another.
 

Kate
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For me showing a pup or young dog is about giving him experience and time in the ring, so when he's ready to win.... you've got a dog who is completely ready to go, including mentally.

At class which I probably am going to tomorrow night.... there's people with 4-6 month old pups who normally would be showing quite a bit or coming along to shows. The dogs are missing out on socialization and getting used to the noises and stuff that's part of dog shows.

For obedience... many people have gotten away from bringing dogs out to big noisy shows when they are puppies and even as adults, the dogs really can't handle it. So you've got more and more obedience competitors who won't enter noisy or crowded shows.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
For me showing a pup or young dog is about giving him experience and time in the ring, so when he's ready to win.... you've got a dog who is completely ready to go, including mentally.

At class which I probably am going to tomorrow night.... there's people with 4-6 month old pups who normally would be showing quite a bit or coming along to shows. The dogs are missing out on socialization and getting used to the noises and stuff that's part of dog shows.

For obedience... many people have gotten away from bringing dogs out to big noisy shows when they are puppies and even as adults, the dogs really can't handle it. So you've got more and more obedience competitors who won't enter noisy or crowded shows.
I am hoping to be able to enter him anyway, it would be good for him and I. I would consider Felix a more "on" dog than some of the other puppies. We were at handling class Monday night and there was a 6 mo lab puppy there (first time at class) who was calm, didn't even really want to move, was just all around lazy puppy and Felix's instructor refers to him as the "out of control Golden" lol.
 

Maegan
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I am hoping to be able to enter him anyway, it would be good for him and I. I would consider Felix a more "on" dog than some of the other puppies. We were at handling class Monday night and there was a 6 mo lab puppy there (first time at class) who was calm, didn't even really want to move, was just all around lazy puppy and Felix's instructor refers to him as the "out of control Golden" lol.
Don鈥檛 feel bad, a lot of show labs are total slugs. Eevee used to be a bat out of hell in class, and now she鈥檚 calm enough at shows that a friend of mine thinks she鈥檚 actually chill. LOL Which is not the case, I鈥檝e just taught her to be chill at shows so that I can, you know, actually show her. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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