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Maegan
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671 Posts
Wow that is a good point! I guess when they're uncooperative you have to just ride it out and hope it's better next time. Are there ever penalties for unruly or disruptive behavior, maybe in young dogs? Or do judges tend to be forgiving?
Here’s a humble brag story for you on this subject: Last October we were at a two day show that sometimes gets majors, sometimes not. It tends to conflict with the Golden National. Anyway, it was Eevee’s second weekend of real shows and we were in the 6-9 class. The first day, she was a total spazz. Almost jumped out of the ring to greet another dog (it was way too close anyway, and this venue has really low ring dividers), wiggled during her exam, galloped on the down and back and on the go around, and got last in her class (4th/4). The next day she was a totally different dog! She walked in like she owned the place, stood still for her exam, flew around the ring like she was an experienced special, and proceeded to win her class. We go in for Winners and she is just on. Nails everything the judge asks us to do and then takes home WB for 2 points. Moral of the story is that no, judges don’t officially penalize you for a puppy being a puppy. It really does depend on which version of your dog goes into the ring with you. Sometimes that depends a lot on you. If I relax, she relaxes and shows like a pro. If I’m nervous, she’s an *******. Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Thank you all!!

I know Felix is going to be absolutely awful, so I'm glad nobody will hold it against me lol. Do you find Eevee was sillier at bigger shows or smaller shows? Or was it just random?
 

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Maegan
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671 Posts
Thank you all!!

I know Felix is going to be absolutely awful, so I'm glad nobody will hold it against me lol. Do you find Eevee was sillier at bigger shows or smaller shows? Or was it just random?
Random. She started going to shows at 7 months, so I’m sure Felix will be fine. She behaves pretty well now most of the time. I do gallop her outside the ring sometime to get it out of her system. Lol
 
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Discussion Starter #44
God I hope so lol I'll be sure to get videos, he's certainly full of himself
 

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Kate
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Random. She started going to shows at 7 months, so I’m sure Felix will be fine. She behaves pretty well now most of the time. I do gallop her outside the ring sometime to get it out of her system. Lol
Do you know if the Lima show in Oct is still on??? I'm debating about entering the show (or trying to) in hopes of getting in this time... am reaching out to the super to see what's going on + get a premium from them if I can. (things are just so weird right now).

Kinda on subject a little... the judge on Sat (Judith Brown) gave Jovi a major reserve (4 point major) back in January. He moved his feet and gave her googoo eyes when I was trying to get him to stand still during the exam. ;) He did move beautifully - it's one thing I'm griping about this whole summer is that he found his groove for gaiting vs dragging me around.

I think the take away is if your dog's issue is setting up and baiting well for the judge, you might be OK with most judges.

If your dog's issue is gaiting and really does a lot of clowning around instead of moving nice -you might get dumped out there.

Glee got 2nd in his class even while I approached the judge with an apology stating that he didn't know how to stand still. He was full of puppy wiggles - but gaited perfectly. Judge had a good laugh about the wiggles and puppy behavior - and I was very proud in retrospect at how serious he was going around the ring. <= again, movement's is pretty important with this breed.
 

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Maegan
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671 Posts
Do you know if the Lima show in Oct is still on??? I'm debating about entering the show (or trying to) in hopes of getting in this time... am reaching out to the super to see what's going on + get a premium from them if I can. (things are just so weird right now).

Kinda on subject a little... the judge on Sat (Judith Brown) gave Jovi a major reserve (4 point major) back in January. He moved his feet and gave her googoo eyes when I was trying to get him to stand still during the exam. ;) He did move beautifully - it's one thing I'm griping about this whole summer is that he found his groove for gaiting vs dragging me around.

I think the take away is if your dog's issue is setting up and baiting well for the judge, you might be OK with most judges.

If your dog's issue is gaiting and really does a lot of clowning around instead of moving nice -you might get dumped out there.

Glee got 2nd in his class even while I approached the judge with an apology stating that he didn't know how to stand still. He was full of puppy wiggles - but gaited perfectly. Judge had a good laugh about the wiggles and puppy behavior - and I was very proud in retrospect at how serious he was going around the ring. <= again, movement's is pretty important with this breed.
As of right now, Lima is happening. I got in when they rescheduled it the first time and kept my entry. I heard that a lot of people backed out when they rescheduled the second time.
 

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Kate
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Dang - looks like they reached limits for the show and it's closed. :(

Really sad to go a whole year without showing. :( There's a show about 1/2 hour west of me here in MI but because of our (omitting colorful descriptive word) governor, likely will not happen. Have been debating entering the show just to have our foot inside the door if by miracle it does happen. o_O
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Do you know if the Lima show in Oct is still on??? I'm debating about entering the show (or trying to) in hopes of getting in this time... am reaching out to the super to see what's going on + get a premium from them if I can. (things are just so weird right now).

Kinda on subject a little... the judge on Sat (Judith Brown) gave Jovi a major reserve (4 point major) back in January. He moved his feet and gave her googoo eyes when I was trying to get him to stand still during the exam. ;) He did move beautifully - it's one thing I'm griping about this whole summer is that he found his groove for gaiting vs dragging me around.

I think the take away is if your dog's issue is setting up and baiting well for the judge, you might be OK with most judges.

If your dog's issue is gaiting and really does a lot of clowning around instead of moving nice -you might get dumped out there.

Glee got 2nd in his class even while I approached the judge with an apology stating that he didn't know how to stand still. He was full of puppy wiggles - but gaited perfectly. Judge had a good laugh about the wiggles and puppy behavior - and I was very proud in retrospect at how serious he was going around the ring. <= again, movement's is pretty important with this breed.
I honestly think the first show is gonna be quite hilarious for onlookers and quite traumatizing for me lol but it's to be expected. I think he'll stand well, but gaiting is something we struggle with at home, I just know he's going to be wild going around the first few times. I like to joke that he wants to gait like a GSD. I'm hoping when we go to Blue Rose, they can help me figure out his rhythm and the best way to present him.
 

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2 winters ago I had a friend bring home a new obedience, agility, hunt test prospect. My friend had never owned anything but obedience/hunt test/agility dogs. Anyway she bring home this pup and we had the opportunity to hang out. I convinced her to go to a show and go class because I thought her pup was cute. My friend thought that show and go would be good for future obedience trial competitions. I watched that 5 month old pup run around the ring, and knew she was a star. The owner had no idea at all what she had. I convinced her to get her ready to show. I also talked to her about using a pro, which she was ok with. I set her up with Lucy's pro (we do ring side hand offs here). My friend after much badgering entered her girl. She finished in no time with ring side hand offs. We have very few shows here in Alaska. Then the virus hit. We finally had a couple of show weekends in July. Pup is now 1.5 years old. She took Select in 5 out of 6 shows she was entered in. It was all in her attitude. She knew she was a big shot and she threw attitude like nobody's business. She isn't the prettiest girl, but she was all about look at me, and she new how to stand out. We have one more one day show in Alaska from August through March, I'm crossing my fingers that she takes BOB and finishes her GCh in November. Attitude is absolutely the thing that sets dogs apart. And the owner, well she still can't count points and had absolutely no idea what Select means, but her pro keeps her informed about being 3/4 of the way to GCh. All my friend thinks about is the next hunt test or agility trial.

I used to show Lucy. She hated the show ring. We did very poorly. She was bored and I was petrified to be in the show ring. Bad combination. Set her up with a pro (ring side hand off) and that's when she got points. I had a dream that I could finish my own dog. I was sadly mistaken. Some people show their own dogs well, and a lot do not.

I'd suggest using a pro. It's way less stressful. When my Ruby was in the ring last month, I handed her off to the same pro. I was super happy to sit and watch.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Attitude is born and not made.
 

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I relate to what you share, as when I handle my boy Monty for practice he looks terrible. When my friend tries to handle and stack him his entire demeanour changes and he looks presentable, so I've been suggested to use a handler for him. I've been told that he 'bullies' me if that makes sense hahah. I hope with more practice Monty & I can be a good owner handler team and at least not look silly, definitely a work in progress, all in good fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #51
I worry my anxiety is going to pass onto Felix and I may need a handler just so he doesn't pick up on that. I've always preferred watching others ride my horses anyway rather than competing myself 😅

I worry about a variety of things, but I guess only time will tell his attitude towards the ring and my ability to show him. In the end, hopefully by the time he starts showing, if I can't show him well, maybe I can afford a handler
 

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I totally get the anxiety. Lucy always got a hot spot or 3 in the days before a show. My husband always told me my anxiety went right down the leash to my dog, and that's why she got hot spots.
 

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Kristy
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Yep, especially the part where he describes how incorrect the temperament is of most Goldens in the show ring...saying they are not supposed to be on their toes, in your face dogs. They are the "good ol' boys" of the sporting dog world.
I had the honor of showing to him at Tito's very first show. 150+ Goldens entered.
Tito was basically ungroomed, and neither he nor I had a clue what we were doing. We were in a class of 12 or so dogs, and he gave Tito 4th. Told me I had a really fine dog.
It was my first show (nothing like jumping in with both feet!). No idea what to do or expect. I literally didn't have a grooming table, didn't bring a blow dryer, nothing. Just combed him out at home then jumped in the car and drove. It was a benched show, and he chilled out on top of his crate since I had no table.
When our class went in the ring, Mr. Beauchamp looked at all the dogs and did the basic stuff. He never gave Tito a second look. I was devastated. He had many of them gait a second time, but not me, just sent us to the end of the line. I was close to tears, thinking I must have a really, really awful dog, and how stupid I was for thinking I could do this.
Imagine my shock when he gave us 4th place!!
I told my conformation instructor, who knew Beauchamp well, and he just laughed. He said, oh, Rich knows the best dogs in the ring from the moment they walk in. Then he just looks closer at the ones he's pretty much eliminated, to be sure he didn't miss something.
For fun, here's Tito at his first show. Note my idea of having my dog ready when the judge is looking them all over lol. Sorry it's blurry but you can tell he's pretty well ungroomed.
What a fun, wonderful memory to hold. I am so glad you shared it here, I don't think I've ever seen you mention it. That's the good stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Can someone talk to me about backline? I know the standard says it should be a "level" backline to a lightly sloping croup. And then a sloping backline is to be faulted. But I think my idea of level and what is actually level is not correct.
 

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Maegan
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When you look at an illustration of a Golden broken into thirds, the middle third of the topline should be perfectly level - as in you should be able to set a glass of water on it and it won't lean or spill. This section of the topline should always be level, especially on the move. You should be able to picture that same glass of water on the back of the dog as they move and see it not spill. You can hand stack and/or groom a dog to hide some topline flaws, but they will usually out when the dog is on the move. If a dog looks slopey while stacked, but the topline is level while moving, it can (not necessarily always) be an indication that the dog was squatting in the stack.

If the topline slopes toward the rear for instance, that is an indication of a lack of balance: the front assembly is too straight, the rear assembly is over angulated, or both. If you have seen the illustration of the parallel triangles, both triangles should be right triangles, but it is possible for a balanced dog to have improper, but matching angles in front and rear and still have a level topline. If you see a topline that is "butt high" in an adult dog (many puppies go through a butt high stage around 5-7 months) it is also an indication of a lack of balance: the rear is too straight and the front is properly angulated. Then there are roachy toplines which are just yucky on a Golden. This has to do with the curvature of the spine if I'm not mistaken, but could be a symptom of another anatomical flaw. I have most often seen swaybacked toplines on dogs that are too long in the loin. You will often see swaybacked toplines on older dogs that are too long in the loin as their muscles deteriorate and can no longer properly support the spine. Hope this helps! and hope I'm not way off base, but this is my understanding of the causes of various topline faults.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
When you look at an illustration of a Golden broken into thirds, the middle third of the topline should be perfectly level - as in you should be able to set a glass of water on it and it won't lean or spill. This section of the topline should always be level, especially on the move. You should be able to picture that same glass of water on the back of the dog as they move and see it not spill. You can hand stack and/or groom a dog to hide some topline flaws, but they will usually out when the dog is on the move. If a dog looks slopey while stacked, but the topline is level while moving, it can (not necessarily always) be an indication that the dog was squatting in the stack.

If the topline slopes toward the rear for instance, that is an indication of a lack of balance: the front assembly is too straight, the rear assembly is over angulated, or both. If you have seen the illustration of the parallel triangles, both triangles should be right triangles, but it is possible for a balanced dog to have improper, but matching angles in front and rear and still have a level topline. If you see a topline that is "butt high" in an adult dog (many puppies go through a butt high stage around 5-7 months) it is also an indication of a lack of balance: the rear is too straight and the front is properly angulated. Then there are roachy toplines which are just yucky on a Golden. This has to do with the curvature of the spine if I'm not mistaken, but could be a symptom of another anatomical flaw. I have most often seen swaybacked toplines on dogs that are too long in the loin. You will often see swaybacked toplines on older dogs that are too long in the loin as their muscles deteriorate and can no longer properly support the spine. Hope this helps! and hope I'm not way off base, but this is my understanding of the causes of various topline faults.
Yes it helps! So between the withers and the ilium? It would be level -> should not slope towards the ilium? I think there is either an illusion or I just didn't understand what exactly constituted the part in question because I kept seeing what I thought was a slope and then one I thought was level with considered rear high. The rear should fall below the withers or be level with the withers?
 

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Maegan
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671 Posts
Can you show us what you're talking about?
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Does anyone have examples of incorrect coat quality? Is this something that you can see or is it something that you have to put hands on the dogs? The blue book mentions several kinds of incorrect coat qualities, but the drawings aren't super helpful for me outside of minorly. Anything from an "open" coat, to a coat that is too long and silky, etc.
 

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Kate
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This is kinda what I think of when I hear the term open coat.

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And then correct coat. Think about the outer coat like a slicker or sweater fitting tightly over the undercoat. You don't want to see undercoat. This could be even a coat with flippies like Bertie's coat or really tight/smooth coat like Jovi's.

Texture of a correct coat - it's not what you would describe as silky or rough coated or wooly....

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Other examples =

Silky -

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Wooly/Cottony -

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Excessive (too much) -

(also thinner but denser hairs)

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Excessive (too little)

(also wiry feel)

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