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Riot's mom
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Discussion Starter #1
I wasn't sure where to put this, because it isn't next week yet. So I decided to start my own thread :) As those of you reading the other thread know, Riot and I have been struggling a bit recently with lining to the long pile for the start of the T. So today, my goal was three good ones then quit, because I wanted to send one from the side and both directions from a front send. Well, the first two were great. Then the third was a no go. Then more and more no goes. Running a weird route to the pile, walking, popping, messing with the bumpers, etc. Everything wrong. GAH!!! Put out a new pile. Took a breath. Sent him and it was beautiful! What the heck?? The only thing that was different was that I didn't have another bumper in my hand because they were all in the pile. So, I started throwing them behind us in a pile. TADA!!! Beautiful with no problems for the next four, so I quit. I wanted to strangle him because it was so ridiculous, but I couldn't because he was being such a good dog.

::sigh:: Well, I guess we will have to see what happens tomorrow. I'll let you all know.
 

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the party's crashing us
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So you have been holding the bumpers he brings back, or what? Yes throwing them behind you is kind of SOP :)
If he gives more no-gos he needs more force. Turn up the dial. Many dogs "fake it" through the initial stages of FTP with very little pressure. When it gets physically demanding (longer back pile w/ more repetitions) they show their true colors. Sounds harsh but more pressure gets them through it and the results are eye opening on how much they were sandbagging before.
That said, holding a bumper in your hand and trying to send, obviously can give you some interesting results! LOL
 

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where the tails wag
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How does your trainer suggest you deal with No-go's?
 

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Riot's mom
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Discussion Starter #5
So you have been holding the bumpers he brings back, or what? Yes throwing them behind you is kind of SOP :)
Yup, thats exactly what I've been doing. :doh: But now I know. Poor guy must have been awfully confused. I hope that I haven't ruined him :(

If he gives more no-gos he needs more force. Turn up the dial. Many dogs "fake it" through the initial stages of FTP with very little pressure. When it gets physically demanding (longer back pile w/ more repetitions) they show their true colors. Sounds harsh but more pressure gets them through it and the results are eye opening on how much they were sandbagging before.
I've kind of been thinking of this. Especially considering that I solved the shopping problem with a few, higher intensity corrections. I think I'm going to see how things go now that I'm not holding the bumpers. After tomorrow, I will reevaluate.

What are you doing when you have the no-gos?
I have been doing a few different things. I have popped him forward, sat him, and then sent again. Sometimes even just a push on the top of his head gets him going. Sometimes I have to walk into him if he is in the front. I have discovered that this is a HARD part of field training, mostly because I've never done this before. I basically try anything I can to get him moving...
 

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Ok, so I am new at this myself but if he is force fetched then I think you treat no-gos, popping, etc as a failure to retrieve and ear pinch to the pile. When you start forcing and this happens (freezing, etc) you do the same to teach them what you want.
 

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Riot's mom
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Discussion Starter #7
Ok, so I am new at this myself but if he is force fetched then I think you treat no-gos, popping, etc as a failure to retrieve and ear pinch to the pile. When you start forcing and this happens (freezing, etc) you do the same to teach them what you want.
That makes sense. Unfortunately, I never got any no-goes on FTP, which is when I knew I should pinch to the pile. I guess I didn't connect that with starting on the T.

This morning, I pulled myself out of bed and did some training in a light rain. His first send was wonderful. He ran out to the pile like it was a mark. Second send was slow. Third send was a no-go. Erg! So I decided to go back to a small, short (15 yds) pile and turn up the collar level a little bit. Then we went back to the long T pile. I finally got some drive! He gave me four good ones and then we quit. I was happy with that. If it stops raining later today, I may take him out for another short session to see if the momentum continues. If not, I will probably go back to a short pile and then quit after that. We shall see.
 

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Third send was a no-go.
That one would have been, walk a few feet towards the pile Here Burn Here, reheel send with Back Nick Back. That doesn't work, ear pinch to pile then repeat with a shorter distance then start backing up. I personally Back Nick Back if I see the dog slow down due to lack of effort (as in your description of the second send) when I see them start to bounce or head swing. My .02
 

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Riot's mom
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Discussion Starter #9
That one would have been, walk a few feet towards the pile Here Burn Here, reheel send with Back Nick Back. That doesn't work, ear pinch to pile then repeat with a shorter distance then start backing up. I personally Back Nick Back if I see the dog slow down due to lack of effort (as in your description of the second send) when I see them start to bounce or head swing. My .02
Thanks for the advise!

Our second session yesterday went very well. I think going back to the shorter pile and reminding him about the pressure has been helpful. I'm going to try the "here nick here" next time I have a no-go.
 

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Actually it is Heel Burn Heel. Here would be the wrong word.
 
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Riot's mom
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Discussion Starter #11
Actually it is Heel Burn Heel. Here would be the wrong word.
Riot isn't CCed to heel. So I feel that might be confusing for him. Would here work in that case?
 

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the party's crashing us
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Riot isn't CCed to heel. So I feel that might be confusing for him. Would here work in that case?
I've never CC'd to heel with either of my dogs and have used heel-burn-heel. I don't think it matters in fact probably will help (that you haven't CC'd to heel). Although I will say I never use a collar correction for forging in heeling, that'd be telling the dog opposite things. Anyways.....
 
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