Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All:

I have a double question.

1. When a litter goes through temperant testing and they don't do as well as their littermates, what does that mean? For example: say a loud noise is introduced, the rest of the puppies run up to investigate, and one stays back....is that an undesirable trait? Any other traits that signal an undesirable puppy? I have 4 childrens, so a busy household!

2.More on the Iris Cyst PU issue:
I have a little more info:

Dam - eyes ok, mother( PU diagnosed at 6 yr), grandmother( PU diagnosed at 10 yr)
Sire - Iris Cyst, Sire's Father- Iris Cyst (so far no PU on either, Sire was born in 2007)

First, and foremost, I admire this paticular breeder for testing and posting the results. However, is this a litter that would be ok to pick from? Again, I am considering a couple different litters and am in no hurry, so looking for open and honest feedback. BTW, the Iris Cyst are in two litters that I have found...

Thanks for everyone's help!

kimmsq
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,195 Posts
I would be concerned about a puppy that is noise sensitive if you have a busy household with lots of children. I would also be very concerned about a puppy who is "pain sensitive".
What you really need is a calm, non-reactive puppy. One who runs up to investigate the noise. One who ignores having his/her toes pinched, or being held in your arms on his/her back.
Also do not get the most dominant nor the most submissive puppy in the litter. You want a middle of the road puppy.
A lot would disagree with me, but I have found the males to be more suitable than the females for households with lots of kids. That's a very broad generalization, and there are of course exceptions, but overall I've found the males to be more patient and tolerant than the females are.
I'd probably also want one that tested pretty high on "retrieving instinct" in a house with kids. More fun for the kids!
As far as the PU issue, we really don't know a lot about it at this time, but with both the mother and the grandmother diagnosed, I don't think I would take the chance. Having had my older golden go blind from PU, it scares me.
 

·
Where The Bitches Rule
Joined
·
6,429 Posts
I agree with a lot of Barbara posted above but would add one thing about the temperament testing. 7-8 week old pups are no different than anyone else. They can have their bad days also. If you think one of the pups is for you but does not test the way one would hope or expect, maybe see if another test can be done. I have seen the "stars" of one test become the "bottoms" of another and vice versa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,195 Posts
I totally agree with Hank, the temperament test is only one more piece of information but doesn't replace the knowledge a good breeder has about the temperament of each puppy. They have known them for 8 weeks, and will know which are dominant, which are submissive, which are higher energy, and so on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
869 Posts
I would be concerned about a puppy that is noise sensitive if you have a busy household with lots of children. I would also be very concerned about a puppy who is "pain sensitive".
What you really need is a calm, non-reactive puppy. One who runs up to investigate the noise. One who ignores having his/her toes pinched, or being held in your arms on his/her back.
Also do not get the most dominant nor the most submissive puppy in the litter. You want a middle of the road puppy.
A lot would disagree with me, but I have found the males to be more suitable than the females for households with lots of kids. That's a very broad generalization, and there are of course exceptions, but overall I've found the males to be more patient and tolerant than the females are.
I'd probably also want one that tested pretty high on "retrieving instinct" in a house with kids. More fun for the kids!
As far as the PU issue, we really don't know a lot about it at this time, but with both the mother and the grandmother diagnosed, I don't think I would take the chance. Having had my older golden go blind from PU, it scares me.

I don't hold a whole lot of stock in one temperament test. We have kids-and young ones so I know which puppies really seek out the kids and which puppies are a little more reserved with them. I think it is important for you to get a puppy from a breeder who spends a lot of time getting to know their puppies individual personalities and takes them different places rather than putting all your eggs in one basket with a temperament test done on one day. As Hank said, puppies have bad days and a breeder who knows their puppies, will know if that puppy is "off" that day and will still make the proper placement with the knowledge that they have gathered about the puppies over the entire 8 weeks they have been with the breeder. A temperament test is just one tool for evaluating puppies.

I suppose the word calm can mean different things to different people but calm to me, means more laid back and I wouldn't put a laid back puppy with in house with 4 kids. I know how much acitivity and noise is in a house with kids and a calm puppy is not going to be happy there. I am not saying you need a hyper puppy, either but more a puppy that is very confident and outgoing and what I call "bomb proof", meaning that not much bothers them and while they may react to something new, they bounce back very quickly and want to go investigate. A quiet, calm puppy can get very overwhelmed with that much activity going on.

I do agree that male dogs, overall, tend to do better in these situations. They seek out all that attention and there is never such a thing as too much for them. When my son was younger and there were 8-10 boys playing in the back yard, our male goldens were right there with them in the middle of the fray. The kids had even taught a couple of them to play football. The boys seem to have patience to burn and are super tolerant. The girls tend to be a little more reserved with this kind of activity level and will get up and walk away, so if you are looking for a puppy who is going to really enjoy spending time with your children, I would recommend a male puppy, as well. Again, this is not an absolute-more a generality.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,278 Posts
Hi Kimmy, I will echo what the others say regarding the temperament tests. I think they are a cute thing to do but probably don't mean a whole lot in the end. If the parents have the temperament you want then the puppies probably will too. Puppies have off days which can drastically affect their performance on a temperament test, along with who is doing the testing. I have seen several litters temperament tested and in the end it made a hill of beans worth of difference. The breeder should know the puppy's basic temperaments after living with them for 8 weeks!

Now as far as the eye stuff -- so wait, you asked about the iris cysts of the sire and grandsire but yet the mother's mother and grandmother have PU!?!?!?!?!?!!
Sorry but I think this breeding is incredibly risky and have no idea why someone would do it. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Having just gotten a puppy 5 weeks ago (he's 14 weeks old now) I agree with everything that folks are saying. The temperment test is a point in time and is minor compared to what the breeder knows from living with the litter for at least 8 weeks (well in my case).
She knew at 7 weeks old the puppy that was right for me based on all the information I provided her with (pages of email, 2 phone calls and a visit prior to any temperment test).
As of today I can say she made the perfect pick.

As for PU, I would walk (run) from a litter where the dam's mother and grandmother have PU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Having just gotten a puppy 5 weeks ago (he's 14 weeks old now) I agree with everything that folks are saying. The temperment test is a point in time and is minor compared to what the breeder knows from living with the litter for at least 8 weeks (well in my case).
She knew at 7 weeks old the puppy that was right for me based on all the information I provided her with (pages of email, 2 phone calls and a visit prior to any temperment test).
As of today I can say she made the perfect pick.

As for PU, I would walk (run) from a litter where the dam's mother and grandmother have PU.

Rhondas: I have been looking for myself and a friend. I am in the Pac NW, but my good friend is in MI. I see you are in IL. Which breeder did you use? Thank you for your advice. kimmysq
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,937 Posts
I don't do temperament testing as I have seen incorrect labels on puppies' temperaments.
I raise mine adjacent to the kitchen, so they hear pots and pans falling on the tile, the TV, the vacuum, piano playing, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
@kimmysq

The breeder is Jean Granger (Technique Goldens). I was drawn to the litter.
Here is the K9data link for Adin:

Pedigree: Technique's One of These Knights

You will see the sire is Springcreek Everlore All Time Hi, one of I believe maybe 36 Goldens with CH/MH and the dam is Technique's Go For Launch.

I can not say enough about Jean and the litter. SHe still has 2 males available which is hard to believe considering the breeding.

Adin has been an amazing puppy. He came home at 9 weeks old and just turned 14 weeks old. He has slept through the night since the third day home. He has been amazing at potty training. He already knows sit (sit back) , down (down back), come, stay, spin, circle, stand wait, leave it, out (to release any object) and can walk backwards. He actually has a 1 minute sit or down stay with some distractions. I have taken him into stores already. He hasn't mouthed. Walks decently on a leash.

We started Agility Foundations last week and Puppy Kindergarten tonight. He has been field training 3 times and loves pigeons and is retrieving to hand. He's also been introduced to tracking.

I can go on.... If you PM me I would be more than happy to provide additional information and pictures of Adin.

If you let me know the type of Golden your friend is looking for I can give some recommendations because I did a lot of research before going with this litter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,524 Posts
I do temperament testing and have found it to be a valuable addition to my evaluation of the puppies temperaments. I have also found it to be very accurate, but that may have a lot to do with with the evaluation-my friend Lori, who knows Goldens and knows my dogs, and is a very experienced trainer.

I will say that when we included Ingot the OES with the puppy evaluations of his Golden "littermates", we got absolutely nowhere. The test did not seem to work very well for him, although his breeder did tell me a year or so later that she was keeping him as a pet because he was so sweet, but had washed him out of her breeding program due to his temperament-too shy and timid to be bred.

And puppies don't "fail" the test, it just helps to define how they may respond in certain situations, and what environment would be best for them, and vice versa.

I do agree that, barring further information, I would avoid that litter.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
616 Posts
If you end up with a puppy from this breeding, I recommend you being very diligent about going to the vet-Opthamologist once a year. Its a little pricey probably 50 dollars per visit generally. But worth it, with the odds of PU in this litter. If you catch PU early there are pretty good odds for a successful treatment, which only an opthamologist can catch it before it develops into glaucoma. Although speaking from a breeding perspective I don't know why this litter was bred, and I certainly wouldn't breed any of the offspring. With that why is she breeding these two dogs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,937 Posts
When my adorable, biddable, trainable, Laney came to me, she was labelled "dominant" by the evaluator. She was everthing but dominant. She was in fact, a very confident secure pup. If I had done as her breeder suggested from the evaluator's results, I am confident I would've turned her into a fear biter... that made me question those tests..
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top