[momo_]

A month ago from today, I began to transition Sunny (5 months at the time) to Taste of the Wild. Prior to that, he was on Royal Canin for about 2 months, and there was an attempted Pro Plan SSS transition which failed during the diarrhea episodes.

I wouldn't say there's been notable improvements on TOTW, but his condition is neither better or worse. He's finally at a weight I'm happy with, and his poops are solid 70-80% of the time. The only thing I'm concerned about is the volume of poops - he poops out a large amount, which means his body isn't absorbing all the nutrients from the food? His coat is thinner, shorter and more coarse than his littermates.

We are rotating between Sierra Mountain lamb (ALS) and Pacific Stream (adult). I'm hoping the results of PS will start to show in his coat in the next few weeks/months.

Yesterday, Sunny's dad had a birthday party. Amongst the 25 goldens that were there, most were being fed Royal Canin. They all looked beautiful, while Sunny's coat was pitifully the most dull-looking. Would be safe to assume it's because of him having diarrhea on and off for 1.5 months, eating mainly chicken and rice that caused this and not the food?

Regardless of whether or not he's *thriving* on TOTW, I won't be changing for a long time, but I do want him to be on the best food (that isn't raw) I can possibly give him during this crucial stage of development. Note: Fromm, Acana, Orijen are not available in Australia.

I guess I'll be using this thread to track his progress on TOTW.
How long does it take for a food to start showing results? How can you tell when a dog is actually thriving, not just doing okay?

 

[momo_]

He was at his worst late April, when he had a bacteria.
In the 1st photo, bottom right, he had rolled around in another dog's puke. :yuck:

At the vet 10 days ago, his weight was around 23kgs, so I'm assuming he's around 24kgs/53lbs now.
I think he's at an ideal weight on the leaner side, which I guess is better than being too tubby.

 

[3Pebs3]

Going off of the June 7th picture, I don't think his fur looks that different from Rundle's right now in terms of thickness and length. Obviously I haven't seen his litter mates, but to me he looks like a young and healthy golden.

 

[mylissyk]

This is just my personal experience with TOTW, but my dogs coats were dull and thin. A month after I put them on a different food their coats looked better, now 6 months later they have heathly coats that look better than they did for years on TOTW.

Unfortunately I am now feeding them Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach, which you said did not work for Sunny, so I'm no help on another food suggestion.

I used to feed my dogs Natural Balance and they had the smallest most infrequent stools I've ever seen. I assumed it was because they were absorbing all the nutrients from the food and had little waste. I only stopped feeding it because of the Diamond manufactured food recall a couple of years ago. TOTW is also produced in a Diamond plant now though, and I quit using it too. I didn't do that on purpose, it is a coincidence.

Natural Balance has limited ingredient diets if you decide to look for other options.

 

[momo_]

This is just my personal experience with TOTW, but my dogs coats were dull and thin. A month after I put them on a different food their coats looked better, now 6 months later they have heathly coats that look better than they did for years on TOTW.

Unfortunately I am now feeding them Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach, which you said did not work for Sunny, so I'm no help on another food suggestion.

Very interesting, most people who feed TOTW rave about great coats on their dogs the main reason why I picked it! Pro Plan SSS didn't work for Sunny because I tried the transition WHILE the diarrhoea issue was ongoing. I followed the vet's instructions - 24hr fast, chicken and rice for 4 days, then slowly add PP. If I hadn't gone grain-free, I'd probably try PP later on in the future, but I noticed TOTW has decreased his itching dramatically, and his ears don't get gunky everyday anymore.

I did a quick Google search on Natural Balance, I'm not sure it's available in Australia? Unfortunately we don't have many of the good brands here. The best grain-free we have is TOTW, Wellness, Artemis and Earthborn Holistic. Any opinions on these brands?

 

[mylissyk]

It is interesting how some foods work for some dogs and not others. Wellness is a good brand, the others I don't know anything about.

 

[momo_]

Pebs, I brought along my camera to the dog park today to take some snaps for fun. It's not something I really notice with my own eyes, but the photos really show how much better it looks since 1.5 months ago. I'm really pleased with how he's progressed. Unfortunately, today he's started another round of frequent diarrhea. With mucus too. I swear every thread I start leads to diarrhea somehow! :doh:
We'll be going to the vet in a few days. I just hate that as soon as he got better, it's gonna go downhill again.

 

[3Pebs3]

Pebs, I brought along my camera to the dog park today to take some snaps for fun. It's not something I really notice with my own eyes, but the photos really show how much better it looks since 1.5 months ago. I'm really pleased with how he's progressed. Unfortunately, today he's started another round of frequent diarrhea. With mucus too. I swear every thread I start leads to diarrhea somehow! :doh:
We'll be going to the vet in a few days. I just hate that as soon as he got better, it's gonna go downhill again.

He really does look so much better and healthier from 1.5 months ago. I really do not see a dull coat on him either. He looks super handsome as far as I can tell :
Really sorry to hear that he has diarrhea + mucus again though. Rundle has been pretty solid as of late :crossfing She had one bout of diarrhoea that we switched her back to the GI food. But, it was resolved after about 4 days. Than she had another bout that last maybe 1 to 2 days, where we didn't switch her over and we just waited for it to resolve. Since then she has one offs where maybe it is a little soft, or solid with a little run at the end... but, in all these times it has never been as frequent, sloppy, or mucousy as that one week she had it. We are really hoping not to see anything like that again. But, it is hard because sometimes she eats random things like the current 2inch by 1 inch piece of himalayan that is sitting in her digestive system somewhere right now. :doh: It's really hard to stop these little vacuums sometimes no matter how matter how closely you monitor them. Really hoping that doesn't get stuck in her digestive track somewhere... We love our dogs, but they sure know just what to do to keep us on our toes.

 

[momo_]

I'm always very flattered when people compliment him, because he's a bit of an odd-looking fella sometimes!
Glad to hear Rundle's poops have been good! What do you mean when you say "GI food"? I'd like to get Sunny on some alternative food to chicken and rice, something that's more nutritious for him, especially since he gets these diarrhoea episodes so frequently.
Rundle's stools lately actually sounds really similar to Sunny's! He had diarrhoea for 3 days because I did not do a slow transition to coconut oil. After that, his poops were fairly solid - well-formed, but mushes in the hand when picked up. Not mushy enough to leave marks on the ground though. He had diarrhoea again for about 1-2 days, like Rundle, so I put him on chicken and rice only and his poops were absolutely super solid and small. 30 hours after eating pupcakes at his dad's birthday, he got mushy poop, but it cleared up the next morning. Then all of a sudden, this happens. Full-blown diarrhoea with mucus. I have no idea what it could be. He's not getting new treats.
It's 11pm now, no diarrhoea since 2:20pm today, fingers crossed none throughout the night and an improvement tomorrow morning!
I really don't mind if it's from eating junk outside once in a while, they're puppies, we aren't always there to watch them like a hawk, but I'm paranoid it's another bacteria or virus. The diarrhoea episodes during that period was constant though, all through the night, attacking 5-6 times during the night.

Fingers crossed Rundle passes that piece of chew! Gee, sounds quite big! Sunny recently passed a chunk of rubber, about 1inch x 1inch. It came out in a solid poop, no diarrhoea surprisingly. He's swallowed 2-3inches of a bully stick before too.
Do himalayan chews get soft and dissolve or anything? It's not a foreign object, so probably wouldn't cause an obstruction. Good luck Rundle!

 

[3Pebs3]

What do you mean when you say "GI food"? I'd like to get Sunny on some alternative food to chicken and rice, something that's more nutritious for him, especially since he gets these diarrhoea episodes so frequently.

It's 11pm now, no diarrhoea since 2:20pm today, fingers crossed none throughout the night and an improvement tomorrow morning!


Fingers crossed Rundle passes that piece of chew! Gee, sounds quite big! Sunny recently passed a chunk of rubber, about 1inch x 1inch. It came out in a solid poop, no diarrhoea surprisingly. He's swallowed 2-3inches of a bully stick before too.
Do himalayan chews get soft and dissolve or anything? It's not a foreign object, so probably wouldn't cause an obstruction. Good luck Rundle!

Royal Canin has a whole GI line. Here is the one for puppies and the rest of the GI foods are posted on the left side of the screen: Gastro Intestinal Puppy / Veterinary Therapeutic Formulas / Canine Nutrition / Veterinary Products / Home - RoyalCanin

This food is not sold in pet stores, only vet clinics. Though I did notice it is available on amazon. It really helped Rundle a lot when she had full blown diarrhea as you will see on that link all of the key features and benefits of this food. We had Rundle on the GI moderate calorie version (and just gave her more kibble) because that is all they had available at the vet clinic at the time, and she loved it! But, it is pretty pricey, so that is why we don't keep her on it all the time.

Hoping it is not another virus either. I do think the fact that it is not constant is a good sign. I don't usually stress about twigs/grass/leaves either. But, it's when she eats stuff people have left on the ground (mystery food items or worse), or I can't see what she is eating off the ground (always worry about mushrooms), or foreign objects (e.g. the monkey tail off of her chew proof stuffy) that gets me worried. Like you, I always fear the never ending diarrhea happening again.

Himalayan chews can dissolved, but they are quite solid and can take a long time to dissolve. She's been pooping normally since she swallowed it, so there are no obstructions or bowel irritation from it yet. Just gotta wait and see :uhoh:

 

[momo_]

Ooo thanks for that! I know RC have a huge range of lines. So GI RC can replace chicken and rice, just as easily digestible? I'll ask my vet about it, they'll probably be happy to hear since they promote RC, and only RC.
I don't think it'd be as expensive as all the chicken I buy Sunny. On bad weeks, chicken breasts costs me $15-20 PER WEEK. That's almost $1000 per year. As he matures and his system is less sensitive, I won't have to spend so much on chicken.
I've found some GI RC low-fat online, but can't find the puppy formula.

After no diarrhoea since 2:20pm, he had it again at 2:00am. I hosed it down the mess of mucus to see 3 small solid pellets. That's odd? Probably an improvement? Though mucus doesn't sound good still.

I heard that dogs can get an obstruction from eating grass and debris. Sunny passes those things but now I'm afraid there's a dam building up inside him!!!

When did Rundle swallow the chew piece? If she's still pooping normally that's great! I'm sure she will be fine

Edit: only GI low fat is available in Australia, no puppy formula! A 12kg bag is $130 which is only $30 more than most foods. Not too bad. I think I will invest in one!

 

[3Pebs3]

Ooo thanks for that! I know RC have a huge range of lines. So GI RC can replace chicken and rice, just as easily digestible? I'll ask my vet about it, they'll probably be happy to hear since they promote RC, and only RC.
I don't think it'd be as expensive as all the chicken I buy Sunny. On bad weeks, chicken breasts costs me $15-20 PER WEEK. That's almost $1000 per year. As he matures and his system is less sensitive, I won't have to spend so much on chicken.
I've found some GI RC low-fat online, but can't find the puppy formula.

After no diarrhoea since 2:20pm, he had it again at 2:00am. I hosed it down the mess of mucus to see 3 small solid pellets. That's odd? Probably an improvement? Though mucus doesn't sound good still.

I heard that dogs can get an obstruction from eating grass and debris. Sunny passes those things but now I'm afraid there's a dam building up inside him!!!

When did Rundle swallow the chew piece? If she's still pooping normally that's great! I'm sure she will be fine

Edit: only GI low fat is available in Australia, no puppy formula! A 12kg bag is $130 which is only $30 more than most foods. Not too bad. I think I will invest in one!

Yes it is meant for easy digestion. For Rundle, it worked better than giving her chicken and rice.

Rundle swallowed it about 2 to 3 days ago? Still no signs of any trouble, though still no signs of the chew either...

There digestion will always be a mystery to me... mucous and 3 kibbles? I have no idea. But, hope you see continued improvement in Sunny!

 

[momo_]

He pooped 3 times today, all solid! They're quite soft but I'm not complaining, as long as they're well-formed.
I'm going to continue feeding only chicken, rice and kibble for the next 4 days without treats to make sure it's not TOTW that's the issue. I've been reading up about bad April/May bags causing diarrhea.

Today Sunny chewed off some flexible rubber/plastic from his teething toy and swallowed a small bit of it before I could stop him. This is the most destructive he's ever been, he's usually a very gentle chewer but it's like he's teething again.

So now we're both waiting for our dogs to pass things... :doh:

 

[3Pebs3]

Yay for solid poops!
I'm sure if he swallowed small bits of rubber there isn't much to worry about. It's the large items that keep me up at night. Same old, same old over here. Two solid poops this morning. Literally! One big poop. Than two minutes later another big one! But, neither showed signs of her chew. I think it's just going to float around in there until it dissolves to a small enough size that she can pass it.

 

[golfgal]

FYI - You might want to try the Proplan Lamb & Rice rather than SSS. Not all dogs do well with SSS for some reason. Definitely will address the coat issue and I have to say in three years of puppies, there have been no diarrhea issues. Murphy did much better of Lamb than SSS. A breeder/nutritionist has dogs (not goldens) with skin/coat issues and she uses Lamb & Rice and or if that does not work, raw. I've been trying Proplan grain free formula (chicken/egg) most recently thinking it might solve the 'yeast/paw licking' problem but I guess it's not the grains. I'd caution on the Canin, I know the Golden Retriever one here has powdered cellulose in it which is one major reason I wouldn't buy Canin. I just got an email about their new skin formula. Horrible ingredients so I'm not sure how it helps.

 

[3Pebs3]

In response to golfgal's caution about royal canin, I will reiterate that we do not keep Rundle on Royal Canin GI all the time. We only use it to help her stomach after we have had 2 days of diarrhoea that does not seem to want to go away. Luckily we have not had to put her on it for quite some time now. Otherwise she is on acana wild prairie, and doing really well on it.

Just an update. After eating a little bit of gravel yesterday (while trying to lick something else I'm sure), Rundle barfed at 3 o'clock this morning. Up came the much smaller than it was originally chew. So, it seemed to have dissolved quite a bit in her stomach since she swallowed it almost a week ago. But, still hadn't passed. Amazing eh? Anyhow, luckily it didn't cause her any trouble and we can now go forward without having to worry... but, I'm sure she'll give us another reason before long. :doh: Silly girl.

 

[momo_]

I can't believe dogs can throw up things that have been there for a week! Amazing.
I will get back to responding to you golfgal, but I need to post this or I can't get back to sleep.

Since three weeks ago, I've been getting sunny to sleep downstairs in his crate. Nothings changed except I don't sleep in the room with him, I sleep upstairs. It's been so great because now I don't wake up heart pounding from hearing him rattle the crate whether intentionally or accidentally. On days he has runny poos, I sleep downstairs and leave the door open for him in case he needs to go.

Yesterday, he did 4 poops, more than usual lately. The second one of the day was quite mushy, but it improved throughout the day and since he went 4 times I was certain he wouldn't need to go again. Wrong.

At 6 i got up to let him out. As soon as I opened my half closed bedroom door, I could smell it from upstairs... Sure enough, he'd poop in the crate and I am so mad at myself.

The poop was mushy cow party, but the surface seemed to have hardened a little, meaning it had probably been there for a few hours. Poor thing had to sleep with his mess. I feel so terrible I want to cry.

Now he probably won't want to sleep in his crate again and if I sleep downstairs I won't be able to tell whether it's a get me out of here or a I need to crap rattle. If it was a one off thing and I go back to sleeping upstairs, he may think pooping in the crate is acceptable. I don't know.. a few times I let him out in the morning and he goes outside to poop so sometimes he can hold it. I don't know what to do. Ahh I hate crate training.

 

[momo_]

He just puked out the chicken and rice I gave him, quite a lot plus I see some kibble from yesterday. How polite of him to ask to vomit outside. Poor baby... Thankfully the vet is open until noon today.

 

[momo_]

I've heard stories about the bad bags of TOTW, but I'm not convinced his kibble is the cause of it.. we went through the bag with solid poops and mushy poop, with the odd diarrhea now and then. How can a food be okay one day then not okay the next? His poops were solid for a while.. and the vomit. He hasn't gotten into anything outside as of late.

 

[3Pebs3]

Hey momo, try not to worry about how he will do until his crate before you see what happens. He might do fine and all that worry would have been for not. I understand you feel bad for having left him in his crate with his mess, but I also understand that it happens... you are not alone in this.. and I'm certain he won't be scarred forever.
In terms of the poop and vomit I am sorry to hear that Sunny doesn't sound well. Thought it may be still that he did munch on something when you werent looking, and he just has a bit of an upset tummy (I refer back to Rundles 3am vomit). She is totally fine. Pooping normally. Anyways let us know what the vet says. I am hoping Sunny is alright!
Are you still giving him pumpkin with this meals? I really do find giving Rundle half a tablespoon of pumpkin with her meals helps keep her firmer while she eats grass, twigs, leaves and everything else on the ground outside.
Best wishes!