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Relative newbie here...earned only a UKC CH on my prior multipurpose-bred boy, but my current pup has more conformation breeding behind him and I'm trying to figure out if and when to show him. He's also a multipurpose breeding, and just turned 12 months. I keep him lean as we do fair amount of training for obedience and he has jumping in his future. ;) I don't see him being a huge male - he's about 63 pounds, although he appears in standard for height (still haven't found a wicket, and I'm comparing him to other males in class). I think he's still very much maturing physically. My breeder is out of state and I'm thinking it's best to keep up with the obedience training and see how he grows. How do you figure out when (or if) to bring out your boys? How old is too old? TIA!
 

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Kate
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Just use a tape measure or ask around your training club for a wicket.

But as long as he's 23" - no worries.

And then there are products (bodifier, etc) which + dryer can make your dog look "bigger" than he is.

Now would be a good time to show him since you can take advantage of the puppy classes.

After he ages out of the 12-18 month class, you have to re-evaluate which class to put him in. And most people just go into Open then.

I started my pup at 6 months. But he was a good sized pup. A lot of people keep dogs out if they need to grow. <= Should say, I could not have entered Bertie in shows that early.
 

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Somewhat depends on where you are located. Here in the Midwest the moderate dogs fair pretty well. Only show in large shows which will have judges that understand what a Golden is supposed to look like, as versus the small shows where they just put up the flashiest dog.
Ask a good handler (preferably one not looking for Golden clients at the moment) to evaluate him.
My Tito is the epitome of moderate. Showed him at 23-1/2 inches, 64 pounds, very little furnishings. He finished quickly and easily with 3 big majors.
 

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As an aside, there's no reason you can't continue with the obedience at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As an aside, there's no reason you can't continue with the obedience at the same time.
Thanks so much! Yes, I actually would hesitate to send him out with a handler for that very reason - obedience is my first love and we train every day! This kiddo has a ton of zip that is fun to train but also needs to be in control, lol! I am not opposed to sending him with a handler, just would only want to do it if he was at the point he could be competitive, as that would cut into our obedience training. ;) Any handler recommendations?

I am in the midwest - that is so good to hear that a moderate boy can get a look. I see so many males that are more in the 80 pound range - I don't see mine ever getting that large, although the breeder says he'll continue to fill out and build muscle for a while. I see him as a 65-70 dog, at the most (if that!). I'm actually guessing he'll be mid-standard height-wise - he's not short.

So is maturity something that you can get some idea by lines/pedigree? This is my Finn (k9data link below). It appears to me that his mom pointed young (is size less of an issue for girls?), but his grandpa and uncle finished their GCh when they were 2-4 years old - wondering if that was to wait for maturity?

I clearly have so much to learn!
 

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I bred to Skye - frozen obviously- he did not add any bone to my bitch, in fact, I would call the litter smaller than she typically produced. And they matured @ about norm.. I would also suggest you do an ICT DNA test- I got ICT from that breeding.
But super performance dogs! All of them should have been qualifiers for Outstanding producer except I made the error of putting one in a 'I do EVERYTHING' home who has way out of era, so she has done almost nothing- sad for my bitch. Skye is of course already an OS.
 

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Kate
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I am in the midwest - that is so good to hear that a moderate boy can get a look. I see so many males that are more in the 80 pound range - I don't see mine ever getting that large, although the breeder says he'll continue to fill out and build muscle for a while. I see him as a 65-70 dog, at the most (if that!). I'm actually guessing he'll be mid-standard height-wise - he's not short.
A dog shouldn't hit 80 prior to middle age....

My pup is 65 pounds and very "puffy" (a lot of bone + fluff), and both breeders behind him nudged me about getting a couple pounds off him and keeping him lean. His breeder pointed out that the little guy didn't have a waist.... (I'm not worried about it because he's growing into himself all the time) :)

So weight is not so much an issue as proportion/balance.

Regarding finding a handler - check with Parker's mom (Donna) - I can't remember her member name here. One of the handlers she used (Nikki) - I've seen successfully handling more moderate type dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I bred to Skye - frozen obviously- he did not add any bone to my bitch, in fact, I would call the litter smaller than she typically produced. And they matured @ about norm.. I would also suggest you do an ICT DNA test- I got ICT from that breeding.
But super performance dogs! All of them should have been qualifiers for Outstanding producer except I made the error of putting one in a 'I do EVERYTHING' home who has way out of era, so she has done almost nothing- sad for my bitch. Skye is of course already an OS.
Thanks - so interesting. This is actually my second Skye son - lost the 1st at almost 14.5-years-old and I jumped at the chance to have another. Skye seems to have had some pups with longevity. Frozen, this time, too, obviously. ;) 8 pups, though, so I was surprised to have so many to pick from! No ICT in my other Skye son, in fact, never had so much as a hot spot. This kid seems to have a lovely coat so far (think mom was clear), but I do want to do testing for NCL, etc., just to know what I have and will probably do a full panel at that time.

This kid is not super-heavily boned, either, but has more bone than my last Skye son (more of a working pedigree), so we'll see. There are some BIG dogs on Finn's mom's side, so I am thinking they may have wanted a moderate sire. The breeder also loves her prior Skye litter. ;) I was also impressed that mom's side has a CH OTCH in the lines, too. This pup does have tons of drive and zip, though, and is very athletic and smart. Thank you for the info! So interesting to hear from someone who has bred to Skye!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A dog shouldn't hit 80 prior to middle age....

My pup is 65 pounds and very "puffy" (a lot of bone + fluff), and both breeders behind him nudged me about getting a couple pounds off him and keeping him lean. His breeder pointed out that the little guy didn't have a waist.... (I'm not worried about it because he's growing into himself all the time) :)

So weight is not so much an issue as proportion/balance.

Regarding finding a handler - check with Parker's mom (Donna) - I can't remember her member name here. One of the handlers she used (Nikki) - I've seen successfully handling more moderate type dogs.
Haha about the weight - I take privates with an OTCH-level trainer who will comment if a dog gets so much as a pound or two overweight...which helps me keep 'em lean. Then I take my dog to conformation class where I get told to "put a few pounds on that dog!" ;) Pretty used to that now! Haha!

Very helpful about the handlers - thank you! I'd been wondering about the one you mentioned!

Thanks, again - very helpful!
 

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Kate
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home who has way out of era
I'm literally still trying to figure out what this was supposed to be. LOL. :grin2:

@Rion05 - only caution re weight is some of the performance people out there keep the dogs too skinny for conformation. And it doesn't look that great, especially if the coats are poor. Just like carrying a little extra weight is that great either.

The dogs don't have to be that heavy. Bertie is middle aged now (last year chasing that darn last major before I retire him) and put on a few pounds, but he's still 72-75 pounds (I think I've got him back down on the lower end of that, but haven't had him in for weight check recently. In his prime (3-4 years old), he was 67-69 pounds. They don't have to be very heavy.

I think when somebody says put weight on a dog - they want to see them filled out more. Or again, groom with bodifier and dryer to add size.

Bertie was a slight dog when I started showing him in Open. I complained to a friend who actually used to be a member here (Shelly) about making my dog look like a bigger dog so he could compete against 2-3 year olds and she advised using a couple different products, including bodifier, to poof him up a little.

I don't have to do that at all with Jovi who has more poof than he should (LOL - but he did get reserve a couple weeks ago over adult dogs which made me happy). But anyway, with Bertie he did just fine with a little extra grooming.
 

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We did ringside pickup, I never sent him out, and I often showed him in obedience (UDX) and breed at the same shows. It works for some people, not for others.
I've not really shown for several years, so I think others would be better suited to suggest handlers.
Different dogs mature at different rates, with only one exception I can think of Tito puppies really aren't ready to show until they're between 2-3 years old. Tito was the same.


Thanks so much! Yes, I actually would hesitate to send him out with a handler for that very reason - obedience is my first love and we train every day! This kiddo has a ton of zip that is fun to train but also needs to be in control, lol! I am not opposed to sending him with a handler, just would only want to do it if he was at the point he could be competitive, as that would cut into our obedience training. ;) Any handler recommendations?

I am in the midwest - that is so good to hear that a moderate boy can get a look. I see so many males that are more in the 80 pound range - I don't see mine ever getting that large, although the breeder says he'll continue to fill out and build muscle for a while. I see him as a 65-70 dog, at the most (if that!). I'm actually guessing he'll be mid-standard height-wise - he's not short.

So is maturity something that you can get some idea by lines/pedigree? This is my Finn (k9data link below). It appears to me that his mom pointed young (is size less of an issue for girls?), but his grandpa and uncle finished their GCh when they were 2-4 years old - wondering if that was to wait for maturity?

I clearly have so much to learn!
 

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A Tito show photo. You can see he's VERY moderate, doesn't carry much coat, and had very little in the way of furnishings at the time.
 

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My moderate dog HipHop 67 lbs excels with specific breeder judges. He was a phenom baby, finishing AM CH from 6-9 puppy. He won a specialty and some group 2s on his way to GCH. He is too small to campaign, but many appreciate him.
 

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the party's crashing us
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Hmmmm OK here's my rambling thoughts....

1) I suggest showing in 6-9 class even if you have no other aspirations to show. Pure field or obedience prospects, it's a great experience, they learn that the ring means pets, food and getting lots of attention. They become old hats at dog shows. Now that your dog is 12+ months, you're behind the curve on that
2) Unless the dog is really put together for a youngster or has other really outstanding attributes, being competitive enough to earn points usually happens when the dog is two, three, four years old. Now he's still a good age to show in 12-18 class, which is a class I love, and have had dogs win majors out of that class, but once you hit 18 months they are in no man's land. If you're lucky you can bump up to Open and still be OK. Most dogs need to be put up for another six months or a year before they're ready to come out in open as a two year old.
3) Yes, definitely get a handler or two to evaluate him, and the longer/more mature he is to do that the better
4) Tough love time. Goldens are SUPER COMPETITIVE and THE hardest breed to finish. We have the highest point scale, we are dominated by pro handlers, and we have to groom. Other breeds that check the other two boxes have no coat! (dobes, labs, etc). People with goldens who just want to "show for fun" don't last long, because that much time, effort and money for no results...isn't fun. Dog shows are gross. After the nerves and novelty wear off, it's a freakin bummer not to win. You have to be absolutely tenacious to finish a golden.
Your boy is very pretty. I LOVE Skye. Look at my signature, I have a Morninglo dog!
BUT -- will your guy be ring material? Just looking at his stacked pic on k9data I don't know. Certainly a pretty coat and color but he's really straight in front. Unless they're fabulous everywhere else, that won't get you very far in the ring. I'm saying this now, because few people will give it to you straight up. Fronts are a big problem in our breed, we need to start recognizing them and not putting them in front of breed judges. Caveat -- maybe it's just a bad job stacking or a bad picture. But I also know that Morninglo front....all too well....
5) ABSOLUTELY take him to a CCA when he's old enough!!! You will learn a TON!!! And quite easily earn a title.

Best of luck,
 

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Another thing...showing a moderate dog isn't just about finding judges who don't care about fluff and bone and flashy side gate. It means you have to find judges who don't care about fluff and bone and flashy side gate because you're bringing them a dog who is so correct and well structured that he gets noticed above and beyond the flashy fluffballs.
"Moderate" but not well structured or an inadequate mover, is just mediocre.
 

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Kate
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Anney - you missed one. We have the highest point schedule and it doesn't reflect who is actually showing year to year! The majors are tough to find... o_O MI/OH just lost the Booths and I'm still not sure what's going on with the entries this year as a result.

I was bemoaning the fact I forgot to enter a golden specialty (Toledo) last week - and then I looked at the entries and felt relieved. No majors.

You have a 5 day cluster this week in Western MI which sometimes gets majors the same time as Cinci. I'm so relieved I picked Cinci again this year, because the numbers are REALLY LOW in Kalamazoo.

And looking ahead through the rest of the year, I'm not seeing many opportunities for majors while staying close to home aside from big obvious ones like Monroe. The judges aren't that great either. :( I can't travel around the country and won't send Bert out, so it really stinks!
 

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Maegan
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Anney - you missed one. We have the highest point schedule and it doesn't reflect who is actually showing year to year! The majors are tough to find... o_O MI/OH just lost the Booths and I'm still not sure what's going on with the entries this year as a result.

I was bemoaning the fact I forgot to enter a golden specialty (Toledo) last week - and then I looked at the entries and felt relieved. No majors.

You have a 5 day cluster this week in Western MI which sometimes gets majors the same time as Cinci. I'm so relieved I picked Cinci again this year, because the numbers are REALLY LOW in Kalamazoo.

And looking ahead through the rest of the year, I'm not seeing many opportunities for majors while staying close to home aside from big obvious ones like Monroe. The judges aren't that great either. :( I can't travel around the country and won't send Bert out, so it really stinks!
We lost the Booths?!? When did this happen? EDIT: Went to their website and investigated... So they are retiring from professional handling, but will continue breeding and showing their own dogs...

I think the Columbus show had majors a few weeks ago. Wish I could go to the Cinci specialty, but puppy is still too young and Rocket needs a good long break from Triple Q's.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thanks K9Designs - my pup was pulled up very high in the front in that photo and it does make him look straight in the front - you are right! He had just done a flying leap off of the stacking area after tossed bait and we were just trying to get him to hold still (realized he’s also not ready for flying bait)! I don’t have people to help me stack and take photos very often and I just was trying to get one of him stacked. That’s not to say he’s perfect, but maybe I need to lose that photo because he usually does look better than that when not pulled up. Still, yes, goldens are competitive (I did know that) and we may just dabble in UKC and try a CCA. Thank you for your honesty!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
A Tito show photo. You can see he's VERY moderate, doesn't carry much coat, and had very little in the way of furnishings at the time.
He's so handsome and talented! Love him!
 
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