[Riley's Human]

Hi all, I introduced Riley a couple of weeks ago and mentioned that the breeder we purchased him from is washing her hands of any responsibility for his heart murmur. The purpose of this post is twofold. First of all I am trying to make contact with the other person who's new puppy also developed a heart murmur after being taken home. The breeder is Sandra Lynn of Waterdown and her dogs are registered under the kennel name "Felicity's". I am hoping that person will see this post and contact me. I'm interested in the response she received when she informed the breeder of the pup's affliction.

Secondly, I am seeking thoughtful suggestions as to how to proceed in dealing with this woman. When I purchased Riley I opted not to pay an extra $200 far a health guarantee because she very proudly documented the health clearances of her bloodlines, and if any normal health issues occurred throughout his life I was fully prepared to deal with them. However when at 12 weeks my vet discovered he had a gr 2 heart murmur which had progressed to gr 3 by 16 weeks I felt that the breeder should take some reponsibility. We are too attached to Riley to give him up and will deal with whatever circumstances present themselves throughout his life, but my requests to have her at least cover the cost of the diagnostic ultrasound have been met with animosity and accusations that I am trying to extort money from her. I've given up trying to reaon with her and am now contemplating legal action. Some honest, objective input would be very much appreciated.

 

[SheetsSM]

Sorry that your pup is unwell--please make sure you're working with a cardiologist in getting the right diagnosis, prognosis & treatment plan.

As for your breeder, unless she's breaking her contract I doubt there is any legal recourse.

 

[Megora]

You know... if a breeder charges MORE for any kind of health guarantee, whatever that may be... she's probably not somebody you want to buy a puppy from. And I very much doubt that she would have done more than give you your $200 back as far as that guarantee.

 

[vcm5]

I agree - in what way is she breaking her contract? If she is not breaking her contracted and you opted out of whatever guarantee, its hard to understand how you could have legal ground.

 

[heureuse_jesuis]

Hi there,
I just started talking with sandy regarding a 5 month old puppy named burnsey who he admits has a slight heart murmur. I was trying to find her kennel on line to research her and I came across your post here. Was riley born on the 5th day of a month this year (or maybe it was a 4th).
I am a little worried as I am trying to get more photos of Burnsey and she is unable to provide. I get that doggies have heart murmurs but a little alarmed of your experience.
I also have this fear that she took riley back from you and maybe trying to resell him.
Does your vet say that life for riley is going to be tough? I love goldies and can provide for them but if they are set up for failure that is unacceptable.

I would really appreciate it if you could send me a note back about your entire experience.

 

[Megora]

Are you the other person whose puppy has a heart murmur - that the OP mentioned?

 

[Shalva]

Hi all, I introduced Riley a couple of weeks ago and mentioned that the breeder we purchased him from is washing her hands of any responsibility for his heart murmur. The purpose of this post is twofold. First of all I am trying to make contact with the other person who's new puppy also developed a heart murmur after being taken home. The breeder is Sandra Lynn of Waterdown and her dogs are registered under the kennel name "Felicity's". I am hoping that person will see this post and contact me. I'm interested in the response she received when she informed the breeder of the pup's affliction.

Secondly, I am seeking thoughtful suggestions as to how to proceed in dealing with this woman. When I purchased Riley I opted not to pay an extra $200 far a health guarantee because she very proudly documented the health clearances of her bloodlines, and if any normal health issues occurred throughout his life I was fully prepared to deal with them. However when at 12 weeks my vet discovered he had a gr 2 heart murmur which had progressed to gr 3 by 16 weeks I felt that the breeder should take some reponsibility. We are too attached to Riley to give him up and will deal with whatever circumstances present themselves throughout his life, but my requests to have her at least cover the cost of the diagnostic ultrasound have been met with animosity and accusations that I am trying to extort money from her. I've given up trying to reaon with her and am now contemplating legal action. Some honest, objective input would be very much appreciated.

I agree with the others. You chose to get your pup from a irresponsible breeder, and then chose not to buy the health guarantee, so you don't have a health guarantee. What part of the contract (assuming you have a contract) did the breeder break? What part of the health guarantee that you didn't buy did she break?

Honestly what I see is buyers remorse. You made a poor decision about where to buy your puppy and the health guarantee and now you want to go back after those decisions to the breeder.

I am sorry that your Riley is sick... I am sure he is a very nice puppy and it is terrible to see them sick... had you gotten him from a reputable breeder we would have been right there assisting you and supporting you... but what's done is done. I honestly don't think you have grounds for legal action and don't think that you will get anywhere with the breeder. Hopefully you can have the echo done and find out it is a harmless murmur... many of them are, even noisy murmurs can be nothing but that, noisy.

 

[MGMF]

I don't know why anyone would need to pay any extra for a health guarantee. Shouldn't the puppies they place be healthy for the original price. I think that is a scam if you ask me and someone I would have walked away. Don't know what more the 200. would have helped you anyway how the breeder is responding. I really don't know what you can do with the breeder and it is sad to know they washed hands with you. As a breeder you would think they would at least want to know your puppies outcome for future of their breeding program. Did they have the puppies to a vet before they came home to you. I know I give my families get the vet certificate when they are seen around 6 or 7 weeks. If so maybe you can call the vet and see if they will possibly give you any history. In the mean time I would get the puppy to a cardiologist.

 

[mylissyk]

The only legal action you might have would be if your state has puppy lemon laws. If you can prove this person is selling puppies she knows have heart problems you may have a case through state laws.

 

[Sally's Mom]

Actually SAS is hereditary, not necessarily congenital. I have seen numerous cases where the murmur didn't develop until further down the line. That is why you cannot get a cardiac clearance until 12 months. All clear parents, etc does not insure all clear hearts on pups. In Maine, there are lemon laws. Get an echo and figure it it.

 

[heartgoldens]

Until further diagnostics are done (echo), you don't quite know what you're dealing with yet. We got a golden a long time ago that was diagnosed with a rather loud murmur (5/6) at her first vet visit after we got her. We went to the cardiologist, had the echo done and turns out it was an innocent murmur. She has always had the murmur to this day, but no physiological cause for it and remains healthy at 12 years of age (knock on wood). I notified our breeder just to let her know and she was kind enough to refund some of the purchase price of the puppy to help cover the cost of vet bills, although she was not obligated to at all and certainly not something I expected.

Although your breeder should be more involved, sounds like there were many red flags going into this. The additional charge for a health guarantee would be one of them.

Please keep us updated on what the echo says.

 

[Mayve]

Not to be harsh, but if you opted out of the health guarantee...why would you then expect her to do anything for you.

Having said this I have never heard of someone having to pay extra for a health guarantee and I would have walked. .we live and learn.

As others have said, get the echo and see what you are trully dealing with!!!! I am hoping it is just and innocent murmur...good luck

 

[darealsunny]

It does not seem like there are lemon laws in Canada, but here's the post asking about it two years ago.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retrievers-main-discussion/75442-puppy-lemon-laws-canada.html

 

[Wendi]

I do think you have a right to expect the animal you purchased to be in good health, even without buying a health guarantee. Paying extra for the health guarantee, to me, is like purchasing extended warranty, not a warranty period.

You don't buy a guarantee when you purchase a lot of things, but there still is an expectation that the item will be in good working order when purchased new. Unfortunately, with most things all you can do is return the item.

 

[Ljilly28]

I had a puppy come from a breeder, and my vet found a 4/5 heart murmur. I returned the puppy within the first 48 hours, bc his prognosis was very grim. The breeder then had the puppy examined by a cardiologist who agreed. I will never forget that waterfall sound in the heart, and the sadness of a beautiful puppy who would not live to be two. My heart goes out to anyone dealing with a serious murmur.

 

[jazz]

Thanks for the heads up on the breeder . I'm close to Waterdown in Cambridge

 

[tippykayak]

I agree with others that you probably don't have any legal recourse here. I don't know the breeder or the details beyond what you posted here, but I don't know of any law that would enable you to seek financial restitution from the breeder in the situation you described. A puppy lemon law probably wouldn't help you at this point.

I'm very sorry that your pup has a murmur. Since pursuing the breeder for money probably won't go anywhere, it might be time simply to figure out what you can do to manage the condition moving forward from here. Why not start a thread about the murmur? There are some knowledgable folks here and those of us without much heart murmur experience are still very supportive and friendly.

I'll keep an eye out for Riley threads.

 

[tippykayak]

BTW - you can add Riley to k9data and put his full heart murmur diagnosis up there so the information is available publicly. Just be careful to only put totally accurate, verifiable information about it.

 

[Claudia M]

I am total agreement with the others who posted here. Just the so called health guarantee extra charge would have made me walk away immediately. Since you decided to still deal with this creeder and did not purchase the health thingy I do not see how you can take that breeder to court.
The only thing you can do is use your word of mouth power by telling your story on these forums, facebbok etc and hopefully this breeder will either change the way they do business or stop breeding altogether.

 

[heureuse_jesuis]

Response to Megora

Hi there,

No I have not purchased a pup from her. I was hoping Riley's human would give me a birthdate or riley so I can just know if they are from the same litter.
I have asked for some more detailed information on the pup's parents and I have not heard anything back. Nor has she been able to send me pictures of him in present time. So I am a bit nervous - no I have not put any money down.

My late Ryley was diagnosed with a heart murmur on and off over the years and some vets were horrified and some were not so worried. My thoughts were to be cognizant of it but what could I really do? I don't know how many open heart surgeries are done on doggies.

Some of the posters here have lovely looking goldies.. I will have to be in touch.