[millenniumfae]

I've been communicating with Wyoming Goldens of Saint Croix Falls, WI, and I've passed their questionnaire, and Paypal'd their deposit.

And today was the very day their dam was due to have a litter. This morning, I received an email saying that the expected mom wasn't pregnant, "just overweight. It happens sometimes SO - my next litter (assuming all goes as planned) will be born May 1st and go home June 18th. I am also breeding two other girls as soon as they come in heat, which should be anytime so stay tuned and I promise we will have a puppy for you this Summer. Thank you for your patience and this is the latest that I know for now."

And I immediately was like. What. Isn't this a huge red flag? What breeder would possibly mistake an overweight dog for a pregnant one? Don't pregnant dogs have very specific behaviors (like lactating, schedule changes) that'd clue a reputable breeder in?

For context:

• this breeder was one of the top three reccomended breeders by Anne Englehardt of Medi-Dogs Service Dog Trainers of Madison, WI
• this breeder does have a modest past client base and some good reviews
• the dogs all have proper health checks, plentiful show awards, and registration
• they are, so far, the only breeder to consistently reply to my inquiries despite me having many references (breeder, vet, therapist, work supervisor) and advice on how to message breeders
• their automatic email system simply accepted my application and immediately asked for the deposit to continue forwards
• the breeder says she is recovering from chemo since Feb this year (and therefore not willing to talk over the phone)
• their contract has a '2 year health guarantee' if I purchase their MLM food and NuVet products, but the breeder did say that she can remove that from my contract if I'm unwilling to buy from them

What do you think? Am I being overly suspicious? Should I take some extra steps?

 

[Prism Goldens]

Well- firstly, one would HOPE a breeding would be witnessed- and preferably, would have been timed by progesterone...and then secondly, one would hope pregnancy would be confirmed 4 weeks after ovulation, by either US or palpation.. and yes, girls do have mammary development that is consistent w pregnancy..
I find it weird that the site auto does all the 'accepting' of a buyer. My own does auto send the initial inquiry response, which outlines my program, BUT if I do not hear from the inquirer after they get that, I certainly wouldn't take a deposit from then or put them on my list. There should be some back and forth, even if only by email.
" Anne Englehardt of Medi-Dogs Service Dog Trainers of Madison, WI" Never heard of her. Or that company- so I am going to say that this person/company is not well-known in our breed, and would then extrapolate that they may not be able to give good recs since they themselves are not known therefore are not likely to be in the know...

 

[Cnith]

I would ask for my deposit back. That, to me, is a heck no. Are her clearances good?

 

[millenniumfae]

I would ask for my deposit back. That, to me, is a heck no. Are her clearances good?

yup, all dogs have cleared health checks and many awards. so do their parents, according to the AKC.

 

[ArkansasGold]

yup, all dogs have cleared health checks and many awards. so do their parents, according to the AKC.

Did you check on OFA? AKC does not verify breeder claims.

 

[millenniumfae]

Did you check on OFA? AKC does not verify breeder claims.

Yup, every single dog has their OFA records linked - in the midst of their html-riddled website, their dogs all have a 'pedigree' button that takes me to a K9data page, and from there i can click on every health check that links directly to OFA. as far as i can tell, their dogs are legit.

 

[xRoan]

Her health issue statement tracks-- I did a little digging on FB... I understand not wanting to talk via phone after chemo, as it is EXTREMELY mentally and physically draining, however, I would also never put a deposit down without talking to a breeder first. This is someone who you will need to be on good terms with for the next 10-15 years, especially if you enjoy sending updates and would like the contract to stay in effect... if you don't "click" with the breeder then I wouldn't recommend purchasing a puppy from them. It seems like they just had a litter ~6 weeks ago.. I do feel like it's a little odd to have four litters in such a short span with serious health issues also happening at the same time. But, everyone is capable of handling things differently....

Too many red flags for me IMO. I agree that I would probably ask for a refund on the deposit.

 

[Cnith]

Yup, every single dog has their OFA records linked - in the midst of their html-riddled website, their dogs all have a 'pedigree' button that takes me to a K9data page, and from there i can click on every health check that links directly to OFA. as far as i can tell, their dogs are legit.

I saw a couple of girls and they were not up to date at all. Who are the girls she's breeding?

 

[Cnith]

Just because she did them in 2001 or so doesn't mean they're good... I think she's supposed to do them either yearly. But I'm no expert...

 

[xRoan]

Eyes should be done yearly.

 

[Cnith]

Eyes should be done yearly.

What about elbows and hips?

 

[pawsnpaca]

What about elbows and hips?

As long as they are done at 24 months or later, hips and elbows (and heart) are one and done (not repeated).

 

[DevWind]

Service dog trainers aren’t always your best resource. There’s an organization near me that can’t get well bred dogs because they insist on breeding doodles.

 

[xRoan]

I agree with DevWind... I digress. If you want a well-bred puppy there's a list of ethical breeders in the US somewhere on the forum, and Wisconsin has a number of great breeders who do all of the correct clearances and won't force you to feed a particular food to your puppy.

 

[LA152]

“the breeder says she is recovering from chemo since Feb this year (and therefore not willing to talk over the phone)” I would consider raising a litter of puppies a lot more draining than a phone call with a potential puppy buyer. And I’m a millennial who avoids phone calls in general haha

 

[Cnith]

“the breeder says she is recovering from chemo since Feb this year (and therefore not willing to talk over the phone)” I would consider raising a litter of puppies a lot more draining than a phone call with a potential puppy buyer. And I’m a millennial who avoids phone calls in general haha

I'm AuDHD so I hear you and they phone, lol. I agree with you tho, I would think raising 4 litters would be more taxing but I'm not a breeder either. Maybe it's easy?

 

[bitsybama]

It is inappropriate to expose the breeder’s personal health situation, full stop. Like seriously, read that again. And again and again.

You’re disappointed that you won’t get your puppy on time.
You didn’t establish a relationship in the first place.
And now an actual human’s identity and business and personal health information is being bandied about. With volunteer sleuths corroborating it on Facebook.
Just think about that for a second.

More effort has been put into this thread than ever was put into the due diligence.

 

[xRoan]

While I don't necessarily appreciate being called a sleuth, and the health/business/identity information is posted publicly on several Facebook pages, I understand your point and apologize for spreading said public information. By "digging" I meant that I clicked two links.

 

[Prism Goldens]

With volunteer sleuths corroborating it on Facebook.

More effort has been put into this thread than ever was put into the due diligence.

More effort is ALWAYS put into our threads than is put into the initial inquiry, for the benefit of the puppy person .
Sleuthing is a skill- though I do get your point.

 

[Canuckistan]

It is inappropriate to expose the breeder’s personal health situation, full stop. Like seriously, read that again. And again and again.

You’re disappointed that you won’t get your puppy on time.
You didn’t establish a relationship in the first place.
And now an actual human’s identity and business and personal health information is being bandied about. With volunteer sleuths corroborating it on Facebook.
Just think about that for a second.

More effort has been put into this thread than ever was put into the due diligence.

Idk your comment feels like a stretch, breeder posted that info herself to her PUBLIC fb page. A bit ridiculous to accept deposits for puppies without a confirmed pregnancy.