[Ljilly28]

Contientious breeding has really improved hip scores over the years. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals: Hip Dysplasia .

Having owned 15 plus goldens from varying backgrounds, I agree that while some of the breed specific health problems have cropped up, they have been managable with some work and wisdom, and for the most part our goldens have lived comfortably into their teens.

Anecdotal evidence is one of the worst ways to draw conclusions about an issue- small sample, bias etc. However, I think about my senior dog Finn right now, with his Hips Excellent. He is such an active go-dog who can still jump up on the waterfall, or into the car/on the bed, and he moves so beautifully. I appreciate the positive side effects of thoughtful breeding in seeing this dog who is still a pleasure to himself even though he is an old man. He has a mild case of idiopathic epilepsy, but this does not suck joy from his every day life. Finn's athletic prowess as a senior dog I chock up to the thoughtful breeding program of Sunfire goldens, and not random luck.

My dog Joplin, at age 14, could still run hard, swim for an hour, and hike 3 miles. His good hips, normal elbows, clear heart and eyes stood him in good stead in those later years. He didnt even have arthritis, and he made it until nearly 16. That was not an accident, but careful breeding by Tigathoe and Sundial goldens.

I do fear cancer like everyone else who loves goldens, and the one dog we lost at 9 did die of cancer. Also, I have cried many tears on many OFA forms and the like, bc I had hoped to breed a particular dog who did not pass, and then was spayed/neutered bc of my conscience. I do not agree with the idea backyard breeding is just fine and better, so I did not breed those dogs. I find the statistics on dysplasias from scientific studies to be more persuasive than anecdotal comments, so I believe that breeding my dog with elbow dysplasia has a greater chance of producing puppies who have it than if he was clear. Of those failing dogs though, all live fun, fulfilling lives. Copley has Grade I elbows, but has never once showed any lameness. Some of these breed health problems are horrible on paper, but can be livable once the crisis period of diagnosis is over.

I am not minimizing that goldens have some awful health challenges, as I am sitting here with a PU dog resting his head in my lap while I type. With the exception of cancer though, I feel like most goldens can live a good life with swift, good treatment.

 

[Ljilly28]

The separate issue of hunting ability keeps cropping up even though it is off topic to the OP. I spent quite a while writing a reply, but then I thought better of it bc it will derail the thread and also be controversial.

 

[Ljilly28]

I am hopeful that the Morris study will give us some more definite guidelines to improve the health of Goldens. But until then, what can be done?

What about enlarging the gene pool? One of the things I've daydreamed about is the notion of adding a BYB dog as a stud. Yes, it's risky. But suppose one found a nice BYB dog with at least some of the pedigree known. And what if the breeder offered to pay for (yeah, this is where a lot of you check out, I know ) testing for the dog in lieu of a stud fee? And what if that dog passes clearances?

Would that be worth the risk of bringing new genes into your breeding program?

One of the problems with that is that when you look back 24, 30 generations, there is such a severe bottleneck both on the field and show sides. Even a BYB with dogs unknown in 5 or ten generations will start to show familiar names as you go back.

Some good breeders have done some careful importing from Australia. I am not knowledgable about that, but I know that is why they did it- to truly outcross.

 

[Ljilly28]

My vet uses the cliched but I think true statement that "genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."

There are so many different ways dogs are stressed in the modern world, and chronic stress is wearing for immune systems.

 

[Ljilly28]

That is Copley. He is a flying dog.

 

[Ljilly28]

One of the only things about owning a golden I dislike is my immediate fear that anything wrong is cancer. One of the things I do like is the momentum and caring of the parent club, and research projects, foundations, and open discussion about cancer.

Whenever I have lost a golden, I have made a donation to the Zeke Cancer Fund to kind of memorialize the dog for myself, and I think that is one constructive thing that hasnt been mentioned yet that we can do- give what we can to good research projects.

The Bernese Mountain Dog Club has been very organized and made real headway with the cancer to which their breed is prone.

Now that Copley has PU and his mother does too, I have been able to talk with Wendy Townsend running the big study of it in goldens, and I am going to make the cross country drive to Purdue so he can be in the study. Hard as it is to think about it, and how much it makes my stomach lurch to write this, when he dies I will donate his eyes to them. Finn and Tally are both in an Idexx Study trying to see if there is a link between Anaplasmosis and Lymphoma.

In my will, I focused a piece on cancer research for goldens.

 

[Ljilly28]

Dana,

This is an interesting topic. I know a few breeders who cross hunting and conformation lines to build their line as they want a dog who can do it all. I wont even pretend to understand all the variables that go into this. I do know that health and temperament are first and foremost in their minds and they also want to see if by combining the two they can strengthen the health issues in their lines. One of them has just started conformation with one of her dogs....I haven't spoken to her in a while so not sure how her dog is doing....but she is very excited......

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I wish this were simple. I have a field dog I adore, who lives in my town and trains at the trainng center I own. UCDX HR SR Sand Dancer's XX MTB Ranger UDT MH WCX ** . He is my dog Finn's unlce, has wonderful clearances with good ones behind him, and a wonderful owner. I would love to breed Ranger to my GCH girl Lush. We have talked and talked about it, BUT, what if we just dampen down and dillute the good qualities each dog brings, and weaken their weaknesses? Great show homes will not want a puppy; great field trail homes will not want a puppy. I had the experience of purchasing two goldens from Topbrass looking for that dual dog, and the experience convinced me that it takes far more than a good field dog in his own right and a good show dog in her own right. In both cases, Topbrass dogs I bought had far weaker conformantion then the show bred parent and far less drive than the field bred parents, plus drastic bilateral elbow dysplasia even though parents had clearances. Outcrossing drastically introduces a gambling affect with which many breeders are uncomfortable.

 

[Ljilly28]

I get that! However if you are suggesting that she is just putting a dog from each line together without knowing what she is doing you couldn't be more wrong. As she herself isnt a member here I am not going to say who she is but i know that atleast one of her grandbabies is owned by a member here and they are well thought of.

The other...I am not as sure of....


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No I have no idea who you are talking about, and just mean generally breeding a dual bred dog is much more risky than it sounds on the face of it. Often, the puppies turn out to be less than both parents, in structure, healthy, type, and working ability. Very few people have done it successfully, in terms of consistently producing pups that improve on their parents.

 

[Ljilly28]

My same fear & unfortunately it became a reality this week for my girl Tiffany who was diagnosed with a mast cell tumor. Thankfully x-rays, ultrasound & bloodwork don't show anything else lurking at this time. Now it's a waiting game til her surgery on the 6th, fingers/paws crossed that it isn't attached to muscle.

So stressful for you- I hope Tiffany comes through with clean margins and no reoccurence. Did they stage the tumor? My friend has a dog that had mast cell surgery at 5 and lived to be 13 with no more issue, so I hope that is your case here too.

 

[Ljilly28]

Thanks for clarifying. I am a bit sensitive today sorry if I read to much into what you were saying!


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I don't have even any guess who you mean. It is just a topic I think & research about alot pertaining to choosing sires for my girl.