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In the bulldog club of America standard, it says that the pushed in nose is to allow the dog to breath while its face is pressed close to a bull. I think that the only people who could tell us about this are probably long gone, so who knows!
That pushed in nose may have been helpful at one point when it wasn’t so far inside of the face, but currently it doesn’t help them breathe, or keep cool at all. There is a lot of talk of BOAS testing and I do think breeders are trying to improve, but it is hard to reconcile respect for the fancy and among breeders and remember that these dogs aren’t being produced for their original purpose. The same thing happens with the GSD, despite not really having any singular purpose in breeding, we put them in the herding group and said that they were bred to be “living” fences, so this angulation and big trot helped with that.
I personally don’t necessarily mind the GSD as much, but it can be hard to understand how these dogs could do that job now. In Europe (Germany?) they do actually have a sort of endurance test for their dogs.
 

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Kate
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In the bulldog club of America standard, it says that the pushed in nose is to allow the dog to breath while its face is pressed close to a bull. I think that the only people who could tell us about this are probably long gone, so who knows!
Heheh, they need to explain why breeds like Pekes and English Toy Spaniels, etc.... have no noses.... :D
 

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Finn
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Heheh, they need to explain why breeds like Pekes and English Toy Spaniels, etc.... have no noses.... :D
I have no idea on those ones, and as they’re toy dogs that have (to my knowledge) always been companions, that one is probably directly related to human preferences.
 

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Kate
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I personally don’t necessarily mind the GSD as much, but it can be hard to understand how these dogs could do that job now. In Europe (Germany?) they do actually have a sort of endurance test for their dogs.
I think the breed got messed up when bred for police dog work (ie working group dog). And then guard dog work by many really messed up the breed. It still has serious temperament issues - especially with "covid puppies" not getting socialization. This can be a dangerous breed still.

That said - I grew up around GSD's at horse farms and at least the dogs that are farm bred (not the best pedigrees though), they have better temperaments and seem to have more herding drive than the big guys from show lines. <= I know I shouldn't say that because there's always going to be people jumping on that and going "SEEEEEE" and saying not to breed or buy big pedigree dogs. But understand what the different breeds do and have done to protect the breeds. Our breed (golden retrievers) has not ever been recommissioned to be a police or military dog. The breed standard literally nixes every desired trait for a working group dog with the emphasis on friendly, outgoing, trusting, etc....

The other breeds where they are, what has happened... main thing in my brain is that it's proof that dogs are not a generic animal that fits with any home. People need to be practical and pragmatic when selecting a dog breed for their particular home and strengths.
 

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I think the breed got messed up when bred for police dog work (ie working group dog). And then guard dog work by many really messed up the breed. It still has serious temperament issues - especially with "covid puppies" not getting socialization. This can be a dangerous breed still.

That said - I grew up around GSD's at horse farms and at least the dogs that are farm bred (not the best pedigrees though), they have better temperaments and seem to have more herding drive than the big guys from show lines.
The breed club has done a lot of work but it’s split in so many directions now. I’ve spent quite some time wondering how the breed got here and why it is in the herding group vs working since the breed was barely used for sheep work before becoming police/working sort of dogs.

Anywho, I do think, that while show breeders are coming back to producing dogs that can perform whether that is IGP or stock dog work, and stabilizing temperaments, the working dogs may be better representative of what the breed founders were aiming for.

In any case, I don’t really have a bone to pick with any purebred breed, but imo, most of the sporting breeds have, fortunately, stayed somewhat true to their purpose. This is especially true for Brittanies, GWP, GSP… and I’m critical of some of these breed standards that aim to explain every single extreme physical attribute of their breed (like the rolls on the bulldog’s face keeping the bull’s blood from the eyes…).
 
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