[Maidejdenis]

Hi everyone!

I am looking for any thoughts on an ontario breeder called “Grayvalley Goldens” in Ontario. She claims she is the best breeder in Canada with certified health on five generations. She is asking for 2500$. I cannot find any reviews and I certainly cannot find an article claiming that she is the best! Have any thoughts? How can I verify the health clearances that she claims to have? Looking at her website, what are you thoughts?

Thank you for your advice!

 

[Prism Goldens]

I'd never visited her site before. It is very lovely~
I imagine 'the best' would be in her own mind, though her dogs are lovely and she has done some diligent co-mingling with very good US breeders.. who is she breeding? Sire X Dam names. I do not see a litters page on her site.

 

[OscarsDad]

Good morning and welcome to the Forum. I moved your thread to a Forum area where you will receive more responses.

 

[Maidejdenis]

I'd never visited her site before. It is very lovely~
I imagine 'the best' would be in her own mind, though her dogs are lovely and she has done some diligent co-mingling with very good US breeders.. who is she breeding? Sire X Dam names. I do not see a litters page on her site.

Hi! Thank you for the quick response! She could not confirm exactly which female was going to be impregnated but the males were either going to be Anthony or Roc. She told me to look for Baby May and Jacques who supposedly come from the same parents that might be being bred later this month.

 

[Prism Goldens]

OK- well then! Anthony- eyes out of date by years, though she may have hard copies she really should send them to OFA (given she is in 'the best' category and the 'best' do best practices which includes sending to OFA LOL!) and his cardiac clearance is not sufficient as it is a specialist rather than cardiologist clearance. Is it better than a practitioner ? Maybe. Maybe not. Hearing heart sounds is best done by a cardiologist and (again on the 'best' claim) only a cardiologist clearance meets muster on the Code of Ethics. As well, he has an offspring who did not pass elbows- only two are listed so that is a 50% rate. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1682320
Roc- is a bitch.
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1572969 The aforementioned offspring who did not pass elbows is also her offspring. She has only a practitioner clearance on her heart- and like Anthony's, this is not sufficient. Eyes -while may be current - are not on OFA for many years. She's way behind.
Baby May- sired by Anthony- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1923267 eyes out of date, inadequate cardiac clearance.
Jacques- out of Roxy sired by Anthony-- he's the dog who did not pass elbows. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1923265 as well he has an insufficient cardiac clearance and no eyes on OFA.
DK by what you are saying she is breeding but IF she is breeding JacquesX Baby May that is very very close on Anthony- he'd be grandsire on both sides. Surely that's not the plan.

 

[Maidejdenis]

OK- well then! Anthony- eyes out of date by years, though she may have hard copies she really should send them to OFA (given she is in 'the best' category and the 'best' do best practices which includes sending to OFA LOL!) and his cardiac clearance is not sufficient as it is a specialist rather than cardiologist clearance. Is it better than a practitioner ? Maybe. Maybe not. Hearing heart sounds is best done by a cardiologist and (again on the 'best' claim) only a cardiologist clearance meets muster on the Code of Ethics. As well, he has an offspring who did not pass elbows- only two are listed so that is a 50% rate. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1682320
Roc- is a bitch.
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1572969 The aforementioned offspring who did not pass elbows is also her offspring. She has only a practitioner clearance on her heart- and like Anthony's, this is not sufficient. Eyes -while may be current - are not on OFA for many years. She's way behind.
Baby May- sired by Anthony- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1923267 eyes out of date, inadequate cardiac clearance.
Jacques- out of Roxy sired by Anthony-- he's the dog who did not pass elbows. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1923265 as well he has an insufficient cardiac clearance and no eyes on OFA.
DK by what you are saying she is breeding but IF she is breeding JacquesX Baby May that is very very close on Anthony- he'd be grandsire on both sides. Surely that's not the plan.

Wow! This is a lot of information thank you so much for your researches. I am a little bit disappointed now! Should I ask her to see the OFA documents? How should I address this? Would you recommand another breeder? Thank you for your time and I am thankful for this forum otherwise I would have just believed everything she told me!

Maude

 

[Prism Goldens]

Well, IRL, we do not know who she is breeding so maybe that whole supposition is incorrect on the breeding possibiliity... but as for the heart clearances, they are what they are- only a cardiologist clearance satisfies the Code because Goldens have heart problems that are heritable. Type in SAS here and you'll see all kinds of stories, and that is the typical GR cardiac problem. She could have current eye exams- that's entirely possible- and you might ask her if she does have current eyes on her breeding animals and if so, if she plans to send to OFA or not. If she doesn't, you might ask her to scan you the exam forms and share them via PM w me or someone else here educated on normal eye exam forms. Eyes (because GR have heritable eye issues too) should be done every 12 months or more frequently to satisfy compliance with the Code of Ethics. I'm sure they will be lovely puppies, depending of course on who she is breeding, but for me personally, breeding Jacques to Baby May would be too close for my own comfort. I am not a pro on Canadian breeders- I'd ask someone like BlazenGoldens further north or K-9 Design about that (tho Anney is only about 30 min north of me she does do Canada often and her dogs get used at stud up there). The breeding I have in Canada is with Goldcker Goldens in Alberta, and I am not sure when she's going to use it but it's there.

 

[Prism Goldens]

Just FYI- here is the Code for the Canadian GRC Code of Ethics and honestly, the inability to get a cardiologist doesn't apply because a quick google search shows at least 4 within an hour.

 

[Maidejdenis]

Well, IRL, we do not know who she is breeding so maybe that whole supposition is incorrect on the breeding possibiliity... but as for the heart clearances, they are what they are- only a cardiologist clearance satisfies the Code because Goldens have heart problems that are heritable. Type in SAS here and you'll see all kinds of stories, and that is the typical GR cardiac problem. She could have current eye exams- that's entirely possible- and you might ask her if she does have current eyes on her breeding animals and if so, if she plans to send to OFA or not. If she doesn't, you might ask her to scan you the exam forms and share them via PM w me or someone else here educated on normal eye exam forms. Eyes (because GR have heritable eye issues too) should be done every 12 months or more frequently to satisfy compliance with the Code of Ethics. I'm sure they will be lovely puppies, depending of course on who she is breeding, but for me personally, breeding Jacques to Baby May would be too close for my own comfort. I am not a pro on Canadian breeders- I'd ask someone like BlazenGoldens further north or K-9 Design about that (tho Anney is only about 30 min north of me she does do Canada often and her dogs get used at stud up there). The breeding I have in Canada is with Goldcker Goldens in Alberta, and I am not sure when she's going to use it but it's there.

You are awesome! Thank you! I just sent her few questions. Will tell you what she says!

 

[Maidejdenis]

Just FYI- here is the Code for the Canadian GRC Code of Ethics and honestly, the inability to get a cardiologist doesn't apply because a quick google search shows at least 4 within an hour.

Hi! So her respond was a little bit agressive.

“
Maude:

Just a reminder puppy Is sold on a non-breeding contract/registration with the CKC.

As discussed, we do OFA clearances for eyes, heart, elbows, and hips .

We are premier member of the CKC and follow the CKC code of ethics. We do all the required testing that is OFA recognized and approved.”

what do you think?

 

[Prism Goldens]

I don't know if anyone else is reading this thread? Maybe someone else here knows more than I do about CKC.
But it makes zero difference if the puppy you are buying is a CKC non-breeding contract or not- the one dog does not have an elbow clearance(OFA is the only North American elbow clearer) and what good is a years old eye exam? You want health-especially in a pet puppy, right? Breeding has nothing to do with that. I think you can read the CoE for yourself. I dk what a premier member of CKC is- I see no such designation on their application-https://www.ckc.ca/en/Files/Forms/Membership/Membership-Application. I would move on, myself.

 

[aesthetic]

FWIW, I would avoid the breeder you mentioned based on the "follow the CKC Code of Ethics" part of her message - the Code of Ethics Prism was referring to is set by the breed club (Golden Retriever Club of America or Golden Retriever Club of Canada). The CKC/AKC don't care if the parents have health tests, they're JUST a registry, they just care if the dog is purebred. To me, that just shows that the breeder doesn't really know what they're talking about. Plus, I think the GRCC's Code of Ethics is similar to the GRCA's Code of Ethics in that everything should be put on the database.

I recommend Cheer Kennels golden retrievers in Tecumseh, Ontario. Cori's a newer breeder, I think she's only had one litter so far, but she's doing really well (and so is that litter lol). Prism mentioned Anney (K9-design) in an earlier post, Anney's boy Brix was the sire of that litter. I don't know if Cori has any litters planned - she bred her bitch (Penny) in January but Penny didn't take, and the puppy she kept from the first litter isn't 2 yet, so it might be awhile. However, she is very involved in golden retrievers in Canada (she shows, does field stuff, and has some low-level rally and obedience titles on her dogs), so she will be able to point you to another breeder.

This is her kennel facebook page: Cheer Kennels Golden Retrievers she's quite active on facebook and should get back to you pretty quickly.

 

[Maidejdenis]

FWIW, I would avoid the breeder you mentioned based on the "follow the CKC Code of Ethics" part of her message - the Code of Ethics Prism was referring to is set by the breed club (Golden Retriever Club of America or Golden Retriever Club of Canada). The CKC/AKC don't care if the parents have health tests, they're JUST a registry, they just care if the dog is purebred. To me, that just shows that the breeder doesn't really know what they're talking about. Plus, I think the GRCC's Code of Ethics is similar to the GRCA's Code of Ethics in that everything should be put on the database.

I recommend Cheer Kennels golden retrievers in Tecumseh, Ontario. Cori's a newer breeder, I think she's only had one litter so far, but she's doing really well (and so is that litter lol). Prism mentioned Anney (K9-design) in an earlier post, Anney's boy Brix was the sire of that litter. I don't know if Cori has any litters planned - she bred her bitch (Penny) in January but Penny didn't take, and the puppy she kept from the first litter isn't 2 yet, so it might be awhile. However, she is very involved in golden retrievers in Canada (she shows, does field stuff, and has some low-level rally and obedience titles on her dogs), so she will be able to point you to another breeder.

This is her kennel facebook page: Cheer Kennels Golden Retrievers she's quite active on facebook and should get back to you pretty quickly.

Hi there! Thank you for your advice! I just wrote to her and I will also forget about grayvalley as she did not agree on showing me proofs of clearances.

wish me luck!I can’t wait to find my healthy GR!

 

[puddles everywhere]

Hi there! Thank you for your advice! I just wrote to her and I will also forget about grayvalley as she did not agree on showing me proofs of clearances.

wish me luck!I can’t wait to find my healthy GR!

You should write a complaint to the CKC as she is required as a member to have hips/elbows, heart by cardo, eyes every 12 months, thyroid & test for wobblers (I forget the initials) and according to their ethics code she is required to have current records available to the parent club at all times and present to all potential buyers. Canada is very strict on breeders. Help her clean up her act and help others avoid her by writing the CKC or emailing... just notify.

 

[Sweet Girl]

Good breeders in Canada definitely adhere to the Code of Ethics, send their clearances to the OFA, and get their heart clearances done by cardiologists. A failed elbow here is the same as a failed elbow in the U.S.

Not sure where she is, but the Golden Retriever Club of the Greater Toronto Area is holding their annual clearance clinic in April and they always have a cardiologist there. There definitely are specialists within easy reach of where she is.

I have no idea what a premier member of the CKC is either. There are two levels of membership, but the upper one just gets you quicker processing times and "An enhanced listing on The Puppy List, including a link to your website, contact details, ad copy, and up to three photographs." And you pay for it. There IS a Breeders Code of Ethics here but most good breeders would adhere to the Golden Retriever Club of Canada Code of Ethics, which includes Breeders' CoE.

 

[aesthetic]

There IS a Breeders Code of Ethics here but most good breeders would adhere to the Golden Retriever Club of Canada Code of Ethics, which includes Breeders' CoE.

I didn't know that the CKC had a Code of Ethics! That's good to know. Totally proves I should google things first before assuming lol

 

[Maidejdenis]

You should write a complaint to the CKC as she is required as a member to have hips/elbows, heart by cardo, eyes every 12 months, thyroid & test for wobblers (I forget the initials) and according to their ethics code she is required to have current records available to the parent club at all times and present to all potential buyers. Canada is very strict on breeders. Help her clean up her act and help others avoid her by writing the CKC or emailing... just notify.

yup I think i’ll do that actually... pretty disappointed in her, didnt want to show any proofs. Its fishy!