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Does anyone have any experience with Rockin B Farms out of Waco, TX? From the looks of it, they produce good looking English goldens but I'm having a hard time finding much information on them. I've looked thru their dog's genetic history on K9data.com and nothing stands out but I don't necessarily know what I'm looking at. Any help would be much appreciated.
 

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They do not have any verifiable clearances to be checked. This is not in compliance with the GRCA Code of Ethics. They imported these dogs, who might have clearances from the country they came from, but those clearances can be done as puppies so there is no telling if they would pass US clearances as adults. Dogs living and being bred in the US should have US clearances.

Here is the code of ethics:
 

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So, I'm taking a look at them, and I don't see any of the dogs they have on K9 data. I'm assuming these dogs came in already health tested? But European health testing standards are different. There is nothing on them in OFA and it doesn't look like any of the dogs they're calling champions are actually champions. One of the bitches they have posted results for, and her hip testing was done just over a year after she was born, which in the US, we can't do OFA testing reliably until 2 years old. PennHIP is different, but I don't think its a PennHIP type system (looking at another form it may be? But honestly they should really have this information in OFA and make it easy to read. Or have the testing redone). Finally, K9 data doesn't have any titles for the dogs they're calling champions? I think there needs to be a lot of updating going on.
 

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Right, so I see the K9 data page. It also shows no titles for either stud dog (like how the previous generations have Int. Ch., JCh, etc) even though they claim the dogs are titled. Which may be the case and K9Data hasn’t been updated.

K9 data is not a great way to verify health certs. There should be proof, like they have on the one bitch, or posts to the OFA database. As Emm stated, European standards of clearance are very different than ours.
 

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Thank's for the help. They are supposed to have more litters born the end of June or beginning of July so ill see if they can provide proof of clearances for the parents of the expected litters. We have also been looking at Dogwood Springs Goldens but they haven't responded to our text or voicemail yet.
 

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You may want to look through this list of EC Breeders-

 

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Here is Mike's k9data page. He was born 6/17 and his ownership on k9data was changed to these people 9/18 so even though it is pretty definitive he has no clearances per his reg # on OFA, he also didn't get the ones in the change history per KW 9/19 since he was already in the US which is why they were removed by the stellar Lesley Albin.
Dara- born 5/17 and same deal on the clearances which have been removed- input 10/18 so even in the best scenario underaged.
This handsome family is not built of good ethical breeders.
Mike X Dara is the 12 week old litter on marketplace. They apparently have quite a few other litters coming.
The other stud dog, Pedigree: Tramin Terminus, also has no clearances.
There's not much expectation on my part that you'll come back w any bare bones core 4 clearances on their bitches either- this sort of breeder imports animals sight unseen from eastern Europe, calls them English Creams and since per AKC none of them have been shown in any AKC shows, they also are not real Champions.
It galls me no end that people make a business out of our precious Goldens- with no regard for safety to their puppy people and the heartbreak they can cause selling puppies out of uncleared underaged animals. Even WITH clearances there are no promises but certainly hedging ones bets is the safest route in all things.
 

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On another post there was a question about who Tramin is. This breeder in Texas is showing us who Tramin is.

Tramin will export young dogs with health tests that may be under age for Ukraine and are certainly underage for the US. The breeders here rarely if ever step up to do the right thing and retest here according to the US testing standards. Considering that there have been stories that good health results can sometimes be purchased in some of the Eastern Europe countries, it is a concerning practice to try to present these documents as sufficient “clearances“ in the US.

Tramin also tends to put Junior Champion of Moldova titles on these dogs aimed for maximum profit in the rabid pale dog breeding market in the US. To put this in perspective that is like being a puppy champion of Virginia. But, the breeders here won’t educate you about that because they can call this title that Tramin went from Ukraine to a very tiny country to earn with puppies to show, a Champion dog.

Tramin is a business, a commercial kennel that has found the US market is willing to pay big dollars for these types of dogs because they can pop up an instant dog breeding business. Tramin has given them the spiel to make it easy to dupe buyers who are not aware of how to verify that health certifications are sufficient for the US or to dazzle buyers with a kennel full of Champions that are not Champion titles of adult merit.

Yes, overseas in their home country Tramin likely meets the requirements for ethical breeding. Yes, they do have adult titles on the dogs they keep in their own program. I am sure they have quality dogs in their home country. I just wish they seemed to care more about what happened to their dogs after they sell them to the US.
 

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Does anyone have any experience with Rockin B Farms out of Waco, TX? From the looks of it, they produce good looking English goldens but I'm having a hard time finding much information on them. I've looked thru their dog's genetic history on K9data.com and nothing stands out but I don't necessarily know what I'm looking at. Any help would be much appreciated.
 

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I was looking into them as well. I love the looks of their dogs but was wondering about the health, personality and working with the breeder. I have a certified therapy English Creme Golden now, he’s amazing and would like to start on another dog next spring. Please keep me posted
 

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Read up in this thread- nothing has changed in the last month with them and while they do have a flashy website, they are not doing anything right for Goldens.
It's a mindset I cannot grasp- livestock, order them in from Eastern Europe, breed them, not breed involved at all and I am of the opinion without true competition and seeing one's dogs in a ring with other GRs it is impossible to develop an eye for correct conformation. Stating on their site 'all our dogs are Ch's' just shows how little they know. A CH in Ukraine at 4 months old means absolutely nothing. All puppies are cute. So I say 'livestock' because that's what farmers do- buy breeding stock and breed them-
 

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I’m new to this page,not quite sure how it works. I found when I talked to them she would just keep referring to her website. When I said I was looking into next spring she said you better hurry and put your deposit down. Which alarmed me a little. I’m looking more for temperament and needing a larger female. I love the euro golden. My dog has 4 titles on him and he is two. None of them in the confirmation ring. I feel you can have a sound dog as long as it passes all the health clearances, I don’t believe a sound dog just comes from the confirmation ring. It was alarming to me that all these dogs are champions, it’s difficult to compete for champion titles. I’m not looking for a championship dog as we won’t be competing in the ring. I am looking for a larger euro Creme female to train for service. I need excellent hips as she will be mobility and need to be supportive. I would also love to start breeding and running my own program for these dogs for service. I will be finished with dog training school next spring and that is when I would like to acquire my new pup. I will then have the time to work with her. My male is neutered, as I’m not looking to breed him I just love what his temperament is and what he can do. Any suggestions on breeders would be fantastic. Thank you so much
 

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So, they do not have what we in the US who compete would consider real conformation titles. Of course sound dogs do come from all venues, but a good eye for conformation really imo only comes from conformation competition. It is not at all difficult in the Ukraine to get a Jr CH so don't imagine I am giving the CH brags even a 1/4 cup of value added.. I'm not.
You WILL need to get proficient at knowing when these supposed excellent hips were evaluated and know too that the 4 month old eval in the Ukraine is worth pretty much nothing except the value the breeder gets from uninformed people believing it is the same standard we hold US breeders to, which is done after 24 months, and listed on OFA all clearances.
What an exciting plan you have!
Because of this plan, you need to be REALLY REALLY discerning on the bitch you buy as your foundation bitch. Don't expect her to come with breeding rights not dependent on getting full OFAs at 24+ months, and starting ownership with a limited (no breeding) registration until you prove yourself in some way.
Bitches who can be bought full with just some more money to the breeder are not usually worth being your foundation.
 

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Plus another point- this breeder is not involved. All they do is buy breedable animals and breed them. Part of what you pay for is your breeder being available to you and knowledgeable (or at least having a mentor themselves that is knowledgeable) on all things reasonable to expect her to know- such as, temperament blips such as handling fear periods, structural blips such ask knowing when a dog is down in the pasterns -very common in the adolescents- what to do for it, veterinary knowledge, connections with others, there is just so much. If you had $3k to buy a foundation you are going to build from, it is smarter to be ultra safe in your choices since in all likelihood you will have two years training and upkeep and your heart involved before you ever are able to breed her. A lot is riding on this choice. I don't know the imported pedigrees like I do the US pedigrees, so I would not be a great resource for that part of it.. I'd suggest you touch base w Robin Burkett, she is Halia Goldens, and ask her to help you find a foundation bitch that would be a safe bet for your dream program. Even if I could say I know of a litter that has all clearances in place for sire and dam of that ECGR type, it wouldn't hold the weight it would for a US litter I knew of... I do not know the temperaments of the dogs 5 gens back like Robin would, and that stuff matters too..especially when you have such high goals. And also find a Golden or at least a Sporting Group breeder in your area and try to shadow them during whelping, etc so you have someone to call in the night two years from now if you need help.
 

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That’s exactly what I’m wanting!!! I found it interesting that she only gives you a year health cert when you can’t get OFA certs until 24 mos. My dogS parents have OFA and Pennhip. They also have elbows, heart, even eye clearances. She had a horrible accident and is no longer breeding. She was going to give me breeding rights after all my clearances were done and mentor me. She said she will be a reference for me, my trainers and vet will also. I just need to search. I’m looking for any help lol Thank you so much
 

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I just looked at the website for Rockin’ B for the first time, and read through their puppy “adoption” information, including all the different things they charge for. This is so sad; they definitely treat their dogs like livestock, and they also are clearly not involved in the golden retriever world, and have no knowledge of what makes a sound golden with a solid structure. In their description of one of their stud dogs, they describe him as having a silky coat, which as those who have any knowledge of the breed standard know, silky is not something a GR coat should be. Out of curiosity I clicked on their stud contract...oh boy. They charge $3500, which is wildly overpriced for any dog, especially one with incorrect structure, no titles, and invalid health clearances. The entire balance is due before the semen is even shipped (also pretty unheard of), and they charge the bitch owner an extra fee of unknown amount if she wants to keep a puppy for herself. Unbelievable...I wouldn’t touch this program if you paid me to. The sire of one of their studs is owned by a good friend of mine in the Netherlands, and she has some lovely dogs. I imagine she would not be happy to know that a dog of her line has ended up in this situation. This is why the quality breeders in Europe and the UK are so wary of sending a puppy to this country, and why so many of the dogs who aren’t good enough even for the commercial kennels of Eastern Europe end up being imported by people like Rockin’ B, and touted as the best dogs ever. SMH
873308
 

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That’s exactly what I’m wanting!!! I found it interesting that she only gives you a year health cert when you can’t get OFA certs until 24 mos. My dogS parents have OFA and Pennhip. They also have elbows, heart, even eye clearances. She had a horrible accident and is no longer breeding. She was going to give me breeding rights after all my clearances were done and mentor me. She said she will be a reference for me, my trainers and vet will also. I just need to search. I’m looking for any help lol Thank you so much
Hi Tricia,
I’m glad you’re working on doing your homework well in advance, especially since it sounds like you have big plans for your future puppy. Where are you located?
Robin Burket
 

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Plus another point- this breeder is not involved. All they do is buy breedable animals and breed them. Part of what you pay for is your breeder being available to you and knowledgeable (or at least having a mentor themselves that is knowledgeable) on all things reasonable to expect her to know- such as, temperament blips such as handling fear periods, structural blips such ask knowing when a dog is down in the pasterns -very common in the adolescents- what to do for it, veterinary knowledge, connections with others, there is just so much. If you had $3k to buy a foundation you are going to build from, it is smarter to be ultra safe in your choices since in all likelihood you will have two years training and upkeep and your heart involved before you ever are able to breed her. A lot is riding on this choice. I don't know the imported pedigrees like I do the US pedigrees, so I would not be a great resource for that part of it.. I'd suggest you touch base w Robin Burkett, she is Halia Goldens, and ask her to help you find a foundation bitch that would be a safe bet for your dream program. Even if I could say I know of a litter that has all clearances in place for sire and dam of that ECGR type, it wouldn't hold the weight it would for a US litter I knew of... I do not know the temperaments of the dogs 5 gens back like Robin would, and that stuff matters too..especially when you have such high goals. And also find a Golden or at least a Sporting Group breeder in your area and try to shadow them during whelping, etc so you have someone to call in the night two years from now if you need help.
Thank you!!!!!
 
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