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Review of “New England Goldens” golden retriever breeder (TERRIBLE experience)

This is a review of “New England Goldens” which is also listed as “Windham Meadow View Golden Retrievers” and “Pup Star Photography” and “Windham Meadow View Boxers” located in Windham, NH.

I was searching for a local breeder and found New England Goldens but their price was considerably higher than most other breeders. He is charging $2400 a pup and puts the price right on their pictures like they’re an appliance or something! Other breeders in the area charge $1700 on average. So I decided to email them to politely ask WHY the price is so high and NOT to haggle, considering it may have been a complicated birth with a c-section or because a champion pedigree sire was arranged, etc:
Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Hello,

I was browsing your website and noticed you still had three female puppies available as of 10/13. I am writing to ask if any of the three are still available. My family and I are interested. I would have to ask perhaps why the puppies cost as much as they do, I am just wondering if perhaps you could itemize some of your own costs to me so I may understand the price better. If you would like to contact me, I can be reached at <number removed>.

Thanks,
<my name>
To which Craig responded with:
Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:20 AM

Good morning <my name>,

What is this, Best Buy?

Lol.

Craig
He then sent another condescending email:
Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:40 AM


Itemization:

• AKC Registered
• OFA Hip joint certified parents
• Champion lines
• Trained
• Calmest around
• Socialized
• Available
• What people will pay
• The work involved to bring these pups to you
• Quality
• Looks
• Genetic guarantees
• Mercedes Vs Chevy
• Harvard Vs UMass
Followed by a third:
Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:53 AM


Anyway, those three females left last weekend. They are gone. They go fast. Site not updated yet to reflect the change in availability. We have another bunch ready this weekend.
Naturally I was offended by such a reply because every other breeder I have contacted was more than happy to provide this information. I simply wanted to get to know them as a breeder and gauge what kind of people they are. Nevertheless I was extremely put off and responded as so:
Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:07 AM

Hi Craig,

The question I asked was perfectly reasonable and something other breeders have gladly provided me. As a breeder you must be sure your clients are good people; as a client I have to make sure the breeders are good people. Judging by your lack of professional tact and condescending nature, I do not believe you love your dogs as much as you say you do. Had you corresponded more professionally I would have been willing to spend whatever the price was; money is not an issue of mine, but the quality of the person breeding and raising the dog is. If you wish to handle this like an adult, drop the acronyms, and the condescending attitude then I would gladly like to work with you. Otherwise please do not contact me ever again.

Best regards,
<my name>
I don’t believe my question was unreasonable and I made to sure to ask it in a civil manner. I also don’t think I was being rude, unless I’m missing something here. If I was rude then I apologize, but I certainly didn’t need such a rude response.

Breeders have lots of expenses which they must endure and I simply wanted to know how these expenses are divided. Some may spend more money at the vet, some may purchase organic food, some may make raw food, and so on. It’s an excellent and easy way to gauge the history of the pups.

If I was asked the same question I wouldn’t be offended at all, assuming they were civil about it. Some people may be sensitive and a simple “no thank you, that’s personal” would have sufficed, or just in general a civil reply explaining why asking something like that is rude because I honestly had no idea!

With his final reply he clearly had no intent of handling this like an adult:
Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:57 AM


We don't want people that haggle on price. My condescending nature was designed to make you go away. Your worthless to my pups. Get lost.
There was absolutely no intent of haggling in my original email. Asking someone WHY a price is what it is, is NOT the same as asking to haggle on it. He then sent ANOTHER, unwarranted email:
Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:59 AM

creep

My husband then called him to make it clear never to contact us again. The first call Craig answered and all he said was “this is Craig.” My husband then said something along the lines of “I thought I was very clear not to contact us ever again if you can’t handle the situation like an adult” which is admittedly a little aggressive but my hubby can be a bit overprotective. Craig immediately hung up, so my husband called back and the first thing Craig says is ”do not contact me again either” which my husband replied “Really? You’re the one who can’t act like an adult.” which Craig responded with ”Get out of here!” and hung up.

I understand it’s everyone’s right to be rude if they want to and choose their customers as they please, but this is no way to gain the confidence of customers. I honestly had no idea my request for an itemized breakdown of the price was something rude to ask. Personally if I was a breeder I would be thrilled that a potential client was doing their research and making sure the breeder does everything properly, considering how many backyard breeders there are.

My concern with Craig’s attitude is that he simply sees these dogs as a commodity with how sensitive he is when their price is questioned. It’s my understanding that if you are a respectable breeder who prides themselves in the pedigree of their dogs, then you’d be more than happy to gloat a little bit and prove how you’re the “best” around. There’s nothing wrong with charging a respectful amount for your pups, but any true Golden lover would never put prioritize the price of their pups over good owners and a good home. I’ve always been of the opinion that a good breeder does not do it for the money but for the love of the dogs. Obviously a price must be put on each pup to cover any expenses (vet bills, food, toys, etc) and it isn’t wrong to pocket some of it considering it is an endeavor raising them, but running this purely for profit is a HUGE red flag.



In short: I had a terrible experience and would never recommend this breeder to anyone. For those who are skeptical, I suggest calling and asking the same thing I did. I’m sure he will have something colorful to say to you as well.
 

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You aren't going to like what I have to say. I have issues with both the breeder and your approach.

1. I have no idea what you expect to see in an itemized cost of a puppy or dog. Please clarify. I have dogs and I can't imagine how I could possibly answer your request for an itemized cost of a puppy. So I'm not surprised at the breeder's response.

2. The breeder has a huge lack of information on the actual AKC names of the dogs he owns. He uses a combination of call names and full registration names which makes it hard to figure out exactly which dogs are being bred to which dogs. I think that is intentional.

3. I would not use this breeder for his complete lack of clear and definitive information about his dogs. Without clear information, you don't know if any of the dogs have clearances or what exactly their pedigrees are. The breeder also doesn't bother to show or do anything but breed dogs. By the way Sir Benson Jr actually has OFA excellent hips.

4. The other information you list from websites like: D&B and findthebest are meaningless from a business standpoint. I don't know why you bothered to include them.

Personally I think you might want to get a stuffed animal. You can cost that out nicely if you spent time with the manufacturer. Sorry you aren't getting what you want, I'm not sure if anyone can give you that information. Even if a breeder had it, I doubt they would share it with you.
 

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Itemized list?? Lol oh geez!!
 

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Sounds like you spoke to a greeder and not a breeder. From my experience, champion bloodlines and c-section births do not drive up the puppy fee. My Oatmeal had champion parents and was born via c-section. The breeder still only charged $1800, the going rate for all puppies coming from her regardless if the parents were finished or not. I'm in MA too.
 

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I think if this Breeder felt that what the OP asked was out of line there is a lot of ways to tell them or to just simply ignore the email, rather then send emails being so ridiculous.


This may be the stud .. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

and may be the bitch .. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

IF these are the dogs in question, this Breeder only seems to do hips. Though that is all that is listed on the website too.
 

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I don’t believe my question was unreasonable and I made to sure to ask it in a civil manner. I also don’t think I was being rude, unless I’m missing something here. If I was rude then I apologize, but I certainly didn’t need such a rude response.

Breeders have lots of expenses which they must endure and I simply wanted to know how these expenses are divided. Some may spend more money at the vet, some may purchase organic food, some may make raw food, and so on. It’s an excellent and easy way to gauge the history of the pups.
I didn't think the OP was out of line. I certainly understood her question, although I can see that another person reading it may not be. She was merely questioning why his prices were so much more, and if there was something that the breeder was doing that made the price of his pups more than most breeders. Cut some slack.

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To my knowledge, a breeder wouldn't be able to produce an itemized list of what goes into a puppy price.

I seem to recall reading a thread on the forum that tried to break down what breeders spend on any given litter. I thought it was called, "how much does that puppy in the window cost?" But I may be confusing that with another dog care/cost post.

I'll try to hunt it up when I get to a computer since my quick app search didn't get me what I was looking for exactly. Perhaps someone here knows what thread, to which I refer and can help me find the link.
 

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The guy comes across as a massive jerk and I'd have just blocked him after his first response. Life is too short to waste time screwing around with unpleasant people.

Now, asking for an itemized list of the costs does sound slightly odd to me, but I think the gist is totally reasonable. The guy's charging 700 bucks over the average. I'd want to know why as well. I might just have phrased it a bit differently. ;)

But- part of finding the puppy that's right for you is finding a breeder whose style fits yours. And if someone is going to take your questions the wrong way, they're probably not going to be a good fit for what you're looking for anyway.

Good luck with your search - the right pup is out there and finding them will make all the hassle of searching worthwhile.
 

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You aren't going to like what I have to say. I have issues with both the breeder and your approach.
Even with the OP's approach nothing really warranted that kind of response from the breeder. This guy does deserve having his 'kennel' red flagged here on this website so other people can find out and realize how terrible his attitude is. Everything else on top of that is more icing to the cake for why prospective puppy owners should stay away from this guy.

I do believe it is perfectly appropriate for any prospective puppy owner to ALWAYS question the price of a breeders pups. This gives you a huge amount of insight into the reasoning and thought process behind a breeder. Having interviewed well over dozens of breeders within the NJ area, many of them always falsely advertise a dogs credentials (or make over exaggerated claims) in order to up sell the puppy price which you end up finding out about via the pedigree even those listed in the GRCA puppy referral list (Pennylane and Jansun goldens are the exception along with several others, they are great breeders).

The best advice I can give anyone wanting to adopt a puppy, is that when you adopt a puppy you are not just getting that puppy, you are entering into a relationship (contract) with the breeder. If you cannot question the breeder on anything relating to the puppy you are adopting, then there is no trust which is a huge red flag. I normally always ask in a polite manner when an average breeder with no direct champion bloodline asks for $2000 for their pups in NJ, and I always use the competition as leverage.

You slowly begin to realize in NJ, that the only reason why people are charging $2000 dollars for a pet quality GR in NJ is because
A.) They are able to get away with it with people who do not do research
B.) They are falsely advertising their dogs.
C.) They have the reputation (Which in my opinion is acceptable)

I mean for gods sake Cynanzar charges $2000 and frankly I think the majority of this forum would vomit from people even thinking about adopting pups from that place.
 

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'Always question the price of a pup' seriously? I guess there would be a lot of people not getting a pup, LOL and I would not blame the reputable breeders for it.
Dont get me wrong, I am not blaming reputable breeders for this hence why I mentioned there are exceptions to it. But there is nothing wrong with questioning the price that a breeder has put on a pup. I don't understand why people on this forum stigmatize people that question this as if they think all people who do this are simply looking at the GR as a commodity when we are not.
 

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When I was researching breeders to find Deaglan I never even once inquired about the cost of a pup. I was focused on clearances and the breeder's operation.
 

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When I was researching breeders to find Deaglan I never even once inquired about the cost of a pup. I was focused on clearances and the breeder's operation.
So was I, in fact the last question I would always ask is about the price at the very end once everything checked out. I would ALWAYS visit the breeders location to check it out. This doesn't mean I love GR's any less than the next person. This question was used as a means to find out the thought process and reasoning behind a breeder.
 

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In my opinion, I will not question a breeder who has proven themselves and do all health clearances on why they price their puppies the way they do. If their puppy fee is in the range for the area, I just think I'm paying for good hips, elbows, hearts, eyes, and temperament.
 

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So was I, in fact the last question I would always ask is about the price at the very end once everything checked out. I would ALWAYS visit the breeders location to check it out. This doesn't mean I love GR's any less than the next person. This question was used as a means to find out the thought process and reasoning behind a breeder.
You lost me. Thought process? Reasoning behind a breeder?
 

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You lost me. Thought process? Reasoning behind a breeder?
Whenever you ask a question like this, some breeders will normally make claims, sometimes even false claims as to why the price of the puppy is 2000 or better yet why they are better than another breeder and in rare circumstances become defensive if they feel insecure.

The purpose isn't to haggle or even reduce the price for that matter if you are interviewing a reputable breeder, its to figure out how trust worthy the breeder is. Reputable breeders do not buckle under this question as their reputation and their knowledge speaks for itself. Neither is it anymore personal than the questions a reputable breeder may ask you in person when they interview you.

In my opinion, I will not question a breeder who has proven themselves and do all health clearances on why they price their puppies the way they do. If their puppy fee is in the range for the area, I just think I'm paying for good hips, elbows, hearts, eyes, and temperament.
I can completely sympathize with this opinion, and I know many others will agree with you. But to me, I am not just about to get a best friend for life that is in good health, I am also signing a contractual agreement (relationship) with a breeder and this means a lot to me as it does with many other breeders I have interviewed. No matter a breeders reputation they are not above being questioned on anything in the contract that they present to me, the price being one of these factors reguardless of their reputation.

The thing is, you are not just paying for a healthy dog, you are also paying for that breeders reputation which can be evaluated in the contract and by interviewing them and by doing research on them.
 

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This would be like asking a buyer to give me their "itemized" account to make sure they could afford a puppy to take care of...

I am not sure what I would say if someone asked me for an itemized statement of why my puppies are x amount of money! Lol! Honestly, I feel my puppies are worth much more than I charge, but would never charge that much! :).

Another thing people lie!! If one does their research on the breeder, previous puppies, clearances, and such.., there would be no reason to question the price of a puppy!!
 
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Whenever you ask a question like this, some breeders will normally make claims, sometimes even false claims as to why the price of the puppy is 2000 or better yet why they are better than another breeder and in rare circumstances become defensive if they feel insecure.

The purpose isn't to haggle or even reduce the price for that matter if you are interviewing a reputable breeder, its to figure out how trust worthy the breeder is. Reputable breeders do not buckle under this question as their reputation and their knowledge speaks for itself. Neither is it anymore personal than the questions a reputable breeder may ask you in person when they interview you.
This is your post from the NJ Breeder thread.


Seems like a great place, and they have at least some clearances, id still verify all clearances up front. If you can wait id still recommend pennylane and jansuns goldens. They were great to talk to, cared for their dogs and have a great reputation and they have up to date medical information on all their dogs. The problem in New jersey is that it appears a large number of the breeders are just colluding their prices and over inflating them for pet quality pups. The asking price has practically inflated to $2000 which is slightly ridiculous and only in rare circumstances actually warranted. Most breeders in NJ rarely update their vet checks, or won't upload them to the OFA website because they have to pay $10 to do so, or simply ask for crazy demands (IE pay 2000 dollars in cash, resulting in no record of transaction/tax write off) to the point were it is slightly ridiculous.


I can completely sympathize with this opinion, and I know many others will agree with you. But to me, I am not just about to get a best friend for life that is in good health, I am also signing a contractual agreement (relationship) with a breeder and this means a lot to me as it does with many other breeders I have interviewed. No matter a breeders reputation they are not above being questioned on anything in the contract that they present to me, the price being one of these factors reguardless of their reputation.

The thing is, you are not just paying for a healthy dog, you are also paying for that breeders reputation which can be evaluated in the contract and by interviewing them and by doing research on them.
You're contradicting yourself.
 

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This would be like asking a buyer to give me their "itemized" account to make sure they could afford a puppy to take care of...

I am not sure what I would say if someone asked me for an itemized statement of why my puppies are x amount of money! Lol! Honestly, I feel my puppies are worth much more than I charge, but would never charge that much! :).

Another thing people lie!! If one does their research on the breeder, previous puppies, clearances, and such.., there would be no reason to question the price of a puppy!!
I can agree with this, asking for an itemized account for the puppy was perhaps the incorrect question to ask from the OP. Buyer should have questioned the breeders reputation rather than the actual puppy. The health of a puppy can be researched in other ways along with its pedigree.

I still think the price question though is important just to find out how trustworthy the breeder is and how confident they are with their pups but may be unnecessary if the asking price is the average in the area. This wasnt the case in OP's scenario though.

You're contradicting yourself.
How so? Because I evaluate a breeders reputation by asking why they priced their puppy at 2000 (Which is one way I evaluate their reputation which is essentially their trustworthyness)? Which frankly is something we all do on this forum in many different ways....
 
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