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Rescue Going Bad!! Need Help.

2K views 15 replies 13 participants last post by  SoGolden 
#1 ·
I know this a long post, but I need help with Shadow.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=53288

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=53429

Those are the links to my first 2 threads.

I am really losing my patience with this ungrateful stubborn mutt. OK ... I got that out of my system ... and no, she didn't see me type it. :):)

1) She is digging even worse and in more places now ... poop, cayenne pepper worked briefly. Not anymore. The places where she is digging is difficult to put wire down because they are established gardens. I have caught her in the act and said NO! OUT! and then taken her to a good place to play for a little while. Still not working.

2) She has not had one accident in the house ... that is great. But she goes "outside" about every 2 hours. About 4 bowel movements a day (Feeding Pro Plan). At night she sleeps in my room on the floor and wakes me every 2 to 2 1/2 hours to go "outside" and she does. Wearing me out!! I have been putting her on a leash, so straight out, business done and straight back in ... no playtime. Not in a crate because she hates the crate, but lately has been balking at going into the bedroon a "nite nite" time. Have to trick with treats.

3) She is stubborn. I would also say obsessive. And I mean to a fault. I know some of you got a smile on your face when you read that, but it has gotten bad. She rarely listens and only usually when it benefits her. eg.s. When we are eating, she will constantly try and take food or beg. When told no or to lie down just goes into a barking (playful) spell or walks away only to return in 10 seconds. She is obsessive about trying to play, sniff, herd the 8 y/o Chih/JR mix who is not very happy Shadow is here. Some times she acts like she isn't there and then she will do anything to get to her. Going through us, knocking a table over to get behind the couch. Even with me saying no and trying to get her attention. Most of the timeI have to go grab her collar. there are times when I just keep the leash on her and wirth me in the house. Constantly jumping on the family (a 75 and 68 year old in the house), mouthing hard and when to told no just thinks you are playing and becomes more "playful" which is becoming dangerous, destructful, and nerve racking. Will absolutely ignore any commands if something else is on her mind. She is in the crate right now because she would not obey. Was playing fetch in the house. But she has to run back and jump on you and mouth you (bite) for fun. When told no she just keeps on doing it or stops for 5 seconds and goes to somebody else and does the same thing. She hates to go in the crate. The last 15 feet to the crate are just dragging her. Once in she barks for about 1-2 minutes but then quiets down.

I take Shadow on at least one walk a day, most days, play in the yard, to the dog park twice and she was scared of the bigger dogs (or the number of dogs) and snapped a few times so I left, and to church softball field. Good exercise.

I have worked with her training. She seems to do well for a while and then loses focus.

I have had her for 23 days. She seems to be getting worse and not better. I know, some of you think I am getting worse. This is not my first dog or golden. I have never had a dog that is just so totally stubborn that the human's voice doesn't mean much, if anything. While training, of I don't show treats she will walk away even when being called. I am almost at my wits end with this dog.
No, I do not know her history.

I have considered training. But, frankly I don't want to put a lot of money into that if it is not going to have much of an effect. And I have got to tell you, I am not very confident. But I know, how will I know if I don't try. I went with an older (I know 1 1/2 is still puppy years) rescue because it would be saving a dog and so I would not have to go through the initial puppy stages. If I am going to put the time and money into doing the puppy "stuff" and training and get up so often, etc., I would rather just do some research find a great breeder and and get my own puppy. Actually, the more I think about it, the better that sounds.

I will answer any questions you have for me.

Please help. Desperate.

Dan
 
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#2 ·
She's getting worse b/c the honeymoon is over and she feels more comfortable. Hence the bratty behavior. Also, she's in adolescence, which means she's going to test boundaries.

I'd do a training class with her. She will bond better with you, which will make her behavior fall into place.
 
#3 ·
I fed Pro Plan for the first week we had Cooper, He was pooping like 4 / 5 Times a day!! Was insane lol... Now that hes completely switched over to blue buffalo, he has 1 - 2 poops a day.
Maybe a new food will help with pooping less like it did with my dog. I was always told the better the food, the less they will poop. Worked in my case :)


Sorry but i dont have much advice on the training...
 
#4 ·
I have had 3 goldens, all purebred, the first 2 were rescues - one at 10 mos and the other at 7 mos and the third i got as a 9 wk old puppy. The rescues had the very best temperment and transitioned very easily to my environment. The first 3 weeks with the 10 month old were hairy but with work and training, he was the very best dog ever. The puppy on the other hand was a brat with ME from day one and it never changed for 9+ years. He "tolerated" me unless I had food. As a pup, he would leap in the air at me the second I walked inthe room, nip at me, grab whatever clothes i had on and usually managed to catch just enough skin with it to leave a nice bruise. I looked like a battered wife. No amount of training, or anything worked. We tried it all. It leveled off after a while but he never really listened when I spoke, never came when I called, --- but he was our pup and we just found ways to get around things. I blamed it on the Gold Rush line. o well. sorry - i guess I didn't help much did i? Point is, the 2 rescues were gems and this one was a challenge. But I still loved him to death and chose to deal with the nonsense and find ways t get around it rather than throw in the towel. I was never sorry I did. Sorry - wish I could be more help.
 
#5 ·
I think the crate is still a good idea. Gives you a break too. Maybe a VERY special treat allowed ONLY in the crate. It is tough training a puppy....it has to be so much harder doing a large dog.
Good luck, don't back down. Is he getting enough outside exercise like walks or runs?
 
#6 ·
Dan, for the digging, I think you simply can't leave her outside without supervision. If that means she's in the crate or gated in the kitchen for 4 hours, so be it. Better than you getting really annoyed with holes in your gardens. Are the holes in the gardens or in the grass? I have boundary trained all my dogs because I love my flower gardens and don't want them in there. For puppies, it was stakes at the perimeter of the garden, two separated layers of string with bright ribbons tied to the string (so the ribbons blow in the wind....a little scary). For my rescue, every time and I mean EVERY time he set foot in the gardens, I would say "uh uh, back up". It took him a week to learn this. If I had left him in the yard while I was out, he would not have learned this lesson. You must be present to let a dog know what's acceptable and what's not.

As far as Shadow being stubborn, maybe she is. It's important to figure out what motivates her. Maybe it's a treat you haven't tried yet or a toy, maybe it's a good, quick game of tug of war. Will she redirect the mouthing to something else you offer her? If not, a time out in the kitchen behind a gate each and every time she puts teeth on human flesh is called for. You accompany the time out with a spoken word or phrase, such as "no bite". Don't get angry, don't raise your voice, just tell her "no bite" and take her to the time out place, from which she cannot rejoin the group until you physically go get her. You don't need to leave her long; dogs have a short attention span and longer won't mean she's learning the lesson any better. Good luck....don't give up, even though it's frustrating. Three weeks isn't very long to settle into a good routine:)
 
#7 ·
Honestly, it sounds like she has neve rhad a simgle ounce of real training. Now being in middle of her teenage period, it not only makes her worse as far as testing limits, but since there never have been any limits to test, it's a free for all. I would start with real training classes ASAP if you want to see a change. Of course a humans voice and "no" will not mean anything at all to her, she's never been taught that it SHOULD mean anything at all to her. Understand, she's a toddler mentally and has no understanding of what words mean, she never made the connection the way it sounds. You need to be very, very patient(its going to take ALOT longer then 23 dayts to see changes with this pup) and teach her what words(commands) mean and how to obey them. Since oyu do not know her background, you don't know if along with never having any real training if she has any abuse of neglect in her past which will only add to the issues you are seeing, this is where you have to look at her as an abused baby. She senses your frustration and reacts to it with equal or greater engery. You need to remain clam and assertive at all times. The things you're stating at exactly what you would expect out off a puppy in the early months of its life, so without training, thats exactly where she's at. Thats wher you need to start with her. At the very beginning. I would certainly crate her. Limit all liquid a few hours before bed, and crate her during the night. Limit how often you will take her outside during bedtime and establish a routine. Then slowly, after changing her food to a better, preferably ultra-premium food as previously suggested, eliminate the bedtime going out all together until its wake up time. The dog will fight the crate and bark at first as it not used to it and it will take some time to get used to. even if you choose NOT to crate, you still have to learn to simply ignore the barking and pestering to go out after the training period is over. At this point sh ehas YOU trained. She knows if she barks and makes a fuss, you will take her out. At this age she should have no trouble whatsoever holding her urine and fecal matter through out the night when sleeping. Make sure she's getting a solid amount of exercise (at LEAST a full hour walk each day plus play times along with it) to help her sleep through the night. As far the dinnertime goes, I would setup baby gates and have her secluded from the dinner table each time she starts with the antics. Ity's going to take work and time but it will work if it's kept up with. Each time she starts with problems at dinner time, simply remove her to the "time out" area for a few minutes and then let her back in to try again. Yes, it IS alot of work and energy, but with a small puppy this is exaxctly the type of thing you have to do in order to set boundaries and with the added responsiblity of taking on a rescue with unknown backgrounds and possible abuses....you have to start even further backwards then you would with a puppy that has a clean slate(so to speak). It will work out in time if you put the time into the training and work at the above issues. I'm very happy you took the chance to rehab a golden that needs so much work. In the end it will pay off and you'll have a friend for the life of the pup. Just keep reminding yourself that she is nothing more hten a baby who was never taught how things work with manners. Oh, I would use a similiar method for the mouthing as well. Each time she mouths, I would remov eher to a time out area for 2-3 minutes, telliong her "no" each time. For goldens, the worse thing you can do is take them away from their "People". They want nothing more then to be with their family so being removed for a few minutes is much worse then anything else. You can also try leaving a small short leash attached to her, let her drag it around and each time she starts to mouth, give a leash correction and say "no" each time. This also works with jumping as you can simply step on the leash while giving a command. I wish you luck with the training she is going to need, it's going to be a long road but in the end a very successful one that will be rewarding during the training, allowing you to bond even closer and when you are done(is training ever really done?) you'll have a golden you can be proud of.
 
#8 ·
I think if you choose training and are VERY consistant it will work. A trainer can give you a number of pointers and even let you know if your dog is truly stubborn. My Tucker can be a handful. I'm smiling when I say that because yesterday he was so bored he was getting into so much trouble, my 20 year old son had to leave the room! I just don't give in. I guess you can say I'm more stubborn than Tucker is.

I won't give you any tips other than to try the training, but remember, if Shadow is stubborn Shadow may test you from time to time even having been trained. It's up to you to redirect the attention. Sometimes that is easier said than done.
 
#9 ·
I agree with all of the other suggestions, but I would like to add that you may want to have her to the vet to check for a urninary tract infection. That may be why she is getting up so many times during the night.

I totally understand the sleep depravation, I had one set of foster pups who had me up twice a night for the 7 weeks that they were with us before being adopted. Once they were gone, I slept like a rock for 3 nights in a row!
 
#10 ·
Dan,
I've had 4 adult golden rescues in the last 8 years. Two were easy and wonderful and bonded immediately and were no problem. Two were difficult.
The one I still have was hyper, destructive, male dog aggressive and other problems too. He has settled down with age and security and is now my love, but it was not an easy trip. If I did not have the ideal situation to handle that, I don't know what I would have done since he came from the pound and I had nowhere for him to go. My other pound rescue was a big, beautiful redhead who was scared of me for the first 3 months and ignored my commands completely. I was determined to make him love me, but I did consider rehoming him to someone with teenagers (especially boys) since that seemed to be who he preferred. We worked it out and he was my main man for the 2 yrs & 4 months I had him - he died from liver cancer over 2 years ago.
So, now that you know my life story I want to add that older rescues can take a few months to work out and settle down and the stubborn ones can challenge you completely out of patience. I agree that an obedience class would be good for training and bonding. Bonding is not always immediate with a new dog. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
That said, I want to add that all rescues don't work out. Did you get her from a rescue group that would take her back if you do not think it will work out? It might be better for her in a different situation and for you too. I'm not advocating that you throw in the towel, but if it is necessary then that's just the way it is sometimes.
 
#11 ·
....Constantly jumping on the family (a 75 and 68 year old in the house), mouthing hard and when to told no just thinks you are playing and becomes more "playful" which is becoming dangerous, destructful, and nerve racking.
Dan
Dan,
As my parents can attest, they don't mend as quickly after age 65... This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I hope you find a resolution--sooner than later--for all concerned. I know you have a tough situation on your hands. I wish you only the best outcome.
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
We adopted Bella when she was 2 years old, god she was a pain, digging stubborn you name it.

We have had her a year now, and she has finally settled with us, that how long it took for her to settle. She now understand's us and we understand her.

Yes we used to look at each other and say what have we taken on here, i used to write all my thoughts down on here just to get them off my chest.

When we ran out of patience we borrowed some more. She has turned into a right character. Yes she pulls on her lead, yes she is still stubborn and has the odd digging session but hey these things happen. But a year down the line we are seeing the signs of sticking with her.

With age and our help Bella will be fine.:crossfing

Keep going and things will get better

One other thought and i might be wrong but you changed her name, that might be a bit confusing when you are looking for a reaction from her (just a thought !!)
 
#15 ·
Wow ... Talk about some great input. I am going to Petsmart tomorrow to look into different food, Non-pull harness, and their training classes. Also, keeping the leash on her in the house (most of the time) especially during the "excited" times. Trying to maintain my cool better. Dam* that's hard. :) Crating at night and when I leave. She does not like the crate. Like I said earlier, it is basically me pulling her as she scoots on the floor. I have her bone in the crate and give her a treat once she is in and settled. I am not sure how else to handle this. I'll keep reading and looking for more input. Thanks again,
Dan & Shadow
 
#16 ·
I'm glad you are not giving up on Shadow! Good for you! As for getting her into crate, try using a really tasty, really "fragrant" treat that she can't resist and lure her in. ONLY use that special treat for getting her into crate. Don't let her have it at any other time... Once she is in crate and you have closed the door, give the treat. Continue this process for a long, long time--until you know she goes in happily and enjoys being in her crate.
 
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