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Discussion Starter #1
Question for the breeders: what makes you decide to repeat a breeding?

I know a repeat won't always turn out like the first breeding. But I'd assume a breeder would repeat a breeding if you had a very consistent and beautiful litter the first time around. I'd also guess the pedigree would have a lot to do with repeating if it was a particularly special cross. Are my assumptions correct?

Any other reasons breeders repeat past breedings?
 

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I would consider a repeat breeding if the first litter turned out particularly well, in my case that would mean at least a couple of good conformation prospects, with good temperaments and good health. I prefer to wait until the first litter is at least a year old, preferable two years old, so that I have a better idea of adult looks, health and temperament.

I've only done a repeat breeding once, and the second breeding turned out just as nice as the first breeding :)
 

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I also know of performance breeding that have been repeated because pups from the first breeding were so successful or showed so much promise that they were having inquiries for puppies of the same breeding.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I would consider a repeat breeding if the first litter turned out particularly well, in my case that would mean at least a couple of good conformation prospects, with good temperaments and good health. I prefer to wait until the first litter is at least a year old, preferable two years old, so that I have a better idea of adult looks, health and temperament.

I've only done a repeat breeding once, and the second breeding turned out just as nice as the first breeding :)
Thanks! Makes sense to wait for the first litter to grow up a bit so you can see how they turn out as adults.

It seems to me a lot of less responsible breeders (even those that do clearances) do a whole lot of repeat breeding, often to their own stud. From what I've notice very reputable breeders seem to do far, far, far less and only do a repeat when they are thrilled with the outcome of the first litter.

I almost bought a puppy from a repeat breeding, but decided not to because of the pedigree on the bitch's side, but in that case the breeder most certainly waited to see how the first litter turned out.
 

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It is pretty common to find people breeding to different boys when they are breeding for their program. If they got what they needed from the first breeding, then no need to repeat it. If not, then why repeat it? (Unless, for example, you got all boys and you needed a girl!) If you are moving ahead, then using the same dog constantly doesn't take you anywhere.
I really like what I got from my girl's first litter from a conformation perspective, but now I am looking to add to working ability so am looking elsewhere. I've been researching for months, and am not even planning to do the breeding until late summer!
 

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It is pretty common to find people breeding to different boys when they are breeding for their program. If they got what they needed from the first breeding, then no need to repeat it. If not, then why repeat it? (Unless, for example, you got all boys and you needed a girl!) If you are moving ahead, then using the same dog constantly doesn't take you anywhere.
I really like what I got from my girl's first litter from a conformation perspective, but now I am looking to add to working ability so am looking elsewhere. I've been researching for months, and am not even planning to do the breeding until late summer!
I was also curious about repeat breedings too.

But if they did get everything they wanted in the first litter and was happy with the outcome, why wouldn't they do it again?

Or from the other perspective, if they breed and didn't get what they wanted, I don't see why they would try again with the same sire/dam?
 

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If you are breeding for yourself, ie. breeding for your program, you got the improvement or correction you were looking for from that breeding. You have in the pup you kept the characteristic you were looking to get in order to move forward. This is different from doing a breeding simply to have pups to sell, and since you liked what was produced, then why not do it again. But for me as a breeder who has definite goals in mind (sound, handsome, long lived dogs who conform to the standard, and will be able to participate effectively in upper levels of hunt tests and as hunting commpanions), more of the same does not help me move forward in accomplishing my ultimate goal, unless by some miraculous stroke of fate that breeding combination produces EVERYTHING I ever want to see in a Golden retriever. And given everything I want, that would be a tall order!
 

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Another reason would be if the first litter turned out very well and the breeder didn't have the access they wanted to the dogs in that litter - like if they didn't keep anything to breed to and then found the adult dogs to be awesome. Storee's litter for example, her breeder didn't keep anything, so if she didn't have access to the kids, she might repeat so she could breed something from that mix.

But you are right, a lot of lower quality breeders use their own stud dog, cuts costs of paying for stud fees/clearances and so on. It's a 'red flag' to me if a breeder is using their own stud dog or a dog they've bred and sold to produce a litter. Unless of course that stud dog has titles and clearances and being used elsewhere too, which is a bit different. There are hundreds of stud dogs out there so it makes more sense to use a great one who has been proven in the ring/field and already produced pups to compare to. Like someone else posted here before, handsome and friendly doesn't cut it anymore... (not sure if I have that exactly right but you get the idea) both parents should have a title or four....

Lana
 

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But you are right, a lot of lower quality breeders use their own stud dog, cuts costs of paying for stud fees/clearances and so on. It's a 'red flag' to me if a breeder is using their own stud dog or a dog they've bred and sold to produce a litter. Unless of course that stud dog has titles and clearances and being used elsewhere too, which is a bit different. There are hundreds of stud dogs out there so it makes more sense to use a great one who has been proven in the ring/field and already produced pups to compare to. Like someone else posted here before, handsome and friendly doesn't cut it anymore... (not sure if I have that exactly right but you get the idea) both parents should have a title or four....

Lana
HUH??? , I think that is a tad harsh...we keep stud dogs to breed to our own bitches, most are either purchased from other quality breeders to compliment our programs or bred by us for a specific reason...I do seek out boys to compliment my girls best, but if I already have what I am looking for in my back yard why would I not use it :confused:
 

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But you are right, a lot of lower quality breeders use their own stud dog, cuts costs of paying for stud fees/clearances and so on. It's a 'red flag' to me if a breeder is using their own stud dog or a dog they've bred and sold to produce a litter. Unless of course that stud dog has titles and clearances and being used elsewhere too, which is a bit different. There are hundreds of stud dogs out there so it makes more sense to use a great one who has been proven in the ring/field and already produced pups to compare to. Like someone else posted here before, handsome and friendly doesn't cut it anymore... (not sure if I have that exactly right but you get the idea) both parents should have a title or four....

Lana
Another reason a breeder might breed to one of their own boys or to a boy they've sold is to bring their lines back to a bitch they got from someone else. For example my Win's breeder is considering using him with her young girl in the future as she has crossed out from her OTCH gal who was Win's mom, and breeding to him would bring that back to her current line. So sometimes you breed out, and then breed back in to consolidate something. If you have access to a dog that has your lines, and the characteristics you are seeking then it makes sense to use him, just as it makes sense to look elsewhere if what you have at home cannot provide what you need.
 

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Scout was from a repeat breeding and this was because the first litter only had three puppies and the breeder was hoping for a few more to select as it was going to be the dam's last litter. I have also heard that if the litters are not a certain size that breeders can use the same stud again at no additional cost (especially for singleton litters).
 

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HUH??? , I think that is a tad harsh...we keep stud dogs to breed to our own bitches, most are either purchased from other quality breeders to compliment our programs or bred by us for a specific reason...I do seek out boys to compliment my girls best, but if I already have what I am looking for in my back yard why would I not use it :confused:

I'm not saying it's wrong to own a stud dog or use your own stud at all. IF the dog has it's clearances and has something that is going to improve the quality of the breed. I wouldn't totally write off a breeder for simply using their own stud dog but I would tend to look a bit further into them, unless I could see why they were using that stud dog. If I see a 'breeder' website who has one stud dog and five girls and all of their litters are out of that one stud dog, year after year, litter after litter and they don't seem to use any dogs outside of their backyard, I would question that. More so if that dog doesn't have any titles and isn't being used anywhere else, etc...

Lana
 

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Another reason a breeder might breed to one of their own boys or to a boy they've sold is to bring their lines back to a bitch they got from someone else. For example my Win's breeder is considering using him with her young girl in the future as she has crossed out from her OTCH gal who was Win's mom, and breeding to him would bring that back to her current line. So sometimes you breed out, and then breed back in to consolidate something. If you have access to a dog that has your lines, and the characteristics you are seeking then it makes sense to use him, just as it makes sense to look elsewhere if what you have at home cannot provide what you need.

I totally understand that too, don't get me wrong. I was talking more about the breeders where you see 3/4 litters due or on the ground all out of the same stud dog, and past litters all out of the same stud dog. Mass/random production is a bit different than linebreeding. If you look at any of the questionable breeder's websites, almost all of them have their own stud dogs that they use - why not, no questions asked and no stud fees.... no hip clearance on the stud? No problem!

Lana
 
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