Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
where the tails wag
Joined
·
13,384 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been wondering if you all find there are regional differences in scoring for obedience?

I have seen some videos lately where some of the scores are higher than I would expect, and others from different areas where the scores seem to be lower or right on what I would expect.

Just curious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hollyk

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,195 Posts
I have absolutely made the same observation.
I think maybe when you are in an area where there are several "repeat 200" club members, the judges score a bit harder. Otherwise, if they give other competitors real high scores, what's left for the almost perfect dogs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,164 Posts
I'm with Kate, I don't know that it's a regional thing so much as an individual judge thing. Some judges just don't score as tough as others, no matter where they are from. I know there are some judges I wouldn't want to say even if got a 200 from them because everyone knows they are "easy" judges (well, okay, I might mention it once or twice :p:). Other judges I am thrilled any time I can pull a 198 or better from them because I know I definately earned every single half point of that score from them.

Your good judges are going to be frequently requested across the country for judging anyway, so they will have a pretty good overall view of what is out there, not just in their area.

If you ask the majority of the competitive B handlers, they will tell you that their least favorite kind of judge to show under, (not counting ones that are just plain rude), are the ones that are super easy with the scoring. One reason being you don't know if you truly earned that score or not, and the other being if the judge is letting little things go without scoring, then it is unlikely he or she will get the placements correct.
 

·
Where The Bitches Rule
Joined
·
6,429 Posts
I agree with others that has more to do with the individual judges than regions. And if the judge is a top obedience handler they will likely be a tougher scorer than one who is not - not always but generally. There are judges in our area that are known to have a "very sharp pencil" and some that tend to use a "magic marker". ;)
 

·
Titan1
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
Oh yes.. it is the judging not the region. I also know some judges are easier on the lower classes..I guess at this point in my obedience career I just want them to get the placements right the rest is just the rest. I also know while some judges are easier marks they most times won't let go of that 200 score. I know I was curious when I got my 200 how many that judge has given.. That was his 3rd in 30+ years of judging..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,905 Posts
No obedience experience but my 2¢. It is purely subjective isn't it? I would see it in hunter classes all the time. The judge would expect good things from an elite few, and hold out until they showed. I also saw them hit hard someone for a minor mistake, because they expected perfection. That is not fair either.

I understand there are 'guidelines' about what is proper, but isn't just the judges interpretation of those guidelines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Very difficult to do comparison due to the subjective of scoring … I would hope that a judge would not be slanted, biased, or prejudiced.

I do think the system can be improved thru technology. I dislike the posting of results without an explanation. The handle has to ask the judge for the reason for deductions after the event.

It would be more transparent, if exercise scores were more detailed. My suggestion for improvement … after each dog the judge would input scores into a computer and post the results before the next dog.

I know the response … it has worked all these years so why change? Obedience needs to be more transparent, maybe like Agility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
I haven't started showing in Obedience yet but will be in the Spring (want to be ready through Utility before I show). However, based on AKC Rally Obedience I think it is the judge. I have found that judges who normally judge Obedience will judge "harder" than just Rally Obedience judges. What that means is that they judge Rally to the rules and expect you to perform the signs "correctly" and really watch for foot work and handling.

When we were doing Rally I actually preferred the "harder" judges. The scores sometimes were lower and sometimes not but at the end the Placements were accurate.
It made me feel better because easier judges would let teams get away with things that I would be amazed with and it cheapened the other scores etc.
 

·
Barley & Mira's Mom
Joined
·
3,489 Posts
I have the experience of one whole trial :p:

I was surprised how different our scores where from one day to the next. And by that I mean they were only 1.5 points different. I thought we did so so so much better the second day. I know we did better, it felt better and everyone who watched said so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sunrise

·
Titan1
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
I have the experience of one whole trial :p:

I was surprised how different our scores where from one day to the next. And by that I mean they were only 1.5 points different. I thought we did so so so much better the second day. I know we did better, it felt better and everyone who watched said so.
Which is why I am always preaching that you need to focus on how you felt about your run. You need to show because you love being your dog's partner in the ring. If you start focusing on scores you are going to loose the fun of it...

Sharon,
I too have seen some videos that surprised me with the scores..I have also sat ringside and been totally shocked at a particular person's score and wondered if they watched the same run we did from outside. I believe most judges are very fair and honest and do their very best. I want to believe that most are pretty fair but have also watched some of them discuss something and they all would have marked them different. The rules are open to some interpretations. But in their defense I have judged a fun match and when the rules state 1-3 point deduction ... who's to say who is right.... Okay off my soapbox..

Just remember to go have fun and enjoy your time in the ring!;)
 

·
Kate
Joined
·
21,691 Posts
I do think the system can be improved thru technology. I dislike the posting of results without an explanation. The handle has to ask the judge for the reason for deductions after the event.


It would be more transparent, if exercise scores were more detailed. My suggestion for improvement … after each dog the judge would input scores into a computer and post the results before the next dog.
Two problems that I can see...

It would be awesome if the judge used a blackberry or something like that to jot down notes. Specifically since some judges are more on the ball than others as far as remembering why they specifically took a point off in heeling. I've had judges GUESS at what they took points off after a big class.

The two problems that I can see right off:

*Some judges are more computer challenged than others, as are some clubs.

*Can you imagine how long it would take the judge to get through utility and Open THEN?! :uhoh: It is a big deal for each trainer getting their scores, but if you are waiting behind 30+ dogs. Eeeks.

and really watch for foot work and handling
I'm not sure if or how you get judged on footwork (unless you are showing under my instructor and she's watching to see how you line up after those about turns.... If you show under her, be aware of your straight line heeling).

I do know that I had some rally judges that deducted points every single time that leash tightened up. Just the same in regular obedience. And then others might be watching the dog and seeing how he maintains heel position. So if the dog is just a tiny bit forged or wide or behind they are busy deducting points.

I guess what I take out of that is just watch these judges or talk to people who have shown under them. Know what you have to clean up before trial time.
 

·
Barley & Mira's Mom
Joined
·
3,489 Posts
Which is why I am always preaching that you need to focus on how you felt about your run. You need to show because you love being your dog's partner in the ring. If you start focusing on scores you are going to loose the fun of it...
Trust me, I don't care about the score. My focus is totally on how a feel! :p: I want both Mira and I to have fun in the ring, that has been and will always be my goal for anything we do!

I was just commented because of the thread topic. I found it surprising how different the two judges were.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sunrise

·
where the tails wag
Joined
·
13,384 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Michelle - you are so right! It is about spending time with your dog.

I am sometimes a curious person and wonder - like right now I am wondering if entering Ms Towhee in Beginners Novice would be a positive or negative experience for her.........
 

·
Titan1
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
Michelle - you are so right! It is about spending time with your dog.

I am sometimes a curious person and wonder - like right now I am wondering if entering Ms Towhee in Beginners Novice would be a positive or negative experience for her.........
I think Rally is where I would start her.. It is fun and you have a party all the way through. What a wonderful way to start.. Then yes I would ease her way into the rings with BN..I know she is beyond that in training but I bet she could sure use the boost of confidence.Just my two cents..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sunrise

·
Titan1
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
Trust me, I don't care about the score. My focus is totally on how a feel! :p: I want both Mira and I to have fun in the ring, that has been and will always be my goal for anything we do!

I was just commented because of the thread topic. I found it surprising how different the two judges were.
Jessica, I know you don't as we have talked alot about that. I still say that the thing I love most about your pictures is the smile on YOUR face..
you guys are a fun team!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Using electronic devices would cause some problems in ring. I was thinking more about a check list for judges with point values established by AKC. Then review and transfer after the exercise. I have seen many different approaches to scoring in the ring. Some judges mark as you go, use a clicker or wait until the exercise is over. Dog should be judge to the standard.
 

·
where the tails wag
Joined
·
13,384 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I think Rally is where I would start her.. It is fun and you have a party all the way through. What a wonderful way to start.. Then yes I would ease her way into the rings with BN..I know she is beyond that in training but I bet she could sure use the boost of confidence.Just my two cents..
Yes, she is well beyond that in training - but my little social butterfly will need careful easing into competition :) She tends to believe all people need her attention - she is much better about dogs now.

And hey, from you Michelle - it's way more than 2 cents - its at least an entry fee :) Thanks
 
  • Like
Reactions: Titan1

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,905 Posts
First of all I totally agree with Michelle. The ONLY person you are competing against in the ring is 'you'. Don't worry about anyone else or your dog for that matter. Do the best you can and the cards will fall where they fall. I believed that a LOT in the horse world (and now the agility). I didn't have the money to spend on a 4-5 figure horse, let alone 6 figure yet, if I did my job, I beat them hands down. I could win a class and be frustrated by "my" performance. It was how I tried to improve. In agility I am the same way. I just want to do my best.

Indy Dan, agility can be subjective. Yes it is obvious when a bar drops but not always a contact being missed. Or even where a dog might spin on a course. There is subjectivity but less. I had a judge call a hesitation at a jump a refusal on a friend. Yes it was a loss of forward motion, but when the dog did not make another mistake, she corrected her call and took away the NQ. That is a judges decision.

In one rally trial I ran the judge was clear, if you take up the slack on your leash you will be faulted. She wanted a loose leash. Another trial the judge said if your dog puts it's butt down first on the down command, he will consider it a sit and fault the dog. I thought that was a bit much for novice rally. Oh and Teddi sits first. Always has, rarely I can get her to straight down. I am working on it but with her hips what is easier on her? Oh well. I always thought rally is more on the handler than the dog.

So now I have a question. When you guys say "I lost a point on my heel" for instance you literally go and ask the judge? You wait until the class is over and the judge remembers? I always wondered when I read these posts that say things like that.
 

·
Kate
Joined
·
21,691 Posts
So now I have a question. When you guys say "I lost a point on my heel" for instance you literally go and ask the judge? You wait until the class is over and the judge remembers? I always wondered when I read these posts that say things like that.
After the class. And pray the judge has a good memory or took notes (as opposed to just writing the deductions # in the box). Most judges that I've seen will write the deduction (1/2 point for example) in the box and scribble something shorthand next to it.

After you've shown, the judge is aware that the next person has warmed up and is waiting at the door, so you are expected to put your dog's leash on and clear the ring.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top