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Hello everyone,

I hope you can help me as I am quite worried! I've just got off the phone to the breeder of the puppy we were meant to be bringing home in 2 days time. I called him last week to verify the time we were going to collect her and asked what vets he had used for his health check on the puppies. He asked me why I wanted that information and I simply told him I wanted to make sure they were okay that's all. I asked for this because I was using this forum for advice and a few members suggested asking for this if we were worried about the breeder.

Anyway, I emailed the Veterinary Clinic and informed them of the puppy we had placed a deposit on and that we were just checking that the puppies and the parents were healthy. Nothing more, nothing less. (I did have questions about the breeder and the pedigree of the dogs but had a hunch that the vet would relay this to the breeder which would of upset him.)

So the phone call went something like this "I've just received a call from my vet saying he's received an email from you asking all sorts of questions and he's not very happy about it all! I am going to send your deposit back to you in the post as the only thing I can guarantee is that the dog will die one day and you expect more of a guarantee from me!" I tried to explain that all I had asked was what I told him I was going to- about the puppies health- and that I feel he has misunderstood my intentions.

This has really upset me as I honestly cannot see what I've done wrong. I am currently waiting for my partner to return home from work to call him back but now I have conflicting emotions on what to do. By him being so defensive about me asking simple questions, it's made me question his integrity. But at the same time, we have our hearts set on her... everything is ready for her arrival.

Another thing which worried me was that I asked for the puppies COI as the puppies only have one grandfather and he said he didn't have a clue.

Any advice would be gratefully received :)
 

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the party's crashing us
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It's called patient-doctor confidentiality. You had to know that the vet was not going to release health information about a patient/client to someone who was not related to them. If this happened to me as a breeder, I would be upset too, to know that a potential buyer mistrusted me so much as to go behind my back and talk to my doctor/vet. If you had misgivings about the breeder's activities, then don't buy a puppy from them. Best of luck on your puppy search and consider it a lesson learned.
 
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I don't know, I think calling and verifying that the puppy has seen the vet is fine. But I guess I expect health records to be provided with my puppy as proof if vaccination/worming etc so I dint know that it would occur to me to call the vet. Either way, from what you're saying (I know, 2 sides to every story and all that) but the breeders reaction seems a little extreme IMO. If you've got nothing to hide, why freak out? I respect K9 Design's opinion and I see where she's coming from, but I also trusted a breeder implicitly once. I ended up with a dog dead at 5 yrs old, another almost dying 6 days after he came home from a completely treatable illness (IF you know he's been exposed and to treat him!!). Not a complete set of clearances in the bunch (I have had 3 from this individual). I learned that trust is earned over time. I learned that I was a trusting fool, and I learned to VERIFY everything anyone says about their dogs MYSELF before blindly handing them thousands of dollars and my heart on a string. Tough lessons and I wish I wasn't such a slow learner :(.


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I think the breeder's reaction is out of line. Obviously he/she knew you were going to be contacting the vet because you asked for the contact info. Did the vet provide you with any information?
 

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goldenfan
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As a UK breeder perhaps I can explain a little more. The breeder should have shown you copies of the hip, elbow and eye certificates of both parents. You have obviously visited and seen where the puppies were being reared and how much socialisation they were getting and then you should have seen the dam and her attitude and behaviour towards both you and her puppies. I have a vet check my puppies before they go to their new homes and she will check hearts, skin weight m how they move , a basic health check. There will be no guarantee on health and this should have been explained to you in the contract. I always replace a puppy if one has gone wrong and certainly don't expect to have the other puppy back but would do if the owner wanted me too. Your puppy should be insured for 4 weeks form either Pet Plan or through the Kennel Club and I ask owners to take the puppy to their vet within 7 days for a check up and if anything is wrong I will refund the purchase price and have the puppy back
 

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goldenfan
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Regarding the COI that is easily found on the KC website of you have the registered names of both parents most goldens are in the earlY teens in the UK Annef
 

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Discussion Starter #7
K9 design- I did ask for the vet information and told the breeder that I just wanted to check that the health check results were okay. I actually phoned the vets as well and they said nothing about "patient- doctor confidentiality". Just that they needed the date the dog in question was tested on. I do not see how this is going behind the breeders back? I did ask the breeder everything I wanted to know but got told "I don't know what that is" or "I don't know, I don't have the paper work". I wanted to trust the breeder but at the same time, I also wanted to make sure I knew everything and wasn't pushing ahead blindly. I understand that it can be frustrating for a breeder if they think they're not trusted, but when they don't know/aren't willing to share all of the facts about their own dogs, then they can't expect people to just wish for the best. That isn't fair.

Dancer- I am really sorry to hear that! :( that's really unfortunate. We had heard of things like this happening to other people and wanted to do our best to avoid that happening to us. Like you say, by opening up your home to a dog, you open up your heart too and I felt it was completely normal to want all the facts. We are aware that there are no real guarantees with buying a puppy, but we at least wanted to know a bit more about her.

Aussieresc- Thank you. The breeders reaction did upset me and I also felt like it was out of line. Well, I phoned them up this morning and the lady on the phone told me that he had quite a lot of dogs and puppies that he's taken there recently so I needed to get back to her with a date that they went in for their tests. When the breeder phoned, he was quite clearly angry and like I said, told me that he wasn't going to sell me the puppy anymore so I didn't feel as though I could even ask that. His reaction and attitude toward a simple question has really put me off getting the puppy from him.

Thank you for all of your opinions :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you Annef- we thought this was the case with all the checks etc but we did not see the parents certificates and when we asked we were told that her Kennel Club papers would be given to us when we collected her.. we thought this was a bit odd as we didn't think it answered our question but being 1st time dog owners, we thought this was a normal response? We are aware there are no guarantees, we just wanted to know all of the facts. Also, your dogs are absolutely gorgeous!
 

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Noreaster
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" I did ask the breeder everything I wanted to know but got told "I don't know what that is" or "I don't know, I don't have the paper work". I wanted to trust the breeder but at the same time, I also wanted to make sure I knew everything and wasn't pushing ahead blindly. I understand that it can be frustrating for a breeder if they think they're not trusted, but when they don't know/aren't willing to share all of the facts about their own dogs, then they can't expect people to just wish for the best. "

This. Honestly, given his reaction to what I'm assuming are fairly basic questions, I would have been seriously re-evaluating whether I wanted a puppy from him regardless.

I've learned a great deal from this site and I'm a former vet tech, but I am still 100% certain that good Golden breeders, the ones I would want to have a relationship with, know much more than I do about health in this breed and are not only willing to have those conversations but would be happy to, because it indicates that an owner is thinking through this commitment thoroughly.

I know first-hand how disappointing it is to have your heart set on getting a puppy and then not having it happen, but you may be much better off. I'll be curious to hear what others in the UK have to say, as well.
 

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Theo's mom :)
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It's not odd at all. If the breeder is acting in such a defensive way about the sire & dam's health clearances and the puppies' health, something probably isn't right. Reputable breeders will provide you with the parents' certificates when you ask for them. Period.

This is why members on this board advise people who are looking for a Golden puppy to never go and meet the puppies before seeing health clearances and interviewing the breeder. It's easy to get distracted by the cuteness overload and disregard the breeder's less-than-perfect attitude or lack of health certificates.
 

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Oh no, sorry to hear this :-( It sounds like the breeder is totally over reacting, or possibly has something to hide! Our breeder was very open and honest about hips scores and how the vet check went etc I would be interested to hear an update from you later.....I hope everything works out for you and your pup.

I see you are from Lincolnshire - we are too! We got Teddy from Grantham....I'm hoping it's not the same breeder!!!!
 

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where the tails wag
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Here where I am in the US, it is up to the new owner to have the puppy checked within 72 hours by their own vet bringing the puppy's vaccination and worming schedule.

With my breeder(s), vet certificates are normally only provided when a puppy is being flown - although all the puppies have received a thorough vet check before the puppy testing at 7 weeks and before which puppy is chosen to go home with who. Puppies with early potential health problems would not be sold but rather held back or placed. Health clearances for the parents are provided as part of the puppy kit in addition to being available online.

I personally would not ask a breeder's vet this information - it would violate client - doctor privilege and does seem to imply a lack of trust in your chosen breeder.
 

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goldenfan
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If it is of any help I do know of an 7 to 8 week old bitch puppy available with all the health checks done. I also know of another bitch in whelp with a reputable breeder in Suffolk. My email address is [email protected] if I can be of any more help to you. Annef
 
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