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Earl's Mom
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Can anyone give me some info on how and or if I need to get Earl's hips "certified". He is registered, and We live in South TX and am looking for any assistance in going about the process. I ran into a female goldie and they inquiered about Earl's hips. I didn't know this certification :help!: is a prerequisite to breeding. Is this standard practice? I have no desire to show Earl or anything so I am not sure if this is even necessary. Help!
 

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Yes, if he is going to be used for breeding, then you need to x-ray his hips and elbows once he is 2 years of age. These will be taken by a vet and sent to OFA for a rating.

His heart needs to be cleared by a veterinary cardiologist, assuming he is at least 12 months old.

His eyes need to be cleared annually by a veterinary opthamologist.

Clearances have nothing to with showing. They are all about producing the healthiest puppies possible, and trying to avoid the heartbreak of a puppy that has to be put to sleep, or drops dead from a heart problem, etc.

You really should have clearance information on as many of Earl's relatives as you can, as well. This will give you a better idea of any weaknesses in his backgound. Sometimes a dog with Good hips will produce bad hips consistently. Often you will find that there are clearances missing on some ancestors or 6hat some of the ancestors did not pass all of their clearance and that is why you are seeing the bad hips, or hearts, etc.

And of course, the bitch he is being bred to should have all these clearances as well.

In addition, especially considering you live in Texas, both he and the bitch will need a brucellosis test. This is basically a test for doggy STD's, which can cause miscarriages and illness.
 

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Excellent post Linda. These tests are not required per se, but anyone with a conscience would do them before breeding.
 

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You know I am not a big believer that the certifications are the end all be all that some (not all) breeders make them out to be. I would prefer they find a DNA test for these problems but I am not even sure they are working on it. However the x-ray at this time is the best there is to at least help identify potential problems and in reality the cost is minimal. I know at this time I am not even sure I will use my girl as a breeding animal and she has already had her hart prelims done at 7 months. If nothing more then to set my mind at easy that there are no problems. Heck if I was not already taking 2 dogs to the dogs show this weekend I would take my salukie and have her checked and she has been spayed since she was a pup. I just would like to have her checked and I will probable take her to one of the local shows next summer and have her checked.

If nothing eals it is just a good way to know where you stand if something may come up in the future.

Heidi
 

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Earl's Mom
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Info

Thank you all for the info this helps so I will not be breeding bad pups. It would be a crime on my part if I didn't do whats necessary to preserve the breed. Earl and I thank you!!
 

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There will never be a DNA test for these sorts of problem. When you mix the DNA of two animals, the possible resulting combinations are infinite in number. In other words, no one can predict the results. That is why you can have one dog in a litter that has bad hips, while others do not.

The point of these tests, is to minimize the quantity of bad results, not eliminate them. In the end, if a dog with dysplasia results from breeding two dogs with good hips, chances are the dysplasia will be mild and non-symptomatic.
 

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There will never be a DNA test for these sorts of problem. When you mix the DNA of two animals, the possible resulting combinations are infinite in number. In other words, no one can predict the results. That is why you can have one dog in a litter that has bad hips, while others do not.

The point of these tests, is to minimize the quantity of bad results, not eliminate them. In the end, if a dog with dysplasia results from breeding two dogs with good hips, chances are the dysplasia will be mild and non-symptomatic.

By saying that then it would reason that it is not 100% gentic or there are so many variables that come into play. B/C once you have a DNA test and find the gene/s responsible for the defect then if the dog/animal is not a carrier then their offspring would not be affected. Depending on how many genes there would be it would take some time perhaps to track but if it is 100% genetic it could be done. They have a DNA test for 5-6 gentic disoreders in horses. So it can be done. Just really depends on how complext it is and if anyone really want to try and find it. Vets and OFA make $$ on these x rays and if you came up with a DNA test it would rule out the defect in the next generation or prodice the likly hood on a give cross.

Heidi
 

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By saying that then it would reason that it is not 100% gentic or there are so many variables that come into play. B/C once you have a DNA test and find the gene/s responsible for the defect then if the dog/animal is not a carrier then their offspring would not be affected. Depending on how many genes there would be it would take some time perhaps to track but if it is 100% genetic it could be done. They have a DNA test for 5-6 gentic disoreders in horses. So it can be done. Just really depends on how complext it is and if anyone really want to try and find it. Vets and OFA make $$ on these x rays and if you came up with a DNA test it would rule out the defect in the next generation or prodice the likly hood on a give cross.

Heidi
The problem is with HD, is that it is not caused by one gene, in the classic way that a genetic disease is. Something like sickle cell (for example) is caused by a specific genetic defect. HD is a product of chance, or normal variations. Much like your face or sex may be completely different then your sibling's, even though your basic genetic make up is the same.
 

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I understand what you are saying. For me at least I look at it as the conformation of the dog that changes the way the hips come togather and function along with other factors after they are born. I agree that the x ray is a good way to look at this part of the dogs conformation. If you breed conformationally correct dogs with good bone structure which is what the x rays are really looking at then yes your chances of getting a good dog with little to no chance of HD is good. However do you not think that diet and nutirtion along with a proper exersize regamine as a young dog plays into this also??

I know in horses that a horse with a certian type of conformation like what you see in halter horses would not hold up in a performance event like reining. It would be interesting to see if anyone has looked in to nutrition diet and exersize along with x rays at several differnt ages including when they are young pups to see what may or may not change and when.

Heidi
 

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Hip dysplasia is not fully understood yet, genetically. As Vern said, there are so many variables that lead to it-a dog can be subluxed, have a shallow acetabulum, a malformed head, etc. and each of these are considered hip dysplasia. In addition, there is now felt to be a strong enviromental component as well.

Another one that is difficult is SAS-subvalvular aortic stenosis. It is now thought to be a dominant gene with incomplete penetrance. So, a dog might have it and express it physically, a dog might have it and not express it physically, and a dog might be a carrier. Basically, this means that if you have not done your homework (and unfortunately sometimes when you have), it can pop up in a dog or a litter.

I remember one breeding I wanted to do so badly. The sire was a beautiful dog, but went back in 5 generations to a dog well known to have produced SAS. I researched and in this particular off shoot, I did not hear of any problems. My line did not have this issue, only one part of the male's pedigree went back to this dog, so I thought I was safe. Not so-I ended up with a puppy-pick male of course-with very mild SAS. When that happened, my friends who had done similar breedings immediately took all of their dogs in-every one of them had at least one dog with SAS. Thankfully, no more than a Grade 2 for the worst, but a terrible experience anyway. We cried all the way home-both times.

My entire litter (and the litters of my friends) was spayed/neutered and I have never ever gone back to anything that goes back to that dog. I have had to pass up some gorgeous dogs, but it is just not worth it to me. It's a dominant that acts like a recessive, and that makes it very hard to eliminate.

I too am anxiously awaiting better predictors of these issues, but in the meantime, this is the best we have.
 

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Earl's Mom
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Thanks, he's my 'bubba' and I get to say "git in the truuck Earl" at least twice a day when I take and pick up the wee one from school. Would not trade him for the world!
 

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If you could e mail me at [email protected] the name if the line for that. I am looking for anouther show prospect and am in the looking stage and gathering info like that so I can pick the best posible in many ways. This type of info is readally available on horses. Heck it has it on the horses papers when they are reg. with AQHA. Wish they did the same with dogs and made all this info available through AKC. Would make life so much easyer in the long run and make buying and breeding desitions much eayer.

Heidi
 

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He is a beautiful dog. Great picture and I would frame it. Goodlookin dog.
 
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