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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I'm new here, but have been reading as much as I can about GR puppies and what to expect. My husband and I purchased a puppy a week ago from a trainer / breeder. With the breeder's recommendations, we left our puppy, Codie there for two weeks of training. Also giving us time to get the supplies and the house ready.
So, a bit of background for my questions: the breeder I bought my puppy from was not the owner or breeder of Codie. His friend owned the puppies, and out of the 7, 5 of them went to show homes. (I bought one of the "pet" home ones.) My breeder/ trainer guy had just picked up the two puppies from his friend when we arrived to look at the puppies. Based upon the fact that we wanted a lighter coat color, he picked out Codie for us. Not knowing much about purebred dogs, titles and lineage and such, I didn't care because I just wanted a good family dog- provided the parents/ grandparents had good health clearances.
I went yesterday to visit my puppy (one week left) and the breeder was going on and on about how beautiful of a dog he is, and how he should be shown. He said he kind of wished he had sold us the other puppy so he could show ours instead. He had asked if we wouldn't mind him showing our dog, and if we wouldn't neuter him so he could also breed him. I got the impression he would have us take home the other puppy if we said no. I told him I didn't really mind, but I know nothing about this stuff. I'm a stay at home mom with two little kids and don't have that much "free" time. The trainer said he'll groom and show Codie for us.
Ok, so, what do you think? Is this a weird situation that I should be cautious about? If I agree to him becoming a show dog, what should I expect? What if I don't want to do this, can he really trade my puppy for the other one (I did already sign a purchase agreement)
 

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I will leave for some one more experienced in this area.

I do want to wish you good luck with your pup. :D
 

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It seems a little sketchy to me, because its pretty unlikely that 6 out of 7 puppies in the litter are going to be top show prospects. I know the litter I got my boy from, there were 8 puppies and 5 achieved their Canadian champions (although a 6th one was on her way before passing of GDV). But that is a Canadian champion, much different than an American champion, where a significant investment is required for any dog to achieve a champion. Do you mind sharing the pedigree? I would recommend getting everything in writing, as well as if they really want it as a show dog, I would want him to finish his champion before they breed him...Also if you agree to this, expect to have you boy away for months on end. (if the breeder sends their dogs out to handlers).
 

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There are a couple of "red flags" here with the situation. So this guy isn't the actual breeder so that makes him a "broker". Did he buy the puppy from his friend and resell him to you? Reputable breeders don't do that. Also I find it a little strange that 5 out of 7 puppies were sold as show dogs. Usually you get 1 or 2 really nice show quality puppies from a litter, I guess depending on the pedigree you could get more. Also selecting a puppy on color alone is not a good decision. Most breeders select the right puppy for a family based on what type of puppy the family is looking for. For instance a more laid back type or a high energy type to compete with etc. Color should be the last thing looked at.
Once you have the puppy in your possession the guy really can't tell you what to do with the puppy as long as the contract you originally signed doesn't change. Possession is 9/10ths of the law :)
Don't let this guy pressure you into something that you don't want or understand.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the quick replies! So, yes, I guess this guy is a broker. He picked the puppy for us based upon coat color because he had the puppies for maybe an hour before we showed up. Thankfully, he is the calmer one of the two, now that we have spent time there. He did say for the showing, that we would bring our dog to him on like a Thursday, and he'd groom him and prep him for a Sat or Sun show, the he'd come home. I can't remember the pups mom's name, but the dad is Ryder from Confetti. The mom's call name is Easy.
I don't want my dog gone for months...
Thanks for giving me info on this, as I wasn't planning on having a show dog and never researched it.
 

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There is a breeder near me who changes the agreement at the last minute....decides a pup is show quality to drive the price up. What good golden breeder would allow their dog to be sold thru a broker. And if the pup is eight weeks, it should be with you .... a lot of this seems sketchy to me. As for showing, it is very expensive in the AKC world. I would never ask someone to do it unless it was all decided beforehand.
 

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I am not sure which Easy is the mother, but the father is very well known! If it is something you would be interested in, go for it. A young puppy can show lots of promise, but Goldens are one of the toughest breeds to finish in the US. A lovely young puppy just may not make it as an adult so it may never come to pass.

It sounds like almost a ring side pick up, so your boy would not be gone for months at a time, Maybe a week or so at the most, maybe just a day or two.

If you do decide to try it, you need to clearly understand all the costs associated with this-grooming, handling, transportation, room and board. Is he willing to do all of this in exchange for breeding rights? Would he want his name on the puppy as a co-owner? Is he agreeable that your boy would not be bred before two and getting all of his clearances, and ensuring that the girls he is bred to, have the same?

Just some things to think about. I do enjoy showing, and seeing my guys in the ring is always a big thrill. Most of my friends came through my involvement in dogs :)

If you do this, you need to understand the expectations for coat care, weight and grooming. This is where I always ran into trouble when showing a family pet. It has been done though-Ch. Twin Beau D's High Speed Chase was purchased as a pet by a policeman. When he was 18 months old, he went back to his breeder for boarding. He was gorgeous, she asked to show him and his owner agreed. Chase had a wonderful career and made quite an impression in the Golden world :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What things should I ask when I go to pick up my puppy? What should I have the broker put in writing? again, I know nothing about this stuff, even the most basic questions will be helpful to me. I just dont want to get myself into something I'm not ready for. I also dont want to get screwed or lose this puppy.
 

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What kind of contract do you have with the breeder? That would be separate from any agreement you would have with the handler/trainer. If the puppy is being sold on a Limited Registration, the breeder would have to lift that before the pup could be shown. Have you spoken to the breeder about this? How experienced is this breeder and how experienced is the handler?

You could just tell him you are interested but need more details before you decide. What about show training-when and who would be responsible? What would the fees be for showing, grooming, training, other expenses? Who is expected to pay show entries (NOT cheap)-I would expect that would be you.

What involvement does he expect to have with the puppy on a regular basis?

If the agreement is just going to be regarding showing, you don't have to worry about that for awhile. Some shows have the baby puppy classes, but most don't, so the earliest he could be shown would be 6 months. If you are still interested, and he is still interested, you can nail things down then (this is assuming your contract is with the breeder and this person is in no way involved with your purchase).

Bottom line is-you don't HAVE to do this with your puppy. And even if you decide it might be fun, it may not work out. Take your time-ask the trainer if you can go to some shows and watch him, and get an idea of what is involved before you make a decision.

I love dog shows and showing, but it is not for everybody. It is expensive, and can be frustrating too :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you Tahnee! He did mention lifting the limited registration, but again, I need to learn more about what that means. He also mentioned training when we board the dog there (and really, I'm not sure if we would need to board our dog anytime soon - just one vacation planned in August next year).
Being hat this is a family pet, I don't want this to be a full time thing. I was thinking that if he wanted to "borrow" our dog for a weekend every once I awhile to show him, I'd be okay with that. I don't want to pay extra for all that showing stuff... Would it be weird to ask him to pay for it? Although I suppose if he were to pay for all that showing stuff, he'd probably want more control over the dog, and how much time the dog would spend away from home.
I'm starting to think this is not for us...
I wonder how he'll react when I say no thanks. I've already bonded to this little guy, and he'll have been there for two weeks of training that we've paid for already. Never mind that our contract is for him- not his brother.
 

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There are so so may red flags. Just like the others have mentioned. I as a reputable show breeder would never have someone else home my puppies, in fact most of my puppies are spoken for long before a breeding takes please. I would love to see the pedigree on the puppy, that can tell you a lot. This guy is more than likely blowing smoke and wants to use your boy at stud for no cost in the future.

Question.... Have you seen all of the recommend Tests for our breed set forth by GRCA if not I would run as far and and fast as I could to a reputable breeder. Just sayen sound funny to me.
 

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I actually think I know what litter this is and the person who I think is involved is not a puppy broker. The dam is EZ (Smuggler x Leo) and the sire is Ryder, I was told they bred her to Ryder so this makes sense timing wise. She's a very lovely girl, is finished and was line-bred on Hobo, so I have no doubt that these puppies could be beautiful.

I would just make sure the breeder is on board with you showing this puppy, I'm sure he would speak to them, but ultimately it's the breeder's decision to make if the dog has full or limited registration, so I would speak directly to the Nobles about it if I were you.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes, Goldenjack, Codie is one of those puppies. I'm so happy you wrote in, because I never got a feeling that this was a scetchy deal, I just needed more info on what they are asking us to do. I don't know anything about this showing idea, so I just want as much info on all this before I go to pick him up on Sunday so I can ask all the right questions. I guess now my main concern would the costs of all this, and how much time he'd be away from home. Just need to explain to the kids why Codie would be leaving every once in awhile. I'll make sure to ask the trainer about the breeder's thought on all this too.
Thanks!
 

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I think it depends on you and what YOU want. Don't be strong armed into showing the dog if you are not interested. There are several other puppies in the litter being shown-- chances are if there is another male being shown in the area, there will also be competition for stud services with two dogs with the exact same pedigree.

Having a show dog means nightly brushings, weekly or bi-weekly nail trimmings, weekly bathing and blow drying, etc. You need to keep the dog in good physical shape and in coat. This more likely than not, would be your responsibility as it would be an inconvenience to the handler/breeder to come and do these things for you. You also need to be aware that a conformation dog is intact, can you deal with an intact male? In adolescence, they can be a challenge! If you agree to let the dog be shown, who pays entry fees? Who pays travel expenses? Who gets the stud fees if he is bred in the future? Who determines to which bitches he is bred? Do you get a say if you object to the breeding? What if the dog doesn't pass any of his clearances? Who pays for the clearances to be done? Will you own him or co-own him? What are the terms of the agreement? When do you get full ownership; only if he doesn't finish? Lots to think about!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you Carolina. That was very helpful! It's looking more and more like this isn't for me.
Can anyone reccomend a good web site on the whole business of show dogs so I can get myself more familiar?
 

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I am way too selfish to be able to share my dog with someone else, even if they have good intentions. I couldn't imagine my Bella spending that much time with someone else and then having them take her from me, even only for short periods of time.
 

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That would be a fabulous litter! I am jealous :-( Hehe! Showing takes a lot of hard work!! Just trying to give u a quote on price as it can very. My bitch was out for 3 weekends (10) shows and my cost was $ 1400. If u do ring side pick up, it would not be as much. But, I would just talk to the breeder. Also, can u possibly find someone to evaluate this puppy. Another view?
 
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That would be a fabulous litter! I am jealous :-( Hehe! Showing takes a lot of hard work!! Just trying to give u a quote on price as it can very. My bitch was out for 3 weekends (10) shows and my cost was $ 1400. If u do ring side pick up, it would not be as much. But, I would just talk to the breeder. Also, can u possibly find someone to evaluate this puppy. Another view?
I wish I was qualified to evaluate puppies because this puppy is like 10 minutes from me right now! lol.

And yes, showing is expensive. And sometimes frustrating. And sometimes awesome. You really have to love it to do it (which I do :) ) Personally, I would be very careful letting someone show my dog for free no matter who it is...it can get very messy and complicated. I've only been doing this a short time and I've heard of a number of co-owns/relationships gone awry when things were done for "free."
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Golden jack, since you are nearby, are there any dog "playgroups" that you know of around here? I'm actually in Rancho PQ, but I want my puppy to be able to play with other dogs. I'm going to assume these paid for playgroups are okay for puppy's as long as they have been vaccinated... Or maybe any other fun things around here to do with my puppy?
Thanks again for all of everyone's help!
 
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