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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, sorry about the two new threads in a row but while posting the first I thought of a very disturbing incident I learned of yesterday while walking the girls in a park we drive them to by the river. We met a lady who had a five year old boy and a one year old boy. She told us that the five year old has been attacked three times by a neighbour's pit bull. The last time the pit bull tore a large gash in her boy's chest and it nearly killed him. The lady was reluctant to let our girls get next to him because he is understandably fearful of other dogs. I felt terrible for her - she said the neighbours never apologized for opening the door and letting the dog out nor did they offer to pay any vet bills which were substantial.

This is one of my worst fears as I walk the girls around our neighbourhood but for a year we have had no problems with aggressive dogs so I've been lulled into a sense of false security. I tell this story for anyone who has the same sense of false security. I was walking the girls by a lake one day, looking down at the girls and before I knew it there were two pit bulls that had run across the street - thankfully they were just very aggressively checking out my girls but had their mom not run over to get them and apologize I am not certain they would not have become aggressive. I have always thought (when I was very strong) that I could handle a situation like that by punching or choking the aggressor but these pit bulls were so strong and muscular, I am no match for them and I believe I have underestimated their strength. I am a retired police officer and have what's known as an "asp" a collapsable steel rod that I carry with me sometimes and I'v e always felt I could strike the aggressive dog on the spine if necessary but fear by then it would be too late - and with two girls wrapping their leashes around my legs if an attack occurred, I don't know how I could protect them. After hearing that story I am thinking of carrying my fire arm with me. My wife mentioned a stun gun but I don't know if that would work so well on an aggressive dog. Has anyone given this situation any thought?
 

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Unfortunately, we have had to also give this a lot of thought. We have many pits in our neighborhood. These owners are not responsible owners like the pit owners that are GRF members. These owners just let their intact, untrained, unsocialized dogs run free! Rusty has been attacked 4 times by young in tact males. I am glad these dogs were young and unseasoned.. as they listened to my husband.. who would have reamed them a new one had they not..

The thing about pits is their tenacity.. Once they latch on to something ( or someone ) you would have to pretty much do great bodily harm to get them to let go.. With a stun gun you have to be so close.. A hand gun ( with a permit of course ) comes with more of risk for you getting into legal trouble.. Proving what harm the dog meant, etc. A cattle prod makes a pit bull angry. The catch poles the dog catchers use are effective, but cumbersome and you must have one per dog and then what to you do with them?

Sooo... we decided to carry Law enforcement strength pepper spray. It contains CS Military tear gas, red pepper spray and a UV dye.. We bought it at a local gun store. No permit required. Of course you must pay attention to the wind, etc. But we are hoping if we got the dog in the face we could get away.. and would use it before the bite.. so we didn't have to try to make it let go.

SO sad we have to worry about this.. I know some people don't understand.. as most dogs are friendly.. We walk with more confidence and pray we never need to use the spray.. On human or animal!

We do have leash laws in our county.. but these owners somehow get away with letting the dogs run. I call and will report incidents, the dog goes away for a few days, then reappears.. rotten as ever! Wishing you luck in your situation,
Nancy
 

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I actually came across this situation years ago. I was walking a friend's German Shepherd and a pit bull came running up to us. Thankfully the dogs did not fight but I brought the dog back home (he kept following us) and put him in the back yard... never once touched him, but he wouldn't go away. We called Animal Control and I was thinking he might be tame... boy am I glad I didn't try to touch him cause the minute the Animal Control officer got the catch pole around his neck, he was vicious.

In our neighborhood where we are, people are fairly good owners that I've noticed. I haven't seen any pit bulls. I have seen some American Bulldogs and other hardy breeds but the ones I've seen have been well socialized. Its stories like that which make me nervous about walking my own two dogs.
 

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Angel Gage's Grandma
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We don't have loose dogs in our neighborhood, and no pit bulls that I have seen. There are a couple of bulldogs and a white boxer, but they're well-behaved and friendly. I walk my girls at 5 a.m., when there's almost nobody around, so if we do encounter a vicious dog, we'll be in big trouble. I do have pepper spray in one coat pocket, however.
 

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The Ariz. Retriever Crew
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Blame the owners NOT The Breed!

I have rescued many pits and yes alot of them have had MAJOR aggression issues that we have helped change in them. From food aggression to dog fighting aggression. It does take time to change the behavior so don't think it is an easy fix.

I am sorry you now have to worry when you go for walks, that is not fair to anyone!
I would carry the Pepper spray like suggested above, you don't need any law problems brought upon you with carrying a gun.

Be Safe!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You are correct when you say it's the owners. For the most part people who own this breed of dog - in my experience - like to make the dog an extension of their own aggression and are not responsible pet owners. I was extremely lucky because the male owner had to come over and grab one of the p.b. to drag him across the street leading me to believe they may have become aggressive. I do have a fire arms permit as a retired law enforcement officer but I would not ever want to take such drastic measures, however; to protect my girls I would in a heart beat do what I needed to, then deal with the aftermath. I would go so far as to try and bring their aggression onto me and let my girls go to run home. I have used pepper spray on duty with an aggressive dog and honestly, it didn't really have much effect on them. Seems when they get into that attack mode it takes a lot to stop them. It's a quagmire because in my case it was a lucky thing they were on me before I could do anything - if I'd seen them coming I would have probably kicked at them or something that may have triggered aggression but then if they are dogs that would not do harm and you harm them you have that mess to deal with as well as your own feelings. As the attorneys like to say "it's a slippery slope." I would not rely on the pepper spray alone though, those of you who carry it. Ah ha, I just came up with a solution but I'll keep it to myself. thanks all
 

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If I had a conceal carry license, I would have no problem carrying my gun on walks with me if it meant I was able to defend myself or my dogs against an attacking dog (or person, for that matter..)
 

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My wife mentioned a stun gun but I don't know if that would work so well on an aggressive dog. Has anyone given this situation any thought?
Many years ago we had a adjoining neighborhood lady walk her pit bull through our neighborhood. This pit bull was much too strong for the lady and the pit would routinely break lead. At one point the pit mauled a tiny little dog in the subdivision and at another point he chased a mother and child up a tree. Many of the neighbors took bats with them whenever they went outside. I got a hand held stun gun that wasn't too powerful to keep in my pocket "just in case". My golden at the time was a very meek non-assertive type that had no idea how to bite back. Fortunately I never had to use the stun gun on the pit. I don't thnk it would work very well with such an agressive dog. Unfortunately I did have to use it against another loose golden (intact male), a very annoying sheltie dog and two lab mixes the owner let run loose and claimed were friendly--they weren't. It worked but you have to get up very close to the dog and that was scary. I used it to scare other loose dogs away by setting it off in the air as a warning "shot" and the noise did the trick in most cases, although it scared my dog as well. Contact with the gun didn't injure the dogs because the voltage was very low but they did eventually run away from us. I hated doing it but I will do anything to protect my dogs, who are on leash and obeying the law. I eventually stopped bringing it with me. As far as the pit bull lady, her dog broke lead again in my neighborhood and harmed another dog. The police were called and animal control got involved (again) and she stopped walking the dog into our neighborhood. She moved a year or so later and is probably tormenting some other poor neighborhood.

Personally I don't think it would be safe for me to carry a concealed weapon on a walk because I would be tempted to shoot out the tires of cars who try to mow me down in marked crosswalks along my walking route or I might miss and hurt my own animal. In the cases I did use the stun gun physically on an attacking dog I had to work hard to fix it on the dog because the dogs were constantly moving around in circles. I cannot imagine trying to line up a shot in that situation, given all the movement. Plus discharging a weapon like that on a street requires explanation with authorities because someone will call and report gunshots.

While not a "weapon" I do carry a whistle to use to draw attention to my self/situation if needed. It probably would not scare an attacking dog but might help to avert a coyote or bobcat from attacking, hopefully! One time while walking in the dark I had a dog charge me only to stop when confronted with the bright LED lights of my handheld flashlight.
 

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We were in a public park near our house a couple of months ago where many people will let their dogs off-leash. Tucker was leashed and had a prong collar on and a yellow lab rushed over and attacked him. The owner had a shock collar on the dog - I'm not sure if he had the controller or not. The lab didn't seem to get shocked at all. Tucker was only about 7 months and he is very submissive so he just rolled on his back. I grabbed the lab's collar and yanked him back until the owner took him. He just said he was being protective! He didn't apologize or anything. I left the park since I was shook up and went home. After I was so angry! Fortunately Tucker was fine, but who knows what could have happened. It's very sad that people with agressive dogs think they can just let them be free. I was also wondering what to bring with in case something like this happened again.

I have also experienced agressive dogs at the off leash dog park which is scary. I want to keep him socialized with other dogs, which he loves, but now worry about him getting hurt there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
lol - I get so angry when a vehicle passes me in a 30 mph zone @ 45 or 50 mph and comes very close. You are right, I would be tempted to take a shot @ their tires. So I was right about the stun gun. Maybe they make one that has a high voltage. The one I used as a police officer should take a dog down but that shoots a projectile and they are very expensive. We were taking the girls to the dog park near by but often we went when there were not many people there. It's a small park and the last time we went there were about 25 dogs, most of them very large. Our girls were very intimidated and the larger dogs became a pack running by our dogs knocking them down and rough housing. KD can not put up with much of that and she got this look in her eyes and began to show her teeth....we had to leave and never went back...all the while the owners were standing in a corner smoking and chatting, not paying attention to their crazy dogs. Missmarstar, you really should get some protection. Not only for your golden but for you. Crime was my business for over 30 years and I pay attention to the latest crime stats - because of the financial situation in the US, crime (at least here in Fl) has gone up at an alarming pace. Two elderly ladies around the Orlando area were shot last week and robbed. It's crazy, protect yourself, you can get a carry permit.
 

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In the Moment
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Dallas has a serious problem with loose, aggressive dogs... many are pits or pit mixes. We had the mounted police exercising the horses in our park a few weeks ago and I was talking with one of the officers about this issue. He said even his horse has been attacked by loose pits. Think of the mentality there..... He also said they WILL shoot aggressive dogs. He urged us to call 911 if we have problems with stray, aggressive dogs. It is REALLY scary to fear for your dogs when you are out doing nothing but taking a walk. I now walk with a 3 iron as a security blanket.
 

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I get so angry when a vehicle passes me in a 30 mph zone @ 45 or 50 mph and comes very close
In January I had a guy going at least 60 in a 30 mph zone come within an inch of my foot while I was in a cross hatched and well-lighted crosswalk. It is a 4 lane road with a protected turn lane (so it's really 5 lanes) and I was already through 3 lanes when he came by out of nowhere and made contact with my flashlight. He was upset about HIS car. No telling how he would have reacted had he actually hit me because I would have really messed his bumper and hood on my way to being thrown a few hundred feet. He was screaming at the ding in his car (like I said, he was really close and dang it that flashlight is metal!!) when I reached out to call 911 with my cell, knowing the substation was only a block away when he suddenly realized his mistake-- he was speeding and violated state law protecting pedestrians in crosswalks. He jumped in his car and raced away. My guess is he had outstanding warrants even though he claimed he was an attorney and was going to get me! Thank goodness my spouse had the dogs out of this guy's line of fire with his deadly weapon!

I am fortunate to live in a walker friendly neighborhood (except for the cars speeding and not yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks) and from time to time people in cars will stop to let me know there is a loose dog out so I can turn around and go elsewhere. We've also been stopped by people in cars looking for their loose dogs. When they tell me their dogs will be "attracted" to my dogs I ask where they live so I can send them my vet bills should their dog get too aggressive with mine. They really don't appreciate it but honestly, they need to be more responsible and I don't appreciate being their dog's attention magnet!

Then we have a jerk who is a heart attack survivor who "walks" his dog by letting it loose and driving behind it while the dog runs in yards (soiling them of course) around the block. If you ask me, the jerk could use a few laps himself!

Betty, I sure wish we could convince our city leadership to stop spending hundreds of millions on silly commercial projects and get down to basics of protecting the citizens and beefing up Animal Control enforcement! I plan to vote my current city council representative out next month because he supports that stupid downtown hotel project over safer streets and more police/fire. I invited my current representative to come walk the streets with me one morning to see what bad shape they are in and he declined.
 

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I personally have encountered a neighbors vicious GSD who ran into our yard as I was exiting my car with Amber(door was closed) and it began attacking both of us. By the time I made my way around to my door and retrieved my sidearm(I have a CCP permit due to my job) it luckily ran away when I took aim and was about to remove the safety. Three days later the neighbors other GSD attacked us in the street! Luckily Amber was not traumatized thank god and no serious damages were done, and never once did they appologize. FOUR weeks after that their puntable dog came running out as they opened the door and ran at us trying to bite amber as well! I now carry a can of pepper GEL on my lead when in public areas AND I have one of my sidearms concealed on my person. There will NOT be a fourth attack without me ending it.Period. I despise having to be like that, but after three attacks I am simply not oging to allow someone elses stupidity and lack of training and common sense ruin my dog or kill her. I personally beleive thjat if you are legally allowed to have a CCP and can carry concealed without a problem, do so. It's your right as a citizen.
 

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Personally I don't blame the owners anymore (what good does that do?). And I don't blame the breed. I do blame the lack of enforcement by animal control. I have seen them give problem pit/pit mixes second and third chances. And then I've had close calls afterwards. And now Lucky barely gets walked.

The best thing we can do is calling animal control and threatening a suit if that particular dog we complain about maims or kills our pets or loved ones. From now on I take documented notes, with names, dates and times. Most tragic incidents happen after multiple calls to animal control.
 

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Missmarstar, you really should get some protection. Not only for your golden but for you. Crime was my business for over 30 years and I pay attention to the latest crime stats - because of the financial situation in the US, crime (at least here in Fl) has gone up at an alarming pace. Two elderly ladies around the Orlando area were shot last week and robbed. It's crazy, protect yourself, you can get a carry permit.
Alan
As a retired police officer I'm sure that you have a much better understanding of the realities of carrying a handgun than most civilians.

May I ask, how many times did you actually draw your weapon while on duty?
Did you ever fire a round?
Did you ever get into a situation where you had to shoot someone?

This isn't a rhetorical question--I'm really asking. My guess is that the number would be surprisingly small to most civilians whose primary exposure to police work is the television.

I'm not trying to start a philosophical discussion, but a practical one. It seems to me that if you've got a couple of angry pit bulls charging you or your dog there's a very good chance you'll end up shooting your own dog, an innocent bystander, or maybe even yourself.

I would think the situation would be even worse if the aggressor was human, because he/she would be actively trying to grab the gun. It seems to me that if you're 100 percent confident in your ability to fight off any attacker who trying to take your gun and shoot you with it, then you probably don't need a gun in the first place.

Seems to me that a sub lethal response--pepper spray, a taser, a whistle--is a better alternative.
best
allen
 

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I blame the irresponsible owners for the fact that they do not train and socialize their dogs. What is worse, many do not think litters are a hassle and let their dogs breed anytime/anyplace. What worries me most is pack of dogs...each day I see more and more and it is frustrating to even try to walk. All abandoned, probably since puppyhood. To make matters worse, there are "dog lovers" that protest each time aggressive dogs or any dogs are taken by city pounds. My message to them" if you really love them, keep them inside! I don't let my dog roam the streets!"

I have to consider seriously getting some protection. No guns allowed here, but I hope I can find some pepper spray or something that might keep a dog away for a while. But I wish I had a gun when a pack of strays viciously jumped up trying to grab Emma from my arms. She was just a very young puppy then, and I was actually scared of the fact that this incident might trigger dog fear in her. Luckily I saw them running to attack her and grabbed her in my arms, keeping her as high as I could.


Even thinking about that particular incident makes me terribly angry at so many stupid and irresponsible people. I never blame the dogs - they live a harsh life and it is not their fault.

PS: we take our walks on selected alleys where the strays know us. Also, in the park we go, I know the strays and I only have to keep two of them away because one is very aggressive and tried to attack us once, and the other one plays too rough, showing mild aggression.
 

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I also have a concealed weapons permit for my firearm. With the kid in the house, it is always under lock and key in a safe, but when I got for the longer walks with Tinsley, I have been carrying it as a (just in case), because of the neighborhood I have to walk threw sometimes. I would recommend the ASP baton as you never know what could happen, the firearm should always be a "last resort" type measure.

Or you could go with the classic.... "Don't taze me bro" method :p
 

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Reading these posts, either I am naive as heck or live in a really safe area! I have never come across a loose dog or feel the need to be armed for our walks. People are really friendly around here - mostly joggers, baby strollers, and other nice dogs on leashes at all hours.

For those considering pepper spray to stop dog attacks, I have read multiple times that pepper spray is not effective against pit bulls and other dogs who are attacking. Just thought I'd mention it so people don't get a false sense of security.
 

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I have used a water bottle to spray the ankle biters coming out to attack my legs while I'm on a bicycle. Maybe this summer I should buy a water gun or water bottle with the sports nozzle to spray them as the loose dogs approach.
I've resorted to yelling at the owners of small dogs that let their dogs off leash that my dogs consider little dogs chew toys and will shake their dog to death if they get them so they better get their rear ends over to pick their dog up because my hands are tied trying to keep my dogs from killing theirs. I usually get a bunch of nasty comments but I just really don't want any of the dogs to get hurt.
I used to carry dog treats with me to toss at loose dogs but then my younger dog learned to eat my coat pockets out to get the treats...
Of course none of these techniques work well with the bully breeds, just the ankle biters.
 
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