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I make a point to hug and cherish my Katie everyday, but yesterday I did it with so many tears pooling in my eyes.
What you're going through resonates so much. It brings back so many painful memories and while I was going through the devestating cancer diagnosis with my last Golden, I wished I had a forum like this. I talk about you all to my husband like you are all my friends. I told him one of "our" dogs on the forum had been diagnosed with cancer and I just stood and cried. My heart literally broke, because I know how hard it is and all the anguish you are going through. Just made me so sad that someone was living with that pain so immediate in their life. (the pain of losing a beloved golden is never far from the surface and Selka's diagnosis brought it ever closer again)

I haven't read the blogspot yet, but will do so after writing this response.
I am encouraged that there is the possibility of a clinical trial. And so glad that you're taking care of yourself as well. You are getting your bearings again and putting a plan into action. The times I felt the best when Bear was sick was when I felt in control and had a plan.
I hope that whatever initiatives you choose to participate in help Selka by reducing his pain and increasing his quality and quantity of life. That is my prayer for you.

Your family hasn't been far from my thoughts...and you will remain there.
Good luck and I hope it is good news on the clinical trial front!

All the best ... and I am sure those steaks were devoured! Sounds yummy!

---
Kim
 

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Debles

Debles

Praying Selka gets in the trial, too.

Are the pain meds helping him with walking?

I imagine Selka is still sore from the srays.

You and Selka are in my prayers and thoughts constantly.
 

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It lifts my heart to hear that there is a ray of Hope for Selka! I hope he makes it into the trial. Also, the supplements and food options sound very promising. I will be praying non stop for your sweet boy, that he may indeed become another one of our Golden miracles.

You sound much better too, which turns my tears to a smile.

ONLY HAPPY THOUGHTS!!!
 

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Tons of hugs, love and prayers for you, your husband, gunner and of course darling Selka.

I have to share your journey in a small way. I feel I would be letting down a dog friend and a person friend if I didn't. Prayers and long distance love are all I can offer, but I have a boundless amount of those.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Thank you everyone for all your love, empathy and support and Karen for bumping up his thread. How loving of you!

I have two questions for those who have had dogs with cancer and those who specifically had osteosarcoma.

My husband thinks I should try not to give him too much pain meds because he will build up a tolerance and then when he really needs them, they won't help. My take and what the vet said was give him what he needs now. Because I think when your bone is deteriorating from cancer, you are already in horrendous pain. He is just so strong and stoic.

Which leads to my other question:
With bone cancer what are the signs the pain is too much? Everyone says I will know when it's time but I am so afraid I will let him go too long because he doesn't show it.
When he stops eating, can't walk at all, has a fracture? That seems too far to me but then the time could almost be now except he still seems happy. He still goes out and rolls in the grass and kind of tries to play. He wants treats, loves his steak!

When he pants I am terrified it is because he is hurting. He limped some today and alittle bit of the time he didn't.

Also GOOD news!! My friend is loaning us a ramp so he can get on the couch without risking breaking his leg! She is bringing it tomorrow. He has still been getting on the couch and love seat (he sleeps there at night.) but it terrifies me when he does.
 

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Aw Deb, I've been thinking about you and your handsome fella. All I know about the timing is that no one has ever said to me that they sent their beloved pup to the Bridge too early, but a number of friends have said they left it too late, even by a day. I do believe that Selka will tell you, but it is harder to hear the message with a stoic dog. Today is the fifth anniversary of Cody's departure to be with the angels; he would never have told me except the DM went to his brain and caused massive, traumatic seizures. I think your heart will tell you when it's time......meantime, spoil that boy like crazy.
 

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Wonderful news about the ramp and hearing that Selka likes to roll in the grass and get his treats.:)

I have lost a golden to liver cancer and my father to colon cancer. With both of them, we gave the full prescribed amount of pain meds. There are always other pain meds available if one stops working.

The panting could be due to pain or just the heat. If it doesn't stop once he cools off, you could assume it is from pain.

I feel I waited one day too long with my golden who had liver cancer. I just couldn't let go sooner. However, I had plenty of pain meds and even a syringe full of acepromazine (to end his life with) if things had gotten desperate in the middle of the night. He was almost comatose from overdose when we took him to the vet the next morning and that was on purpose. He was PTS very peacefully.

Two days before he was still eating, running and playing so the end can come very quickly. Whenever you decide it is time is right. It is just a very hard thing to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Well the prescribed pain meds are "Give him as much Tramadol as you think he needs." So I have been giving him one today every 6 hours and last night I gave him two and he seemed to sleep OK.

I do have Acepromazine (it's Gunner's that we don't use) but I could give him that in an emergency, if the vet can't get here ASAP.

One vet mentioned morphine but I thought when that time comes I will know it's time. But if it happened fast or his leg fractured.. I think I will ask about getting some.
 

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As long as he is happy it isn't time.

As close as you are to Selka, when it is time you will feel it deep within your heart and he will tell you he is ready.
 

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I really don't understand men sometimes with the "don't give them pain medication" mindset. One of my husband's brothers just said the same thing about his father who is in considerable pain from a severe fall and stroke (and is 91 years old). The doctor read him the riot act when he heard that! I'm sure your hubby doesn't want Selka to suffer and if you skimp on pain meds now he will suffer NOW. There are other pain medications that can be added to Tramadol if/when Selka needs more but I wouldn't deny him the possibility of good days now for the unpredictable future by holding out on pain relief now. Maybe your vet should have a heart to heart with the husband about how Selka's pain can be managed in the future to ease his anxiety.

Though he had a different type of cancer, we knew it was time to release Barkley when he developed a host of complications at the same time and it was clear there was no chance of recovery. I could also see it in Barkley's eyes--one day he had a spark in them and he was his usual happy self, the next it was gone. Not all dogs lose their appetite in the end so I would not necessarily rely on that as the sole indicator. Barkley ate just a few bites of canned food but nothing like he used to eat, and definitely without his usual gusto. If Selka is rolling around, looking happy and eating with gusto I'd say he's not ready.

I hope you all have a wonderful day together today Deb.
 

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Debles

Deb

My hubby has said the same thing about himself, he has stenosis in two of his discs, that he doesn't want to take cortisone shots now, because then if he really needs them in future, they may not work. As far as Smooch goes, if she is limping, she gets half a Previcox (NSAID) and a Tramadol, too, if it is really bad.

I would ask the vet if a dog can build up a tolerance to the pain meds.
For me, I agree with you, I live in today and if you think Selka is in pain, I would give the pain med.

So glad your friend is lending you the ramp!

Kisses to Selka and what is Selka eating for lunch and dinner today!?
 

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Morning Deb, My fingers are crossed that you hear good news about Selka entering the trials very soon.

I wish I could give some advice about pain meds, but Sam was on them for pain from arthritis, very different for cancer pain. He was prescribed tramadol, 1 in the am and 1 in the pm, I don't remember the dosage, but I stopped giving them when I saw no discernible relief. Oddly enough, aspirin worked best for Sam. As for panting, Sam had been panting quite a bit in the warmer months before he passed. I thought it was just the heat, but finding the tumor in his chest just before he passed, I now wonder if he was in pain and I just didn't know it? He showed no other signs of distress. He ate well, still loved his walks, smiled at me constantly, and was eager to get in the car every day to pick Katie up from school...though I was helping him into the car at this point but he could still get out on his own. We bought a ramp, but it was easier for me to help him, he didn't like the feel of the ramp. Sam also had the weakness in his hindquarters which made him leery of unfamiliar footing. I started using a harness to help him up from a lying position or to walk long distances. This helped to take weight off of his hips. Maybe a harness will help Selka? Hotel for dogs just got a very nice one for Toby...I think it is the same one Carol used for Beau. There's a thread here with a link to it. They were both very pleased with the harness.

Hugs and Happy Thoughts from Maryland
 

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Deb

I am so sorry for being late getting on board this thread, or any of the others.

I want you to know I am thinking about you and Selka and will keep on doing so. I hope you get a good amount of quality time with him. Still very close to my heart, and I know what you are going through.

It is amazing how strong the dogs are isn't it. Max was so much stronger than I was. That is for sure.

Give Selka a GREAT BIG hug from me, please.

Ann
 

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Copper was prescribed 50 mg of Tramadol every 8 hours after his splenectomy. He weighs 65 lbs.
I think Selka should get more than that, but I don't know how much.

You're in my thoughts and prayers. I also lit a candle for you and Selka.:smooch:
 

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From my experience with two dogs having this, give the pain medication to him, in what ever amount he needs, when they no longer have the interest in doing what they love to do, that is a sign, One of my dogs, sliped on a step, broke her leg, the leg had actual broke, then she fell, the cancer eats through the bone.
 

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Deb, hoping Selka is accepted to do the trial and glad you have some good info and options to help him. My continued prayers and thoughts are with you and candles lit for your sweet boy. Will check in tomorrow.
Hugs.
 

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Deb, I am sending LOTS of hugs and pets and prayers to you and Selka. You are a great Mom and you will know when its time. My heart dog Sandy, had cancer and I knew when it was time.. I waited a day too long and I feel bad about that, but its so hard to let them go...you will do the right thing.
I am so very sorry that you are going through this. I know it difficult. I lost my lab mix Riley in a day and that was so very hard to take, but so was it losing Sandy..its never a good time...but we do what we have to do for our beloved furbabies.
I hope that Selka gets into the trial and I think that I would give Selka the medication for pain...if he builds up a tolerance then maybe you can just give him more. I know you dont want him in pain for even a minute. xxoo
 

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Discussion Starter #60
I had a dark night of the soul last night. Woke at 2, berating myself for my positive attitude yesterday thinking he could do the clinical trial, ordering supplements.
I know he has to be in horrible pain. If I had a tumor in my arm and a huge lump of inflammation like that I would probably be screaming, especially if I had to walk on it!
He seems to be panting more...
I am so afraid of what godensrbest said, that his leg will fracture and no meds will help that excruciating pain.

I wanted the clinical trial for pain relief but I don't know if it can help quick enough. This is only four days into the diagnosis and I think he is suffering. Yes, yesterday his tail was wagging and he was smiling.. we will see what today brings.

I just need to be focused on how he is feeling NOW. and be realistic that it is probably going to get worse fast.

At first I was giving him one 50 mg Tramadol then when I believed he was panting more I gave him two at bedtime.
I did that again last night.

I know dan loves Selka and was just afraid of not having meds that would work when he needs them. I will call and see what my vet thinks we can add if he all of a sudden takes a turn for the worse before we can act. My main goal is that he not suffer... but is he suffering too much now?
 
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