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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
does anyone know if the PennHip results are automatically posted on OFA or can a breeder hide the results?

also, any known breeders of light english Goldens in Michigan, Indiana or even Canada that have available puppies at this time? looking for that big wide head and snout.
 

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Pennhip results are posted unless the owner sends them into OFA and pays a small fee. Be careful with Pennhip. It's not as user friendly as OFA and can be done as young as 4 months, but that doesn't fulfill the GRCA code of ethics.


You'll be hard pressed to find any responsible breeder with puppies available now, especially when most US breeders of this style are profit driven. Are you sure you want a golden? A wide snout doesn't really fit the breed standard.
 

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This is also a misconception because I have seen a ton of show goldens with bigger heads than English!
 

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One of the several issues I have with PennHIP is the lack of a public verification system. The only way PennHIP is actually verifiable on a public yet protected (non-user entry where anyone can put anything) is to send the results to OFA with a small fee. It is only at that point that OFA verifies the PennHIP and make the result available in a searchable database. PennHIP itself does not provide a way to verify the results a real, unaltered and completed at the appropriate age of 24 months or older.

It is important to understand that though PennHIP is a recognized as on if the accepted hip testing organization. This test is commonly used outside the GRCA Code of Ethics to represent a dog as having “clearances” when they really don’t. They like this tests because the report for a 24 month old adult and a 4 month old puppy are the same. Also the same is the no pass/fail scoring system. The form for a Dysplastic dog and a normal hip dog are also the same except for a numerical scoring system that the a average person may not fully understand.

I am sorry to say I don’t have any recommendations for you other that to research to become very good at verifying health certifications and be skeptical of breeders advertising English. Especially if English is paired with light color terms. There are very few breeders working with European pedigrees in US that are responsible and have all the health certifications they should. Sadly this style is commonly produced by breeders in it for the money. When money is the motivation, taking shortcuts in health.

Here is an infographic and some screenshots to hopefully help you get a start on health certification verification.
 

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I happen to have dogs from both American and European pedigrees. I have to agree with others that the head discription you have is easily available in American pedigrees.
Here is a photo of my darker American girl with a big, broad head and my lighter European Girl with her still very pretty but narrower head.

I would encourage you to get out to an AKC show to see the dogs in person. Some people have a misconception about the appearance of American dogs since most have only ever seen poorly bred dogs in person.

You may find you like what you see enough to move to searching for a good breeder that has health certifications as a priority over external qualities.
 

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To find shows to attend- go to infodog.com, then go to show info, shows by state, click your state.
A list will come up of upcoming shows. Scroll down to the ones that are AB/O/JSHW
under 'type' and then when the show comes up, on the left side of the screen click 'show premium' which will give you a document that has the address. About a week from that show, the 'judging schedule' will come up on the left side- there, you would look for Retrievers Golden and find the time they will show that day. Often shows are held in clusters, there will be a different judging schedule for each day. Plan to pay about $5 for parking and if you buy a catalog, you can find the names of the dogs and their owners. Catalogs are around $5-$10. Shows don't usually charge admission. Some might require bringing your own chair.
 

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@LJack - you rule! thanks for posting that! Completely agree.

About heads - there are very typey lines out there who are known to create that look. There is some English (actually English) influence behind them.

Personally speaking, I've had my eyes open in looking for a dog that is similar to my Jacks. All the dogs who have the same "look" have Malagold behind them, particularly those with Daystar's Tornado Warning behind them (and Trowsnest's Whirlwind, of course). This includes one of my prior dogs who had the same look.

Tricky thing though is even Malagold doesn't just breed the same heads on everything they breed. There's the whole dog that needs to be considered when looking for a puppy. In my case, I do want other things too....

There's nothing wrong in wanting a certain look - unless it is incorrect for the breed.

Biggest issue with the "english creme" fad is you have breeders openly advertising white dogs because they know that their buyers are seeking that. And that is very incorrect for this breed.

@shows - Michigan will have the big Winter classic in Novi in mid January. Public is very encouraged to come (among else, there's nothing else to do in Jan LOL).
@Pennhip - would have MORE RESPECT for it as a legit source IF the people using it followed the same rules that everyone else follows with OFA. Including OFA views (which are one of the views which Penn Hip does). The issue is you have people getting puppies checked and never checking again (at 24 months) before beginning to breed the dogs. And, because there isn't a public database or way of checking the info, it is very enabling for fraud.

Likewise, there are people moving off to using european systems to check elbows as well. The problem is grade 1 elbow dysplasia is acceptable for clearances over there. So people may do this just so they can breed dogs with elbow dysplasia and have a clearance to show off to puppy people.

Be very wary of breeders out there who pull all kinds of games just so they do not have to retire a dog from breeding plans when it comes out he has bad hips, bad elbows, or even a combination of both and even the introduction of problems like bad shoulders and bad knees which are problems in the breed but not as prevalent as hips and elbow problems. All this stuff takes off running when you have breeders willing to breed a dog who is poor breeding quality and they are already lowering the bar on overall look.

Hey, and I'll add another thing. :) Be aware that there are breeders out there who are advertising their dogs as clear of ichythyosis when putting them up for stud. But privately tell people that their dog is a carrier.

These are reasons to not just trust everything you are told by some breeders. The more transparency with checks/tests/clearances, the better.
 

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@LJack - you rule! thanks for posting that! Completely agree.


Hey, and I'll add another thing. :) Be aware that there are breeders out there who are advertising their dogs as clear of ichythyosis when putting them up for stud. But privately tell people that their dog is a carrier.

These are reasons to not just trust everything you are told by some breeders. The more transparency with checks/tests/clearances, the better.
That one kills me. I too have heard people say this.
And they feel they are technically telling the truth since the dog is a carrier and does not have the actual disease....then there are the bitch owners who, for whatever reason (since I taught it to my kids in 3rd grade and figure it is 3rd grade level of understanding), do not understand how a Punnett Square works and believe the stud dog owner then are left with major housekeeping issues and more.
 
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