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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Hello,

I am empathetic to the puppy and the family. I can understand the frustration and challenge you have been going through. I am someone who was fearful of dogs and now have 4+ months golden puppy. I will share my experience here, hope that helps.

1. A puppy if hungry, can never be trained. His biting /nipping habits could be a result of not getting enough food as well. Imagine we are in a classroom training but hungry enough that cannot focus. You as an owner will realize if he/she is getting enough food.
2. Puppy training is patience and patience and patience, I had the least in the family, our daughter who is in elementary school had the most. I have come along a long way in last 2.5 months to teach myself patience on handling dogs and managing them.
3. Puppy do not understand scolding, loud voice is music to their ears. Having calm and composed but strong message passing helps. Hand indication and key words associated with it works wonder. Saying "This is absolutely wrong thing you did" confused our pup. He just does not understand human language.
4. Puppy tied to a leash to you or under direct supervision helps. We used to take him out every 30 mins when the temperature outside was very well below freezing points and middle of 4 ft snow storm. It is challenging in an apartment but use pea pads . We never used pea pads.
5. Close to 5 months, our puppy is not fully house trained but very rare accidents occur. At times if he cannot hold, he will pee a few drop and hold rest to go out.
6. Have a neighbor with 3 extremely well behaved dogs, he said one of them peed all over the place till 1 yr. So there is no rule that fits all.
7. Every time he does it inside, show frustration and dislike by saying Ah, no, not again but not loudly. I made this mistake many times initially before realizing it does not help. No screaming , no loud voice helps - not with our puppy. But showing displeasure does.
8. every time she nips/tries to bite say Ouch loud, step aside, turn your back. Keep repeating till she understands this is not a playful attitude and will not be entertained.
9. Poop if contains undigested food, puppy may eat. I have read this but never happened . Is she hungry, if she is well fed why will she eat poop or do you notice that she has undigested food in the poop?
10. When you take her for walk, if possible go more than one family member together. It helps to understand the whole pack is doing what she should follow. In extreme cold, we all took him out for walk and he did reasonably well.
11. Last but not least, dog training starts with us, it is we who needs to be trained that in turn trains the dog. Two books helped us understand dog behavior, one that I did not complete but first few chapters are enough to teach me I was wrong every single time. Book - "The other end of the leash: why we do what we do around dogs has been of great help."

Good luck and would love to hear how things change positively.
Thanks for your detailed response. I think the biting issue has reduced. The main problem to be solved is peeing. She pees all over the house and also in her bed. We are taking her to the pee mat as soon as she gets up from her lazy slumber but accidents keep happening few times a day. I think the combination of being parents of 2 young kids aged 5 and 9 and lot of office work that me and my wife both have compounds the frustration of not being good dog parents. Will keep trying. She is our family. Thanks for your inputs again.
 

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I’m sure you might be feeling insulted by some of the comments. I get it, bc I was somewhat in your shoes. With our first lab, I experienced many of the same things. I was in way over my head, as you seem to be now, and learned everything the hard way.

Labs, like Goldens, become amazing dogs in part when they have amazing owners. I didn’t do my homework with the lab and she soon did hers and the wrong one of us was getting trained.

I was lucky to get good guidance and we flipped that.

My best advice (without reading that of the experts) is to go straight to YouTube and look up McCann Dogs channel. Search for their lab and new puppy videos and start from square one, as if you just brought her home.

She won’t mind if you reset and start over, and I suspect if you invest the time, watch and rewatch those videos and practice as directed, your Hazel will become the dog you were looking for. You both need better training than you’ve been getting. Some days will go better than others, but when we get our new girl later this month, those videos are where we will start, and I will revisit them often for reinforcement.

Don’t give up on your girl; I have to believe she just needs a new approach.
 

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Thanks for your support. My wife was upset why I turned to this forum as most people were not helpful and trolling. I’m glad few understand and are helpful. The good news is that biting problem has reduced and we are hopeful that toilet training will also be sorted soon. Thanks for your message.
Glad to hear the biting has improved. Giving a puppy lots of structure and routine is the best way to establish good behavior patterns. Say It Once Dog Training and Robert Cabral are two trainers I really like. They are both in the states but have great social media account. If you check them out you will learn a lot!

Best of luck to you!
 

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try removing her bed and bringing her to the pee mat more often, especially when she is awake. the bedding material and pee mat are probably confusing her, and you'd have better luck removing her bedding for now given that she has already made a habit out of going on her bed.
 

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Hi! Just wanted to chime in to say the issues you are facing are normal puppy issues, and can definitely be resolved with training, time and patience. We raised our golden retriever in a high rise as well - while potty training can be more difficult, it is definitely doable. (We live in Singapore - 80% of the population live in high rise apartments.)

We got our puppy from the breeder at 2.5months. He wasn’t potty trained at all when we got him. Since we live in a high rise, we decided to pee pad train. He tore up the pee pads, so we used pee trays + pee pads. He was in a play pen with access to the pee tray. At the start, we brought him to the pee tray every hour, and after every play session and after every meal. Basically just kept bringing him to the pee tray until we could ‘capture’ a successful pee / poop, and rewarded -and celebrated heavily! (Believe me, by then our celebration wasn’t even a show we were putting on - we were truly overjoyed). He took to pooping on the pee tray pretty quickly, but peeing in the right spot took some time for him to get right. As a young puppy, bladder control isn’t great, so accidents are common. When we caught him peeing in the wrong spot, we picked him up and carried him to the pee tray - if he finished his pee on the pee tray, he was rewarded heavily. At least at this age, they are still tiny so they are easy to carry! After he realized he would get treats each time he pees on the pee tray, he started going there to pee a lot just to get more treats. (Though it took him a while to realize that he should ONLY pee on the pee tray and not other places) We slowly increased the access he has to the apartment (also for his own safety, as he was into chewing everything as a puppy). He now has access to the whole apartment, except for the kitchen.

Not going to lie, potty training was a pain - but just know it takes time and you will get there! We didn’t have any trouble making him go on grass after he got all his shots. So he’s now pee tray and grass trained, which works well for us. Different people have different preferences, so just pick one that works for you.

She might be biting more now also because she’s teething - we found frozen towels helpful. Wet a knotted towel and put it in the freezer, give to her when frozen.

Like you, we also live next to a dog park. Dog parks have their pros and cons - you can google this, many articles written on this. Some dogs are mean to puppies, so keep a watchful eye. Our dog made great friends at the dog park, but we have also had some bad experiences, so something for you to watch out for when Hazel is old enough to go there.

Training will definitely take much longer than 3 sessions, and you need to be 100% consistent (which I know can be hard when there are other members in the family). We had 10 sessions, daily homework after each session, and he eventually passed his basic obedience training, but even then, you have to consistently practice/train. Also there are ALOT of trainers out there, so pick one that uses methods that you are comfortable with - bearing in mind that you are the one who will need to be using those methods to train your dog.

Hang in there!
 

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Hi! Just wanted to chime in to say the issues you are facing are normal puppy issues, and can definitely be resolved with training, time and patience. We raised our golden retriever in a high rise as well - while potty training can be more difficult, it is definitely doable. (We live in Singapore - 80% of the population live in high rise apartments.)

We got our puppy from the breeder at 2.5months. He wasn’t potty trained at all when we got him. Since we live in a high rise, we decided to pee pad train. He tore up the pee pads, so we used pee trays + pee pads. He was in a play pen with access to the pee tray. At the start, we brought him to the pee tray every hour, and after every play session and after every meal. Basically just kept bringing him to the pee tray until we could ‘capture’ a successful pee / poop, and rewarded -and celebrated heavily! (Believe me, by then our celebration wasn’t even a show we were putting on - we were truly overjoyed). He took to pooping on the pee tray pretty quickly, but peeing in the right spot took some time for him to get right. As a young puppy, bladder control isn’t great, so accidents are common. When we caught him peeing in the wrong spot, we picked him up and carried him to the pee tray - if he finished his pee on the pee tray, he was rewarded heavily. At least at this age, they are still tiny so they are easy to carry! After he realized he would get treats each time he pees on the pee tray, he started going there to pee a lot just to get more treats. (Though it took him a while to realize that he should ONLY pee on the pee tray and not other places) We slowly increased the access he has to the apartment (also for his own safety, as he was into chewing everything as a puppy). He now has access to the whole apartment, except for the kitchen.

Not going to lie, potty training was a pain - but just know it takes time and you will get there! We didn’t have any trouble making him go on grass after he got all his shots. So he’s now pee tray and grass trained, which works well for us. Different people have different preferences, so just pick one that works for you.

She might be biting more now also because she’s teething - we found frozen towels helpful. Wet a knotted towel and put it in the freezer, give to her when frozen.

Like you, we also live next to a dog park. Dog parks have their pros and cons - you can google this, many articles written on this. Some dogs are mean to puppies, so keep a watchful eye. Our dog made great friends at the dog park, but we have also had some bad experiences, so something for you to watch out for when Hazel is old enough to go there.

Training will definitely take much longer than 3 sessions, and you need to be 100% consistent (which I know can be hard when there are other members in the family). We had 10 sessions, daily homework after each session, and he eventually passed his basic obedience training, but even then, you have to consistently practice/train. Also there are ALOT of trainers out there, so pick one that uses methods that you are comfortable with - bearing in mind that you are the one who will need to be using those methods to train your dog.

Hang in there!
This is Buddy now! He’s 1.5 years old :)
882691


Instagram - @buds.forlife
 

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My now four year old Golden as a puppy went with me to care for my senior father. He lived on the third floor and dogs were not allowed to potty on the grounds. So it required me to carry my pup to the elevator and out through the grounds and across the street. So it was necessary for me to train him to use potty pads on the balcony to supplement the trips outside. So about half the time I walked him out to the pad, and walked him around on it until he peed and we celebrated. If he didn’t pee, he had to go back in his crate. And half the time I would carry him on the journey outside to the potty area. And again successfully potting resulted in much celebrating and playtime. This worked out fine. When we were at home, it was frequent trips to the backyard to pee, then playtime, pee again and crate time, repeat. We had very few accidents because he was watched closely or crated.

My next puppy, a girl, was trained to use a litter box in her pen. I actually used two litter boxes. So if she had to pee multiple times when we were not home or at night, she could stay clean by using the other box. She rarely pooped in the box, just pee usually. Though a couple times over night she did poop and ate some of it. After that I made sure that she pooped outside before going in her pen for the night. That ended the poop eating. During the day, she could be in the kitchen area and had access to use her litter box, if I did not catch her in time to take her outside to pee. Peeing outside got her the big celebration. Once she was old enough that she no longer used her litter box over night, I removed the litter box and she began sleeping upstairs in a crate. Though I occasionally put the litter box back in her pen if we had to be gone longer than I thought she could hold her pee. Now at just over a year and 1/2 she is loose in the house, except at night she sleeps in her crate. One time she did confuse a bathroom throw rug and peed on it. An honest mistake, that can happen sometimes using inside litter boxes. Though now she is 100% perfect! I liked giving her the litter box, it almost 100% eliminated peeing accidents in the house.
 

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Both these pups were from great breeders. So the pups came, at 7 weeks old, wanting to be clean. Because both breeders raised their pups in sanitary conditions. So I will tell you about a rescue golden adopted at about 8 months old. He came with only bad habits. He knew nothing about living inside a house. He was a submissive urinator, possibly from being scolded/punished for peeing in the house, probably by someone that did not know how to properly teach a puppy. NEVER scold/punish a puppy for having an accident in the house. Puppy accidents are the owners fault, not the puppies. Do not scold/punish a puppy if you come home to a mess! All the puppy learns from this is that you are dangerous and unpredictable. And the way a puppy handles this type of owner is to be very submissive to avoid an attack. Submission is shown by urinating. So this can cause more accidents and create a dog that submissively urinates. We did successfully house train our rescue pup and were able to build his confidence and slowly the submissive urinating stopped. He became a perfect house dog that never had accidents. But it’s so much easier starting with an empty slate without the human caused issues. So just try to remember your puppy is a baby, without a diaper. You have to be the one to make sure pee and poop happens in the right spot. Also this baby comes knowing how to be a puppy, not how to be a human. We have different rules and different ways of communicating. So be kind as you learn to communicate with each other.

I do teach my puppies and dogs words like good and yes for when they do things I like. And often these words are followed with treats, toys or play so the pup learns to like to hear these words. I also teach the words wrong or no. No treats are given for these words. But these words aren’t followed with punishment either. They are words for learning. Peeing on the carpet might get the word Wrong, as I quickly put the pup on a pee pad and the pup gets told Good or Yes. When my puppies are young they always get a “good girl or boy” and a small treat for going potty outside on command.
 

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Hazel is 4 months old, we got her home a month ago to say she has been a lot of will be an understatement. I’m not sure if these are normal behaviour of something to be concerned:

1. she eats her poop. We will in an appartment and we will keep her in her pen and watch her like a hawk to remove her poop tray as soon as she does her business. We have now started taking her for a walk. Usually it’s 4 poops in a day at 6:15, 10, 5 and 9:30. Yesterday she pooped earlier at 8 and ate it ☹
2. After we have allowed her to freely move out of her pen she is peeing everywhere. Sometimes even the couch. We did this because earlier when we restricted her to pen we would keep her pee mat inside her pen and she will land up sleeping on her pee mat.
3. She is adamant and while walking will sit down on her own will and then lie down and won’t move for few minutes. I wonder if she is lazy or adamant. I have to lure treats and sometime even that doesn’t work. I’m not surely entirely if she is lazy cause back home she will have spurts of energy when she is running around in small apartment doing crazy stuff. I mean I was out with her minutes ago on walks and she was lazy on the walk.
4. She gets super excited seeing other dogs and will pull on leash to play with them and it will usually end up with the other dogs growling at her annoyed with her excitement.
5. She likes playing and licking strangers and the moment she sees anyone walking past she will pull leash to go and get petted by them and lick them.
6. Lastly biting issues, I just can’t pet her. The moment I will try to let she will try to grab my hand and bite it. Even with kids at home if they are hanging their legs she wants to bite them.


All these issues are overwhelming me and spoiling my relationship with her as I’m getting irritated and have less patience compared to my wife and sometimes I land up scolding her.
I don’t know which issues to prioritise but it’s not working. I have a trainer who charges me $100 per hour and have 3 sessions and hasn’t worked. I don’t know how to solve these. I don’t know if she is adamant, dumb, lazy or has health issues.
I wonder if someone can help.
Regards
VC
 

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Im sorry to hear you’re frustrated. I believe a big piece of your issue is not getting your pup during a very crucial period, which would be the 8-12 week period. It’s not the pups fault that there appears to be no instruction prior to you receiving Hazel. But you can do this! It’s going to take consistency and patience!
Hazel is 4 months old, we got her home a month ago to say she has been a lot of will be an understatement. I’m not sure if these are normal behaviour of something to be concerned:

1. she eats her poop. We will in an appartment and we will keep her in her pen and watch her like a hawk to remove her poop tray as soon as she does her business. We have now started taking her for a walk. Usually it’s 4 poops in a day at 6:15, 10, 5 and 9:30. Yesterday she pooped earlier at 8 and ate it ☹
2. After we have allowed her to freely move out of her pen she is peeing everywhere. Sometimes even the couch. We did this because earlier when we restricted her to pen we would keep her pee mat inside her pen and she will land up sleeping on her pee mat.
3. She is adamant and while walking will sit down on her own will and then lie down and won’t move for few minutes. I wonder if she is lazy or adamant. I have to lure treats and sometime even that doesn’t work. I’m not surely entirely if she is lazy cause back home she will have spurts of energy when she is running around in small apartment doing crazy stuff. I mean I was out with her minutes ago on walks and she was lazy on the walk.
4. She gets super excited seeing other dogs and will pull on leash to play with them and it will usually end up with the other dogs growling at her annoyed with her excitement.
5. She likes playing and licking strangers and the moment she sees anyone walking past she will pull leash to go and get petted by them and lick them.
6. Lastly biting issues, I just can’t pet her. The moment I will try to let she will try to grab my hand and bite it. Even with kids at home if they are hanging their legs she wants to bite them.


All these issues are overwhelming me and spoiling my relationship with her as I’m getting irritated and have less patience compared to my wife and sometimes I land up scolding her.
I don’t know which issues to prioritise but it’s not working. I have a trainer who charges me $100 per hour and have 3 sessions and hasn’t worked. I don’t know how to solve these. I don’t know if she is adamant, dumb, lazy or has health issues.
I wonder if someone can help.
Regards
VC
I would highly recommend working with this trainer...
@Consciousdogtraining
She has an Instagram account with tons of helpful videos and lots of practical advise. She also offers a training program that is very reasonable, considering you’re paying $100 an hour for training.
I hope this helps! You will get there, with consistency and patience!
 

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Hello,

I appreciate your feedback but not the judgements (without knowing us). We are not severely confining her or giving her a terrible life. We love her! She goes on 4 walks and has playtimes. We can’t take her to the dog park yet as she hasn’t got her rabies vaccine. I have never owned puppy, hence not experienced to raise one. This is my first experience, hence a little overwhelmed. I am not expecting it to be smooth, but I agree I need to change my attitude and look at it more as an adventure than an ordeal. That’s a good perspective. My puppies behaviour towards me and my wife is very different. All the things I experience on walks and home, my wife doesn’t. Our puppy listens to my wife, but adamant with me, probably it’s the difference in the way we communicate with her. I will watch and adapt how I can I communicate better. Housebreaking a puppy even for pees (when your puppy pees 20 times in a day and when you live in high rise apartment, and building management intolerant to accidents) isn’t feasible. What’s feasible for you may not be feasible for others. There is no one size that fits all! So housetraining her is very important. From what I have learnt from friends, some puppies train early while some take longer. I would like to get suggestions from people who have had similar experiences with their puppies who take longer in similar environments and understand how they have dealt with it.
We are trying to help you, not criticize you. It must be very difficult trying to raise a pup in a high rise situation. Potty training is easy for me because I am mostly home and am able to keep an eye on pup and let it outside when it looks like it needs to relieve itself. I end up taking it outside about every half hour during the day when it is very young. I am sure this would be impossible for you to do in your situation. Goldens are very sociable and need to be around people and other dogs. Being alone and cooped up all the time is not good for their mental and psychological development. I wonder if you have considered puppy daycare, some place where it can play with other dogs? This might be a good break for you too. Another idea would be to find a better home for the pup and consider getting an older dog who is already grown up and trained. Some of my best dogs have been older, retired Goldens who have come to live with us in their senior years. They may only live for another 2 or 3 years but they are such great, loving friends, and easy to have around. It is heartbreaking when they die, but the love they give is worth the tears we shed when they go. Good luck to you.
 

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Thanks for your detailed response. I think the biting issue has reduced. The main problem to be solved is peeing. She pees all over the house and also in her bed. We are taking her to the pee mat as soon as she gets up from her lazy slumber but accidents keep happening few times a day. I think the combination of being parents of 2 young kids aged 5 and 9 and lot of office work that me and my wife both have compounds the frustration of not being good dog parents. Will keep trying. She is our family. Thanks for your inputs again.
Just wanted to add that we use an app called Puppy Potty log to record all pees, poops, food and water. It has been fairly spot on about predicting her pees based on what we have been logging. Poos less so these days because we moved her potty spot outside to our patio and she HATES pooping out there. It was really handy for us initially when we had her out of the crate for play / training sessions, before she started letting us know she needed to pee.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
Just wanted to add that we use an app called Puppy Potty log to record all pees, poops, food and water. It has been fairly spot on about predicting her pees based on what we have been logging. Poos less so these days because we moved her potty spot outside to our patio and she HATES pooping out there. It was really handy for us initially when we had her out of the crate for play / training sessions, before she started letting us know she needed to pee.
Yes we got something similar and it worked. She is now potty trained. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Hi all things are fine here. Hazel is now fully potty trained and just poops 4 times a day outside the house. No more poop eating incidents too since the longest period of time.
She has also learned to pee just on the pee mat. Sometimes we don’t even have to tell her and she does it on her own.
Apparently she got bitten by a nasty Shiba Inu and had to be on antibiotics for a week and the doctors had to shave off her scalp (where she got bitten). Most of the hair is back and she is doing fine.
The key things which are still unresolved are walking issues. She is stubborn to walk when we take her out. Walk back home is really smooth. I think it’s the heat in Hong Kong. The temp now is around 26-30 Celsius plus high humidity. We take her out 4 times a day, one of which is around 10:30am. Have to try and switch to 3 times instead so we can skip the 10:30 am when it’s hot.
Also we noticed her belly is turning a bit blackish, anyone got any clue on that?
Thanks to everyone on this forum for all the relevant suggestions.
Regards
 

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Save your most delicious treats for your walks. While you’re walking, when she is walking next to you, say “yes” and give her a treat. You will see, she will begin to try to figure out what you want! Goldens want to please, so this should become very clear that she wants to do what you want!
Her tummy color is just pigmentation! But you can confirm with your vet, if it seems concerning!
 

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She’s so cute. Good to hear she’s now potty trained. Yummy treats should help on the walk. Though some pups can have a hard time dealing with the heat. Adding to it the ground might be too hot on her paws, don’t let her get overheated or burn her pads.
 

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Glad to hearr you guys are doing well! We are working through leash training with our puppy too, and it's been no joke especially with the heat. Kikopup has some great videos, especially on attention training that we have had some success with. Ours was also going a bit crazy in spurts at the start, and darting here and there. What we've found at the start of the walk was if we could find a nice, safe patch of grass for her to go nuts on, she was better for the rest of the walk. We also sometimes do some fetch, followed by a bit of attention training at home before walks which seems to get her into gear.

For the heat, we picked up a water bottle dispenser for dogs which works really well to keep her hydrated.
 
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