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There are other seizure medications that can be used if he is having an adverse reaction to the phenobarbital. I really think you should take him in to your vet and have them look at him. Animals and humans all react to seizure medications differently. What works for one doesn't always work for all. Seizure medicines save lives and improve the quality of them everyday, but you have to find the right one.

Well wishes sent your way!
 

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Oh, he looks like such a sweetheart.

DblTrblGolden2 is absolutely right. There are other newer anti-seizure meds that are less likely to cause ataxia (and lethargy). If I were you, I would take him to a veterinary neurologist.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
So Jake has been on the Pheno for 2 weeks today. His ataxia had gotten better. He has a hard time getting up, but once he is up, he is good. The actual seizures stopped but I feel like he had the pre seizure symptoms without us actually seeing the seizure. Two hours ago, he had a real focal seizure for the first time since the meds. It lasts only a few seconds just like it did before the mded. We have a neuro appt Monday at 9. :( I was starting to feel optimistic but not anymore.
 

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Took Jake to the neurologist this past Monday. He said he wasn't convinced it was seizures. It could be something like what people experience as tics. He said we had 3 choices: First choice was to do an MRI and we can find out for sure what is going on. This test cost $5000 and unfortunetly we are not in the financial positiion to do that.

Second choice was to do a complete blood work up for $700. This may or may not tell us what is wrong. Third choice was to mix and match medications until he found some relief.
We chose to do the bloodwork. The only thing this showed us was that his organs etc are functioning normally and his levels are all ok. They put him on gabapentin. This medicine is used for pain from arthritis, cancer etc and also for seizures. In addition, he is still on the phenobarbital.
We have been giving him the gabapentin since Wednesday night. We are noticing his "twitches", Seizures, Tics....whatever they are seem to be worsening. He is also barking a lot. We are at a loss. We have a call into the Neuro to see what we should do.
Has anyone else been prescribed gabapentin for their dogs seizures etc?
Feeling a little desperate.
 

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I am sorry for what you and Jake are going through. It is frustrating to go through vets, specialists and not getting a proper diagnosis. Unfortunately, seizures, especially with aging dog may have many different origins.

One possibility is Jake’s seizures are related to his decreasing renal function. It is not uncommon myoclonic seizures (I think this is what I see in the video, uncontrolled muscle movement and twitching) accompany the progression of kidney disease.
You say Jake had his full blood work and it was OK. Do you do urine tests to assess the progression of his renal disease? Does he have proteinuria, what is his urine concentration? The blood parameters can be perfectly normal until about 85% of kidneys function are compromised. My dog had perfect blood readings the same week he passed away from kidney failure, but he had severe proteinuria and his urine concentration was 0 for a few months before he died. For us the first sign of the problem was also his hind legs giving away. There are many reasons for this, but one of them is the renal failure.
Gabapentin can worsen myoclonic seizures. See the link to the epilepsy journal. With renal disease and seizures, the recommend medications are from benzodiazepines family.
Treating seizures in renal and hepatic failure

Keeping Jake on enalapril is a good thing. Do you measure his blood pressure; maybe he needs a higher dose of enalapril. In addition, you mention Jake is on home cooked diet (my dogs as well). You want to feed him high quality, low protein diet (egg whites, fish etc) avoiding too much phosphorus.
I also recommend CBD oil. I currently have a dog with some sort of neurological movement issue. It might be seizures, though if they are they are very different from the typical ones. I think he has paroxysmal dyskinesia so the AED drugs don’t work anyway. My guy was on gabapentin for a bit but it didn’t work.

Good luck to you and Jake! Please keep us posted. I hope for no more seizures.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
You gave me some interesting information. When I looked up myoclonic seizures, it sounds like him. I have a call in to the neurologist to talk to him about it but I doubt I will hear until tomorrow. You did scare me though when you told me your pup died the same week his bloodwork was o.k. I am very sorry. His urine hasn't been tested since May. That also makes me wonder why the neurologist didn't include this in his testing.

Although knowledge is power, I don't think looking up too many things on the internet is the right choice for me. I get overwhelmed and panicked. I'm trying to just write my questions down, keep a journal and wait for the doctor.

By the way, can myoclonic seizures be treated? Do you know if they are in pain from them?
 

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Neuro said to stop the gabapentin. Added another 15 mg to Pheno. I guess the ataxia may increase again.
 

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They are not in pain during the seizures. Also with myoclonic seizures, the dogs/humans are conscious, so there is no danger of brain damage due to the shortage of oxygen. The only reason myoclonic seizures are called generalized is there is no guarantee the next seizure will not be the typical clonic/tonic when the animal loses conscience and there is a risk of brain damage.

Given Jake’s age this type of seizure is most likely a result of underlying condition rather than being idiopathic epilepsy, so it would be best to figure out and treat the underlying condition to stop the seizures rather than focusing on treating the seizures in isolation.

I didn’t mean to scare you. I was hoping to bring your attention to other markers rather than rely on blood results. It could be that increasing the dose on enalapril to ease the pressure on nephrons, or flashing the kidneys on occasion (we did that with my Buddy) could improve Jake’s kidney function and stop the seizures. This is just my guess as myoclonic seizures and not other types of seizures are associated with renal disease. But there could be many other possibilities.
 

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So here is where we are....not very far from the beginning I'm afraid. Pheno doesn't seem to be working as Jake is having a lot of movement for lack of a better word. He is very restless and barking a lot. Doctor is not convinced it is seizures. She said it may be a movement disorder. She does not believe renal disease is the problem. We are continuing with the pheno but she doesn't want to keep starting and stopping medicines. I asked what she would do if it were her dog. She said to keep him on the pheno and we are starting him on CBD oil tonight. I just pray he is not in any pain.
 

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Gave Jake 2 doses of CBD oil yesterday....12 hours apart. This morning he had a difficult time getting up and for the first time in his more than 12 years, he won't eat. Could it be the CBD Oil? Last night before bed he was his normal self wanting everthing everyone was eating. Very scared.
 

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Gave Jake 2 doses of CBD oil yesterday....12 hours apart. This morning he had a difficult time getting up and for the first time in his more than 12 years, he won't eat. Could it be the CBD Oil? Last night before bed he was his normal self wanting everthing everyone was eating. Very scared.
Anything is possible!

Hopefully the CBD oil was from a reputable and trusted source, and had LITTLE TO NO THC (<.3% ) in it. I have no idea how you dosed (relative to weight), but this is a BASIC approximation based on the dog's weight and the amount of mgs within the CBD oil.

Since dogs have many more Cannabinoid receptors then humans, THC should NOT be administered, as horrible side effects can occur.

Generally there is NO CBD in industrial help oil. Full spectrum hemp oil (from the Cannabis plant) is the product with real CBD and other Cannabinoids.

Best rule to follow is: LESS IS MORE! We humans always think the opposite which could be harmful with anything.

If you live in a state where CBD is legal (Most of the 52 USA states are CBD LEGAL....but do check your own statutes to be prudent), why not bring your dog for a vet visit? They are not allowed to talk about anything in this area, but CAN treat if they suspect something out of the ordinary occurred with the CBD treatment.
 

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Gave Jake 2 doses of CBD oil yesterday....12 hours apart. This morning he had a difficult time getting up and for the first time in his more than 12 years, he won't eat. Could it be the CBD Oil? Last night before bed he was his normal self wanting everthing everyone was eating. Very scared.
It very well could be side effects or reaction to the CBD oil.

Depends on the quantity you gave him, if the CBD oil was pure-meaning no added chemicals to it.

I would keep a close eye on your boy and if needed take him to an E Vet clinic.
 

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CBD was obtained through Nuerologist vet. It is Ellevet and the dosage that was given was 20 drops in his food 12 hours apart. This was the dosage from the vet and also on the bottle. He didn't get any this morning since he didn't eat. We thought maybe he didn't like the smell or taste of it so we gave him a fresh bowl but still didn't want it. Anyone know how long it takes for it to get out of his system? All he wants to do is sleep.:(
 

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I don't know how reputable this site is, but this is what I found here-

https://cannanine.com/how-long-the-effects-of-cbd-oil-last-for-dogs/


How Long Does CBD Stay In Your Dog’s System?
Based on human studies, CBD stays in the body long after its effects have worn off. The general consensus is that it takes about one week for CBD to leave the system. However, the amount of time CBD remains in the body depends on several factors including:

Body Weight
Diet
Activity Level
Biochemical Makeup
How Often CBD Oil is Taken:
Single use: up to 3 days
Moderate use: 3 to 5 days
Repeated use: up to 10 days or more
You may want to contact your Neurologist Vet tomorrow if you don't see any improvement. Of course keep an eye on him throughout the day and contact an E Vet if needed.
 

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Gave Jake 2 doses of CBD oil yesterday....12 hours apart. This morning he had a difficult time getting up and for the first time in his more than 12 years, he won't eat. Could it be the CBD Oil? Last night before bed he was his normal self wanting everthing everyone was eating. Very scared.

What you are describing could be a reaction to the phenobarbital. Your vet is still the best source of medical information for your dog.
 

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CBD was obtained through Nuerologist vet. It is Ellevet and the dosage that was given was 20 drops in his food 12 hours apart. This was the dosage from the vet and also on the bottle. He didn't get any this morning since he didn't eat. We thought maybe he didn't like the smell or taste of it so we gave him a fresh bowl but still didn't want it. Anyone know how long it takes for it to get out of his system? All he wants to do is sleep.:(
Excellent! I am happy that you got your information and product recommendation from a vet!

Ellevet is supposed to be a good product. It is full (broad)spectrum as I noted before, meaning that is a true CBD product.
From their site:
"INGREDIENTS: ElleVet™ Proprietary Broad Spectrum Cannabinoids Blend, Sesame Seed Oil.:
 

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Anything is possible. The oil you purchased looks very decent and it has a high concentration of CBD. The recommended dosage though is weird. Usually the recommendation is to start with very low amounts and increase the amount over time. The recommendation from your supplier is just the opposite. 20 drops on the first day seems like a lot, given this is a strong1500mg CBD. Just for comparison, from a licensed supplier, approved by the government, the strongest CBD I can get for human consumption is also 1500 mg in 30 ml bottle. So for a dog, especially for the first day 20 drops seems like a lot.
 
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