[nolefan]

Convince a buyer to take a puppy on a "boarding home" contract? Is there something I am missing here? Why would I benefit from ( I am guessing this is how it works) falling in love with a dog and caring for her on a daily basis so that the real, legal owner can remove her at will to travel to shows and have litters (multiple?) at risk of her life? Is it just to tell people I "have" a show dog or is it for financial reasons, ie owner pays the vet and food bills so I don't have to.

I saw this term used in another thread and didn't want to hijack the thread and turn it into something hurtful to the OP. I am honestly trying to figure this one out. Also, from the breeder/legal owners perspective aren't you taking a huge risk letting someone you really can't possibly know have responsibility for a presumably valuable if not loved, dog? An owner who doesnt care or is not committed can ruin the temperament of a dog, possibly making her useless in the show ring or to produce the next generation, even if they keep her fed and sheltered properly. Is the risk mitigated by money considerations?

I've been aware of the practice previously but never really thought about it. Interested in why a breeder who appears to be doing everything else "right" would do something like this. And why a prospective puppy owner would allow themselves to be taken advantage of? I figured there must be more to it that I just don't see....

 

[Sally's Mom]

I think you and I read the same thread and had the same reaction. I co-own 3 dogs/bitches.. the circumstances are different on all 3. Bottom line, they are the co-owners dogs and if and that's a big if, the dogs in question are bred,then I am compensated with a puppy(which is all I want). Boarding homes are just that(their names are not on the papers), the breeder takes the dog to show(maybe), but more importantly expects X number of litters and then the dog belongs to the boarding home. A local breeder takes the boarding dogs in when in heat so no accidents happen... she also has control to take them to shows, breed them, etc. This allows for greater than 20 bitches to be on the website. And then are we breeding for quantity and not quality? The boarding home owners have no control..

 

[Sally's Mom]

And some of these boarding contract breeders are not doing everything right.. missing clearances here and there...

 

[tippykayak]

There are a bunch of co-ownership relationships that personally don't interest me but are practiced by ethical and influential breeders. I can't comment on the particulars you mention, since they wouldn't appeal to me either, but I know a number of people who are the primary owners but give the dog back to the breeder for breeding and/or showing for relatively brief intervals.

It may be a way to be part of a wonderful dog's career without taking on the extreme expense of showing and breeding, and there may be long-term parts of the contract that state that the dog's full ownership reverts to you after one or two litters, or after a CH title, or something along those lines.

If you wanted to get started as a breeder or simply wanted to be responsible for an awesome dog, these co-ownership arrangements may offer you a way to get your foot in the door.

On the other hand, there seem to be breeders who use these arrangements simply to produce more litters without increasing their overhead. However, it should be pretty easy to tell the difference between a great co-ownership and a uterus-for-rent. In a good one, all dogs would be cleared, and most or all dogs would be titled or working on titles.

Again, I have no idea what specific situation you're talking about, so I can't comment, but I've seen co-ownership go both ways.

 

[Sally's Mom]

Tippy, Co-ownership does not equal boarding contract. When I bought Cookie on a co-ownership all monetary issues were mine.. showing, clearances, stud fee, etc, the deal was to give her breeder first pick or money. Ususaly with "boarding contracts" i.e. pimping out your bitch(in most situations), the owner is the breeder who gets to to breed the bitch X number of times at which point the boarding home owns the animal. Sometimes, the boarding home pays for the privilege of obtaining the prospective breeding animal. Do not get me started!

 

[Megora]

Hmmm... I think I know a very nice and responsible breeder who does this sometimes. I believe the idea behind it is she will place the dog permanently with the people after the dog is retired. Living with a family from day one might be easier for the dog than if she were living with the breeder for the first five years of her life and then have to be uprooted and sent to live with strangers.

As Janice described above - the female lives with the family. And she is essentially THEIR dog, except she goes back to the breeder during heats and when she is bred.

 

[LibertyME]

My favorite is "guardian home"... :doh:
You guard these ovaries so I can make money off the puppies from said ovaries...

If your beloved golden dies in whelp...ooops! :doh:
If your beloved golden requires major surgery to save her life becuase of a breeding that I require in our contract - you'll be responsible for the surgery or I'll put her to sleep... :doh:
If I decide to fly your beloved golden to be bred and she dies or is injured... ooops... :doh:

 

[Sally's Mom]

And it's one thing if it is a couple of dogs/bitches. But when the numbers are in the double digits what does that say?

 

[Sally's Mom]

Mary, I am with you, but call it what they will: guardian home, boarding contract, etc... These agreements IMO happen so people who cannot house all animals for breeding at one time, can have animals that are available for breeding.

 

[Sally's Mom]

And I have to say that until this year, I have been so lucky with whelpings. Fortunately, the bitch(Tiki) was totally fine. But she might not have been.. I recognized when intervention was needed... When clients say(after they bred their dog and it is pregnant), "I don't want to lose her." I think to myself, then why did you breed her?

 

[Gwen]

I co-own my (3) intact golden boys with the breeder and am very happy with the arrangements.

Our contact is very limited and agreed to by both of us. My boys can be used for stud services for the breeder's bitches or an outside bitch who my breeder wants a puppy back.

As far as payments for costs incurred, the breeder has paid for all costs associated with clearances - eyes, hips, elbows & cardiac. The breeder has also paid for costs associated with obtaining championships.

I am responsible for any costs associated with day to day loving of my boys - food, vet, toys......

My boys live with me except for times when they're "needed". As the breeder lives approx 1 1/2 hours away, we meet 1/2 way, have lunch along with a nice chat and "exchange" my boy.

My boys LOVE going to their other "Mom's" home and are very excited to even see her. My boys become part of the breeder's home!

The co-ownership arrangement has worked great for us and I can see it continuing to work as my breeder is ethical and I agree 200% with her breeding practices.

 

[Megora]

The breeder I'm thinking of.... I only know her through dog class and chit-chatting with her there. I could be wrong here, but I think it's because she and her husband own 8 dogs, half or more who are seniors or getting up there in age. I believe she breeds to improve on or strengthen her program. Which means that when she breeds and sees a puppy she likes, she keeps it.... and so on. She wasn't the one who said this, but another breeder said something to the effect that "you can't keep them all". I think they mainly don't want to have all these dogs sitting at home and dealing with neglect (left home, not getting special attention or love, etc).

So I don't believe it's always about having 5+ females in a breeding program and not having to pay for a kennel license. Although I DO know of people who do this.

 

[tippykayak]

Tippy, Co-ownership does not equal boarding contract.

Absolutely. I was just generalizing that there are many kinds of shared ownership situations, not all of which are exploitative of the dog or the owner.

 

[Sally's Mom]

Ok, let me throw this out there, if you see a website with photos of 20 or more bitches and then links to more bitches, what does everyone think? Good family home OR a way to make money???

 

[lgnutah]

I didn't read the "other thread" you referred to OP, so I will just comment on your original question-why would someone get a puppy knowing they will fall in love with it, but then the breeder has the right to take it any time to breed it or take it to shows, etc.
I guess this is a similar situation to the guide dogs who are placed with families for their first year. The family knows the dog may leave them after that first year (if it ends up passing all the screens that are done then) so it must be equally hard in that situation.
And, what about people who foster dogs? They probably sometimes fall in love with the dogs they foster, but must give the dogs up to a forever home.

 

[Megora]

Ok, let me throw this out there, if you see a website with photos of 20 or more bitches and then links to more bitches, what does everyone think? Good family home OR a way to make money???

Puppy mill.

My guy came from a "commercial breeder" with a kennel license, but even they only have 5 females.

 

[GoldenSail]

I don't know what to think....but I understand to have an established breeding program you need many dogs not just one or two and that there are often city limits on how many dogs you can own. As far as quality...well you might have more quality if you have more options as opposed to being stuck with the one pup you picked that didn't turn out. So I think it can be done responsibly but like anything else make sure you check into it carefully and agree to the terms.

 

[LibertyME]

To me it is not the falling in love with part - one can fall in love with a dog you do not own.....having raised dogs for others..Ive gone into it knowing on day one that these dogs were not mine...that didnt stop me from getting attached.

But to raise them, love them, pay for their food, vet care etc.etc. and know that they wont legally 'be mine' until they have produce 6,000-30,000+ dollars for the other party is a teeny-tiny bit off putting....

 

[Megora]

But to raise them, love them, pay for their food, vet care etc.etc. and know that they wont legally 'be mine' until they have produce 6,000-30,000+ dollars for the other party is a teeny-tiny bit off putting....

If it is specifically about money for the breeder, then I agree that would be off putting.

 

[Sally's Mom]

Cookie was the first dog I entered into a co ownership with.. it was clear, cut ,etc. I paid $900 for her up front..if when she turned 2 and she got her clearances, then from the first litter (and only the first litter), Cookie's breeder would get money for a pup or get a pup. So all told, Cookie cost $1800. I paid for all clearances and upkeep. The 3 dogs I co-own, I would never take away from their owners. I am enthusiastic that these owners will train their dogs and show their dogs and keep me posted. If at some point, these dogs are breedable and there are pups, then perhaps, I will benefit(with a pup). Unlike Cookie's co=ownership where I paid money, I asked for no compensation from these owners.