Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

Nipping and Other Annoying Behaviors-help!

4K views 39 replies 14 participants last post by  LaurJen 
#1 ·
Augie has started some annoying behaviors (he's about 4.5 months old now) and I need advice on how to deal with them. I apologize in advance for writing a novel, but I want to give as much info as possible.

By way of background, we got him at 7 weeks and tried to do everything correctly right from the beginning. We bought him from a reputable breeder whose parents had the most wonderful temperaments. He's had to work for anything he's gotten (example: sit-stay before he can eat). We discouraged play biting. He spent the entire summer being socialized with dozens and dozens of kids, as well as our own. He is not food/toy/bone possessive.

I'm home with him all day. We go for walks, we go to the park, we play, I take him to the pet store, he started obedience classes, we practice our commands. He is a doll! He is friendly and non-aggressive with every person and dog we meet. I take him to pick up my daughter at school and he will sit and not break position (even though he is excited) as the kids file past him. He'll even sit as a whole crowd gathers around to pet him. Everywhere we go people remark on how well-trained he is. He is well-exercised and not bored.

So what's the problem?

About a month or so ago, Augie started nipping at our clothes--pulling at a sleeve or pants leg. He mostly did it when he was excited and/or wanted to play. We of course discouraged it and he would respond nicely to the "drop it" command. In the past week, this behavior has escalated and it only happens when my husband comes home from work or has the day off..

The nipping of the clothes has gotten worse and more aggressive. He won't stop it when you tell him not to, and will only come back at you harder. (For the record, it's not "viciousness"--he thinks he's playing). The only thing that gets him to stop is to tether him in the kitchen for a "time out."

Friday night was the worst behavior I've ever seen. A dog who was the sweetest, most obedient thing all day turned into a psycho dog when my husband got home. His clothes nipping (and he nips at both of us) was accompanied by snapping. Snapping! He was doing it in the air, not "at" my husband, but that's all the same in my book. I think my jaw practically dropped on the ground when I saw this. He got a correction, and a time out. He then proceeded to jump on the couch. He has never been allowed on the couch nor made any attempt to do so before, but there he was. Even more disturbing, he wouldn't get off when I told him to. I had to physically pick him up and move him. He then ran behind the couch and in literally two seconds, ripped a hole in our nice carpet.

I was so shocked by this. Snapping, nipping, not listening, ripping the carpet?? What the heck?? Saturday was no better. He basically spent his whole indoor time in time outs, because whenever he was let off he'd either jump on the couch, bite us, or return to the hole he had made in the carpet. And I mean continuously do these things, like he was possessed. I never even had a toddler who would act like this!

So please, if you can, offer some insights and suggestions. I'd be especially interested in hearing if others have gone through the same thing. We just can't figure out what to do. Is tethering him in the kitchen appropriate? His crate is upstairs, and only used for sleeping. (We don't tether him and then leave. We are right there. But he has to be restrained somehow because he's biting us and it hurts.) Why is he doing this and what does it have to do with my husband being home? My husband is a perfectly nice guy who adores Augie! He has never hit or abused our pup in any way, shape, or form. He doesn't play tug-of-war, wrestling, or other dominant-aggressive games with the dog, either.

Thanks for your help!
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I've been told it's a dominance issue. We have the same problem with Tinkerbell who is 5 months. For her it is especially my 10 year old daughter and my mother. half of my daughter's clothes have holes in them from this.

Just this weekend we go the bitter appls spray back out. We ddin't have much luck with it before but ti works now! we spray it on feet, pant legs, hands, and occasionally in her mouth. It has helped a lot this weekend. We have also done timeouts in another room. Not much success there.

I've also heard that they will sometimes go backwards at certain ages.

This is our first dog. So I'm no expert, but you are not alone.
 
#3 ·
OK well first of all it's very clear the dog sees DH as a playmate, and instigator, most likely, of previous rough play, and clearly someone whose presence is exciting and fun.

The bad day sounds like a wild, excited, bored puppy. He needed to get outside and run and play. This age they leave the fat fluffy stage and become teenage puppies.

While I am all for positive training, especially for obedience, there's NO WAY IN the world I would have tolerated this. If my puppy grabbed my shirt and ripped it, I'd have him by the scruff, give him a gentle but firm shake and growl NO!!!!!!!!! NO WAY! BTW he never has... I play tug with him often with his rope toy and he knows that is for playing tug, and no other time.

Don't start with a mild "no no" and work up to scruffing the dog when you're about to lose your mind. An effective correction given right away the first time usually does the trick in getting rid of the behavior before it becomes a problem. Building up to a correction just teaches the dog he can ignore you.

I don't mean hurt the dog or terrify him. Scruffing GENTLY (and NEVER lift the dog off the ground!) is something dogs do to one another, and something they understand. Hitting (not that you would ever hit him anyway) is a human behavior and is not effective in dog training.

My dogs are allowed on the furniture, but they get off when told (ie so I can make the bed- it's hard to make a bed with a Russian Wolfhound, a Whippet, a few Greyhounds, etc spread out on it like concrete pancakes). It's a normal thing for the dog to get hyped up and try jumping on the sofa. It's not necessarily a challenge. If he's never tried it, he doesn't know it's "bad" until he's taught that it is off limits.

It sounds like you're doing a pretty great job with him- I'm not saying you're not. But as they enter this new stage of growth, they do get more active, more demanding, and more likely to test their boundaries. Don't think toddler- think middle schooler. Think wolf too- the sweetest Golden Retriever alive is still a dog, asked to live in a human society with human rules.

It's not about dominance. I think that word is overused and over worried about. But it is about what is and is not acceptable in your relationship with the dog.

DH needs training too. Men I have no advice for dealing with. I long ago gave up on them LOL

I highly suggest Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash, even though she wouldn't agree with my scruffing the dog most likely. She is a very wise woman. I agree with a lot of what she says.
 
#4 ·
Augie loves the taste of Bitter Apple and Bitter Yuck, so no luck there. I hope someone has some good answers for us. I was so unnerved by his behavior that I was all set to make an appointment with a behaviorist at
$80/hour. I'm willing to do whatever it takes, but I don't know what that would be. I've searched online, but I can't find anything that addresses nipping in a dog this age. It's different than young puppy play-biting.
 
#5 ·
PS another suggestion is get the pups out with a friend's dog, puppies from your puppy obedience class, or the dog park, so they CAN play this way with other DOGS, where it is appropriate and normal. Other dogs teach one another boundaries, bite inhibition, etc too. And have faith- they do outgrow this.
 
#6 ·
LOL my little freak loves Bitter Apple too. I haven't had any problems with him BUT I have raised MANY puppies. My first puppy I thought I'd lose my mind too (and I was only 10 years old and doing it on my own with my copy of some really awful old fashioned training manuel). It DOES get better, and you'll look back and not even be able to imagine your dog was ever such a monster ;)

Don't worry about doing everything perfect, b/c there's no such thing. Most people don't put a 10th into their dogs in a decade what you probably have already in two and a half months.
 
#7 ·
If Augie likes your husband as much as Bailey likes mine, I am sure he is super excited to have him home.......Not everyone would agree with this, but we used to take our puppy and pin him down on his side on the ground until he "gave up" and collapsed. My son and my husband had to do this several times before he realized that they were serious. Does your husband practice the obedience commands with him, or are you the only pack leader? We also found that the whole family had to practice the commands with him or he didn't listen to everyone. I hated that stage with Boomer and am not looking forward to it with Bailey.....
 
#8 ·
AquaClaraCanines said:
OK well first of all it's very clear the dog sees DH as a playmate, and instigator, most likely, of previous rough play, and clearly someone whose presence is exciting and fun.
The bad day sounds like a wild, excited, bored puppy. He needed to get outside and run and play. This age they leave the fat fluffy stage and become teenage puppies.
While I am all for positive training, especially for obedience, there's NO WAY IN the world I would have tolerated this. If my puppy grabbed my shirt and ripped it, I'd have him by the scruff, give him a gentle but firm shake and growl NO!!!!!!!!! NO WAY! BTW he never has... I play tug with him often with his rope toy and he knows that is for playing tug, and no other time.
Don't start with a mild "no no" and work up to scruffing the dog when you're about to lose your mind. An effective correction given right away the first time usually does the trick in getting rid of the behavior before it becomes a problem. Building up to a correction just teaches the dog he can ignore you.
I don't mean hurt the dog or terrify him. Scruffing GENTLY (and NEVER lift the dog off the ground!) is something dogs do to one another, and something they understand. Hitting (not that you would ever hit him anyway) is a human behavior and is not effective in dog training.
My dogs are allowed on the furniture, but they get off when told (ie so I can make the bed- it's hard to make a bed with a Russian Wolfhound, a Whippet, a few Greyhounds, etc spread out on it like concrete pancakes). It's a normal thing for the dog to get hyped up and try jumping on the sofa. It's not necessarily a challenge. If he's never tried it, he doesn't know it's "bad" until he's taught that it is off limits.
It sounds like you're doing a pretty great job with him- I'm not saying you're not. But as they enter this new stage of growth, they do get more active, more demanding, and more likely to test their boundaries. Don't think toddler- think middle schooler. Think wolf too- the sweetest Golden Retriever alive is still a dog, asked to live in a human society with human rules.
It's not about dominance. I think that word is overused and over worried about. But it is about what is and is not acceptable in your relationship with the dog.
DH needs training too. Men I have no advice for dealing with. I long ago gave up on them LOL
I highly suggest Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash, even though she wouldn't agree with my scruffing the dog most likely. She is a very wise woman. I agree with a lot of what she says.
Thanks for your advice :) I tried to make it clear that this is not a bored dog. Even on his "bad" day, he got plenty of outside exercise. And when he was inside, we were all here, ready and willing to play with him. But when any of us tried to play with him, he'd drop his toy in favor of nipping at us. Or he'd jump on the couch or rip the carpet.

Grabbing him by the scruff? Did that from the very first nip. He doesn't care. Really! I've never been timid about giving a correction. Of course I don't hit or scream, but I mean business.

Now... he is extremmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmely food motivated--could I use that to my advantage? He will stop (temporarily) if he sees a treat, but I don't want to set up a situation where he thinks if he nips or jumps on the couch he's going to be rewarded with a cookie.

This is very vexing :confused:
 
#9 ·
AquaClaraCanines said:
LOL my little freak loves Bitter Apple too. I haven't had any problems with him BUT I have raised MANY puppies. My first puppy I thought I'd lose my mind too (and I was only 10 years old and doing it on my own with my copy of some really awful old fashioned training manuel). It DOES get better, and you'll look back and not even be able to imagine your dog was ever such a monster ;)
Don't worry about doing everything perfect, b/c there's no such thing. Most people don't put a 10th into their dogs in a decade what you probably have already in two and a half months.
Thanks, that makes me feel better :)
 
#10 ·
OK, I had to make sure. I'm not there. And many dogs really just don't get enough exercise- always error on the side of caution there.

I am cautious bringing up corrections too, in this modern day and age where many people think they are wrong.

FOOD, yes... you can *definitely* use food to your advantage. Set him up to succeed and THEN reward. The mistakes come when people lure the dog off the sofa, then feed him (for example).

The dog has to have
 
#12 ·
Baileysmom said:
If Augie likes your husband as much as Bailey likes mine, I am sure he is super excited to have him home.......Not everyone would agree with this, but we used to take our puppy and pin him down on his side on the ground until he "gave up" and collapsed. My son and my husband had to do this several times before he realized that they were serious. Does your husband practice the obedience commands with him, or are you the only pack leader? We also found that the whole family had to practice the commands with him or he didn't listen to everyone. I hated that stage with Boomer and am not looking forward to it with Bailey.....
We've actually used the submissive pinning fairly often from when Augie was young, when he is being particularly obnoxious. He submits immediately. I see it more as a signal to him like, whoa, cut it out now.

Yes, everyone does the obedience training, over and over. My kids are actually the ones who taught him most of them :) He listens so well it amazes me sometimes. (Well, except when I tell him to get off the couch, lol).
 
#13 · (Edited)
I think Augie sees your family members as his pack and is acting out like any youngster is looking for a good time. He's a kid! We got Tabitha at 9 months and she was a lot like Augie. My wife and I were the only people in her world. I felt badly for her and played hard with her. My bad! She started nipping at my clothes, ankles, shoes, etc. etc. But she had to have her excerise and her fun. She was playing with my wife one day and ran into her so hard that she fractured my wife's leg! We started taking Tabitha to doggy day care and that helped a lot - for a couple of days. I could tell Tabitha loved to play and she loved other dogs, so we found another rescue dog about a month ago (Magic) and, you know what? - all the issues have gone away. Tabitha is now a well behaved - and daily TIRED - sweetie! She and Magic do all the doggie play and we get all the respect and love as pack leaders.

Hang in there with Augie - I think it is a young dog thing and if you guys continue to assert your authority as pack leaders, one day he'll "just get it" and your world will be golden.
 
#14 ·
snapping at the air???..so what..
tearing clothes?.. nope.. not acceptable and should be shown the error of his ways immediately and sternly....
better to just have it out than spend a lifetime nagging.. kinda like marriage..
now..don't get this wrong, but in reading your letter I kinda get the feeling that the pup has to play in a very restricted way... maybe you are restricting too much..sometimes they just gotta run and be puppies.. biting sticks and other puppies... if you are just walking on heel and not letting him run on his own some... he appears to be a pretty well trained and good minding dog....but sometimes they need out from under that canopy of control.....
i always take my pups for long in-the-country walks.. let em run and roll in bad stuff and fight with sticks and chase squirrels.. i always carry a little bag of hot dog bits and i call them to me and give them a treat then release them once again to tear up the country...
 
#15 ·
I'm with Greg. Augie's playing is instinctive, and it's perfectly normal for his age. It's not acceptable but it's normal.

Giving him an acceptable outlet such as another dog to play with could help a lot. Doggie daycare, or play dates with other dogs, may help considerably.

Another thing that helped when Brandy went through this was to immediately turn our backs on her. Yes, she would try to nip at the backs of our clothes. But she soon grew bored because she wasn't getting the response she wanted.
 
#16 ·
goldencrazy said:
I think Augie sees your family members as his pack and is acting out like any youngster is looking for a good time. He's a kid! We got Tabitha at 9 months and she was a lot like Augie. My wife and I were the only people in her world. I felt badly for her and played hard with her. My bad! She started nipping at my clothes, ankles, shoes, etc. etc. But she had to have her excerise and her fun. She was playing with my wife one day and ran into her so hard that she fractured my wife's leg! We started taking Tabitha to doggy day care and that helped a lot - for a couple of days. I could tell Tabitha loved to play and she loved other dogs, so we found another rescue dog about a month ago (Magic) and, you know what? - all the issues have gone away. Tabitha is now a well behaved - and daily TIRED - sweetie! She and Magic do all the doggie play and we get all the respect and love as pack leaders.
Hang in there with Augie - I think it is a young dog thing and if you guys continue to assert your authority as pack leaders, one day he'll "just get it" and your world will be golden.
You guys are all making me feel better, thanks :)
 
#17 ·
greg bell said:
snapping at the air???..so what.
It nearly gave me a heart attack! LOL I was like, did he just SNAP????

greg bell said:
tearing clothes?.. nope.. not acceptable and should be shown the error of his ways immediately and sternly....
better to just have it out than spend a lifetime nagging.. kinda like marriage..
now..don't get this wrong, but in reading your letter I kinda get the feeling that the pup has to play in a very restricted way... maybe you are restricting too much..sometimes they just gotta run and be puppies.. biting sticks and other puppies... if you are just walking on heel and not letting him run on his own some... he appears to be a pretty well trained and good minding dog....but sometimes they need out from under that canopy of control.....
i always take my pups for long in-the-country walks.. let em run and roll in bad stuff and fight with sticks and chase squirrels.. i always carry a little bag of hot dog bits and i call them to me and give them a treat then release them once again to tear up the country...
I think you're right. I take him lots of places, but since he is not good at all at recall outside, he remains on leash. For instance, yesterday we went hiking in a state park, but no way could I just let him go, unless I wanted a lost dog. I think he had a pretty good time, but still, he wasn't running through the park. Thanks for the suggestions :) I'll have to work harder on his recall.
 
#18 ·
Brandy's Mom said:
I'm with Greg. Augie's playing is instinctive, and it's perfectly normal for his age. It's not acceptable but it's normal.

Giving him an acceptable outlet such as another dog to play with could help a lot. Doggie daycare, or play dates with other dogs, may help considerably.
Would it be better to have a play date with a dog who is bigger and older? The dogs in his puppy class are all younger and about the size of his head. He is very very gentle with them... about all he does is rub his head on them. I know that's not really the type of playing he needs.

I've looked into doggy daycare, and they don't take unneutered dogs over the age of 6 months. Augie won't be getting fixed until he is fully grown, so that about kills that option.
 
#19 ·
Yeah, if you can find dogs his size or larger then you won't be as worried about them going at it. Brandy's favorite playmates (in addition to Jenna) are an Australian Shepherd and an Afghan. Both are under two years old.
 
#20 ·
Lucky did this with me, and me only at about that age and correction (timeout) worked wonders. The bitter apple, alpha roll....didn't work for us. All that made him more excited. Once he saw that he couldn't get a way with it, it stopped completely.

If you don't want to use the crate (i did with no ill effects), then perhaps you can tether him with a shorter tether where he can't spend his moments chewing your furniture. Something that calms him down. I found that Lucky just needed to calm down, and he pretty quickly gained self control.
 
#21 ·
Lucky's mom said:
Lucky did this with me, and me only at about that age and correction (timeout) worked wonders. The bitter apple, alpha roll....didn't work for us. All that made him more excited. Once he saw that he couldn't get a way with it, it stopped completely.

If you don't want to use the crate (i did with no ill effects), then perhaps you can tether him with a shorter tether where he can't spend his moments chewing your furniture. Something that calms him down. I found that Lucky just needed to calm down, and he pretty quickly gained self control.
I'm hoping the tethering time-out works. I give him a chance to stop his biting, if he doesn't, he gets tethered to a kitchen chair. He always calms right down and goes to sleep. But I don't know if he's "getting it" or he's wondering why in the world he sometimes finds himself in the kitchen.
 
#23 ·
LaurJen said:
I'm hoping the tethering time-out works. I give him a chance to stop his biting, if he doesn't, he gets tethered to a kitchen chair. He always calms right down and goes to sleep. But I don't know if he's "getting it" or he's wondering why in the world he sometimes finds himself in the kitchen.
He'll start getting it. I know what you mean about sleeping. But I don't think its punishment as much as getting him out of the cycle or habit.

I found out with Lucky, that timing was everything. I started putting him in timeout with the first nip. The reason why is because it was a behavior that occurred at the same time ....from 7 til the kids were in bed. And this was very inappropriate behavior from the first. It wasn't the normal mouthy play. And it wasn't like he worked up to it. I felt like it was domination issue. That was the feeling I got.

I think all puppies "show there oats" so to speak but they may be different about how they do it.
 
#24 ·
With Augie I don't feel like it's a domination issue--it's more like inappropriate playing. But it hurts and he doesn't knock it off when he's told to. Some of the other behaviors, like jumping up on the couch over and over, are definitely him testing his limits. The fact that he started doing all of these things on the same night is what threw me!
 
#25 ·
AuntCare said:
Laurjen,

Augie is being completely normal in his play. The cooler weather is also making him more energetic. Dogs love this weather. Take a look at our website at www.annarbordog.com for a possible place to take hime to play with other well tempered dogs. I let my Selli chew on me, but I find she does it less when she has another dog to chew on.
Wow thanks for that! I'll PM you :)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top