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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi-
We decided to neuter our boy when he turns 18 months. I made the appt for a date in April and then discovered he will only be 17 months at the time of surgery.
Should I change the surgery to May so he is 18 months?
 

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Ok. I'm going to go there. Again.
What does growth plate dates have to do with neuter/spay - i.e. is there correlation (let alone causation) here?
Does anyone have actual data?
There are so many questions:
If early S/N supposedly creates taller animals, is that bad?
Are they less heathy?
Do they have shorter lives?
Does early S/N prevent future heath issues?
Reduction in pyometra?
Reduction in testicular cancer?
Reduction in fighting or antisocial behaviour linked to hormone cycles?
Reduction in unplanned litters and associated health issues?
I'm still waiting for proper scientific, peer reviewed evidence that delaying spay/neuter has a detrimental health effect. I've been asking for literally years.
Anyone?
Where is the data?
 

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I'm sure you can find the data for some parts of your questions if you look for it- obviously pyometra is reduced without a uterus. As long as all ovarian tissue is removed, stump shouldn't be a problem. With a uterus, half of all girls will get a pyo eventually.
Clearly without testicles, testicular cancer isn't an issue. There's no way to compare cancer rates to an animal without the parts.
Taller animals- when a set of genes are made to make a particular conformation and suddenly when our society decides they should be early altered, the genes don't know that. I did read an article in some veterinary publication about 15 years ago that actually correlated dysplasia with early neuters but I don't remember now where that was because I was satisfied it was well-reviewed and to my mind the controls and variables were there.
Really, other than the dysplasia piece, I don't see how anyone could do a real study- there are not enough interested owners or researchers to do the rest of it. How would a researcher have enough of a well-controlled sample to even study health or lifespan? Too much else plays into it. I think to my satisfaction it has been shown early altering is detrimental.
 

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The study is linked in the article
 

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Ok. I'm going to go there. Again.
What does growth plate dates have to do with neuter/spay - i.e. is there correlation (let alone causation) here?
Does anyone have actual data?
There are so many questions:
If early S/N supposedly creates taller animals, is that bad?
Are they less heathy?
Do they have shorter lives?
Does early S/N prevent future heath issues?
Reduction in pyometra?
Reduction in testicular cancer?
Reduction in fighting or antisocial behaviour linked to hormone cycles?
Reduction in unplanned litters and associated health issues?
I'm still waiting for proper scientific, peer reviewed evidence that delaying spay/neuter has a detrimental health effect. I've been asking for literally years.
Anyone?
Where is the data?

For your reading pleasure: Research on the Effects of Spaying and Neutering - Avidog University
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm sure you can find the data for some parts of your questions if you look for it- obviously pyometra is reduced without a uterus. As long as all ovarian tissue is removed, stump shouldn't be a problem. With a uterus, half of all girls will get a pyo eventually.
Clearly without testicles, testicular cancer isn't an issue. There's no way to compare cancer rates to an animal without the parts.
Taller animals- when a set of genes are made to make a particular conformation and suddenly when our society decides they should be early altered, the genes don't know that. I did read an article in some veterinary publication about 15 years ago that actually correlated dysplasia with early neuters but I don't remember now where that was because I was satisfied it was well-reviewed and to my mind the controls and variables were there.
Really, other than the dysplasia piece, I don't see how anyone could do a real study- there are not enough interested owners or researchers to do the rest of it. How would a researcher have enough of a well-controlled sample to even study health or lifespan? Too much else plays into it. I think to my satisfaction it has been shown early altering is detrimental.
So do you consider 17 months early? Trying to decide what I should do-
 

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So do you consider 17 months early? Trying to decide what I should do-
You will find plenty of literature that addresses the downsides of early neuter (spay is similar, but has different specifics), especially in large breed dogs. In my readings, I have seen "early neuter" used to reference "before 12 months", "before the growth plates close", and "before 24 months". However, it seems like the most common usage is in the "before 12 months" context.

I have seen increasing opinions that males should, unless there is a specific need, be left intact. There is, increasingly, discussion about the potential health benefits associated with the hormones (although the discussion is slightly different for females).

After all the advice and research, the bottom line is "why do you want to neuter your dog?" We have a female, but I knew we were going to have her spayed. The rationale may not be something everyone agrees with, but this provided a framework within which I could research "when?" If you have not come to grips with your "why?", you're going to have a heck-of-a-time trying to decide "when?"
 

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Ok. I'm going to go there. Again.
What does growth plate dates have to do with neuter/spay - i.e. is there correlation (let alone causation) here?
Does anyone have actual data?
There are so many questions:
If early S/N supposedly creates taller animals, is that bad?
Are they less heathy?
Do they have shorter lives?
Does early S/N prevent future heath issues?
Reduction in pyometra?
Reduction in testicular cancer?
Reduction in fighting or antisocial behaviour linked to hormone cycles?
Reduction in unplanned litters and associated health issues?
I'm still waiting for proper scientific, peer reviewed evidence that delaying spay/neuter has a detrimental health effect. I've been asking for literally years.
Anyone?
Where is the data?
[/QU
Ok. I'm going to go there. Again.
What does growth plate dates have to do with neuter/spay - i.e. is there correlation (let alone causation) here?
Does anyone have actual data?
There are so many questions:
If early S/N supposedly creates taller animals, is that bad?
Are they less heathy?
Do they have shorter lives?
Does early S/N prevent future heath issues?
Reduction in pyometra?
Reduction in testicular cancer?
Reduction in fighting or antisocial behaviour linked to hormone cycles?
Reduction in unplanned litters and associated health issues?
I'm still waiting for proper scientific, peer reviewed evidence that delaying spay/neuter has a detrimental health effect. I've been asking for literally years.
Anyone?
Where is the data?
Age at gonadectomy and risk of overweight/obesity and orthopedic injury in a cohort of Golden Retrievers (plos.org)

I think that further research should bring up more studies. I did this quickly.
 

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Ok. I'm going to go there. Again.
What does growth plate dates have to do with neuter/spay - i.e. is there correlation (let alone causation) here?
Does anyone have actual data?
There are so many questions:
If early S/N supposedly creates taller animals, is that bad?
Are they less heathy?
Do they have shorter lives?
Does early S/N prevent future heath issues?
Reduction in pyometra?
Reduction in testicular cancer?
Reduction in fighting or antisocial behaviour linked to hormone cycles?
Reduction in unplanned litters and associated health issues?
I'm still waiting for proper scientific, peer reviewed evidence that delaying spay/neuter has a detrimental health effect. I've been asking for literally years.
Anyone?
Where is the data?
Here ya go...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You will find plenty of literature that addresses the downsides of early neuter (spay is similar, but has different specifics), especially in large breed dogs. In my readings, I have seen "early neuter" used to reference "before 12 months", "before the growth plates close", and "before 24 months". However, it seems like the most common usage is in the "before 12 months" context.

I have seen increasing opinions that males should, unless there is a specific need, be left intact. There is, increasingly, discussion about the potential health benefits associated with the hormones (although the discussion is slightly different for females).

After all the advice and research, the bottom line is "why do you want to neuter your dog?" We have a female, but I knew we were going to have her spayed. The rationale may not be something everyone agrees with, but this provided a framework within which I could research "when?" If you have not come to grips with your "why?", you're going to have a heck-of-a-time trying to decide "when?"
Thanks for your reply!
I definitely have my “why’s” figured out😊
 

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So do you consider 17 months early? Trying to decide what I should do-
Me personally? Depending on how responsible the owner is, I see no good reason to neuter boys UNLESS they have prostate issues, and to know that, vet needs to do digital exam at least yearly.
 

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Thanks for your reply!
I definitely have my “why’s” figured out😊
Ok. I'm going to go there. Again.
What does growth plate dates have to do with neuter/spay - i.e. is there correlation (let alone causation) here?
Does anyone have actual data?
There are so many questions:
If early S/N supposedly creates taller animals, is that bad?
Are they less heathy?
Do they have shorter lives?
Does early S/N prevent future heath issues?
Reduction in pyometra?
Reduction in testicular cancer?
Reduction in fighting or antisocial behaviour linked to hormone cycles?
Reduction in unplanned litters and associated health issues?
I'm still waiting for proper scientific, peer reviewed evidence that delaying spay/neuter has a detrimental health effect. I've been asking for literally years.
Anyone?
Where is the data?
This topic has been discussed extensively on the forum. I and so cal had a couple posts running 2 or 3 months ago and the very knowledgeable people in here kindly posted research science journal articles that answered your questions. The research has been done. You should still be able to access those posts and therefore the science papers and links to webpages that answer your questions.
I have a postgraduate research Doctorate so utilised that to go through the quantitative data studies and surmised it was best to leave our Teddy intact. But anyone can read and understand them, I just enjoyed geeking out on the quantitative statistics.
However, it helps that he doesn’t hump anything, has come across bitches in heat and has so no interest in them! I might have come to a different conclusion if he had a strong humping or sex drive. But based on the extensive research evidence I wouldn’t have neutered him before 2 years of age.
 
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