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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,


Keeping it short. Bottomline, we love goldens and we've gone through screening breeders and making sure they're reputable take care of the dogs etc. And also have a good OFA history, and data on K9data about lineage etc.


Now we're down to two specific breeders and need help choosing two.
Since everyone asks for specific information about the parents. I'll post the K9data of both parents of the litters we're aiming for of both the breeders. It would be great if you can help us choose and better if you find out something wrong that we missed. (Since we're not the experts it's easy to miss things)


Breeder1:
https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp...6jggLjV3iTa1QwPqAMliVHm3ugpA9Y2004oCSXaSbXaoc
with
Pedigree: Semper Cooper's Mulligan MH QA2 *** CCA


Breeder2:
https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=663769
with
Pedigree: Int'l CH Gold-Rush Ttr Laddie Of Sunnybrook CCA


Any help suggestion or any shoutout is really helpful.
Please help us make a good decision that'll make sure we get a health golden that we can cherish.




Again, thanks a bunch as this would not have been possible without this community.
 

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I'd imagine litter 1 could need a job- BUT it would be the one I would take from regardless.
Litter 2 strikes me as unremarkable. Lucy has a sib who appears to have failed hips and one grandparent who appears to have as well. And one grandparent w no clearances on OFA. And some half sibs on sire side (which then w the lack on the maternal grandparent means both sides of her pedigree have fails or nothing at all there). And then, why breed to Laddie? His OFA record shows half his grandparents w nothing, his dam w no clearances (so his whole maternal side is an unknown) and his sire seems to have failed elbows.
As well as the other things missing that one seems like nothing there to indicate there will be health or type.

So litter 1- the one who might need a job to stay out of trouble- the sire's OFA record is full and complete. The couple of elbows missing in half sibs his sire's side were both out of same dam. That bitch is lacking an elbow clearance so it's clearly one of those 'exceptions' made that resulted in fails. And any missing elbows other than those were before elbows were a part of the CoE so I don't usually count those unless I can see a clear path of reasoning.
The dam of litter 1 has one sib who appears to have failed elbows and the maternal granddam also appears to have failed elbows. I didn't go back to see if I could explain or understand that. I would think this litter of the two would be the safer health choice as well as the more structurally correct just based on titles and the few photos I could see.
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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I really like the first pairing.

You have two wildly different breedings here. Makes me wonder how you narrowed it down to these two. Kind of like saying you've narrowed it down to two cars, a diesel Ford cargo van or a Tesla roadster. Different purposes, each. Different characteristics. Different experiences. So, what are you looking for in a puppy? What is your lifestyle like? Do you live on a farm or in a condo? Do you have little kids or are you elderly? Looking for a couch potato or a frisbee dog? Such wildly different breedings, I'd want to know about you and your lifestyle before recommending one.

The second litter looks like it is from a long line of pet dogs and back yard breeders. Lots of missing clearances, as Prism detailed.

But the first is a nice field breeding, with some wonderful field dogs behind it. I think this is a lovely breeding. Pay attention to Prism, as she is being serious when she says a puppy from this litter might need a job to stay out of trouble. Having this puppy in the house will be a different experience and energy than a puppy from the second litter.
 

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Puddles
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Just want you to understand when these wonderful breeders that answered your questions say litter #1 will need a job means. This is a field bred / performance dog. While every litter will have many different personalities these puppies were bred to work a job of some sort.

Expect them to be high energy, busy puppies. While I love the breeding you are going to need to be involved in training classes, lots of classes for about 2 yrs minimum. Do not expect them to be "lay by the fire" with the family sort of dogs. Do not expect them to outgrow the high energy... it's not a phase, it's in their DNA.

A good field/performance dog will have an off switch but only if they are properly exercised/trained and this doesn't mean a couple of 20 minute walks a day. These guys are being bred to run the fields for HOURS, every day.
So while this litter will do really great if you are into obedience, agility or field work they will not be happy just hanging out in the yard and can be very destructive if they don't get the exercise they need.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I really like the first pairing.

You have two wildly different breedings here. Makes me wonder how you narrowed it down to these two. Kind of like saying you've narrowed it down to two cars, a diesel Ford cargo van or a Tesla roadster. Different purposes, each. Different characteristics. Different experiences. So, what are you looking for in a puppy? What is your lifestyle like? Do you live on a farm or in a condo? Do you have little kids or are you elderly? Looking for a couch potato or a frisbee dog? Such wildly different breedings, I'd want to know about you and your lifestyle before recommending one.

The second litter looks like it is from a long line of pet dogs and back yard breeders. Lots of missing clearances, as Prism detailed.

But the first is a nice field breeding, with some wonderful field dogs behind it. I think this is a lovely breeding. Pay attention to Prism, as she is being serious when she says a puppy from this litter might need a job to stay out of trouble. Having this puppy in the house will be a different experience and energy than a puppy from the second litter.
To answer your questions.

So, what are you looking for in a puppy?
We’re looking for a family companion that is social, doesn’t have problem being outdoor with me and do well with other dogs and calms down when the required exercises are done. We’re definitely planning puppy classes followed by obedience training. Hadn’t thought it would be required for first two years but more like 1-1.5 years.
What is your lifestyle like?
We live in a single family home and both of us work. But since I own the buisness i can take my dog with me. But needless to say it’ll still be in an office with me. Just that I can step out whenever I want to, to take the dog out
Do you live on a farm or in a condo?
Its a single family home with a decent sized backyard so neither a farm not a condo :)
Do you have little kids or are you elderly?
Neither. We’re just a couple in late 20’s
Looking for a couch potato or a frisbee dog?
I would want to say a frisbee dog but i know i could be underestimating how much “frisbee” that dog would need haha. So I’ll say a mixture would be good.



Also, to mention how we stumbled upon these two breedings is because we found the first breeder and were happy with her. Met her. Her dogs and how she takes cares of them.
The second one came recommended from 2 friends who both have good dogs from there and they’re ~5 years old with no issues. So getting a pup from there means my pup would be related to my friends and the dogs obviously will hang out together alot.


Thanks for the help. Really appreciate the points.
 

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Maegan
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I briefly flipped through the pedigrees, and I also agree that breeding #1 is better quality, but the dog will need some sort of job. I'm personally of the opinion that you should never stop training your dog, but simple pet obedience classes are not necessary for 2 years. You would be taking the same class over and over at most facilities and both you and your dog will be bored. SO, if you go with Breeding #1, then I suggest doing puppy class (S.T.A.R. Puppy or equivalent), then a CGC class, and maybe a third class like CGCU, CGCA, or therapy dog class (they are great for learning impulse control - even if you don't want to do therapy). Then I recommend transitioning to a competition type class: competitive obedience, rally, agility, field, etc. Or heck, even a competitive frisbee class - yes they exist (google "disc dog seattle")! A puppy from breeding #1 would most likely thrive in any competition you might want to try. Plus, training for competition is just plain fun (to me anyway) and it will give the dog the job that it will crave. Who knows, you might catch the dog world bug!
 

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Maegan
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You can absolutely compete with limited registration! The dog in my sig pic is on limited registration and he's halfway to a Rally Champion title. :) sorry not sorry for the shameless brag. LOL

The only thing you can't do on limited registration is conformation, and that's because it's essentially an evaluation of breeding stock and dogs on limited registration are not supposed to be bred (and their offspring can't be registered if they are...).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I would also like to thank everyone else who provided their input and gave suggestions thanks.
We're going to re-evaluate and see what we going to do. There is no doubt first litter is better and awesome. But we'll also look up on the amount of effort required on a dog that required a "job".
Trying our best to not bite more than we can chew haha.
 

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I like the first one because there's more performance titles. I agree with the others though. The dog will need a job.
 

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You've been given great advice. All dogs are different, and each one requires a different level of exercise. My older guy, Duke, is a grandson to FC AFC Emberain Beau Geste. I love him, but he will run all day long. He is currently having some health issues, but at 9 is still a retrieving machine. He is not and has never been a couch potato. He does have an off switch but only after lots of exercise, and if you pull out a ball or a bumper he is right back ready to go no matter what. We always say he has the heart of a lion. We live on a farm and he is hunt trained. I can't imagine having him if we hadn't had a job in mind for him to do.
 

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Puddles
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While I think litter #1 is a better bred dog it's hard to recommend a performance litter to a rookie GR puppy owner. Any golden is going to provide plenty of energy and action to a new family without going high octane but honestly like to see 3 to 5 generations of OFA information behind a litter. But this is just my opinion. If you desire to follow in your friends steps and go with litter #2, get insurance just to be safe :) or find a conformation breeder with the health history just to increase your chances of a healthy puppy.

Read through some of the post in the last few weeks and see all the problems people are having with cancer at a young age or kidney failure or elbow dysplasia. Find a good breeder with dogs having a long healthy history to improve your odds. Pay a good breeder now or pay a vet later :)
 

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On a quick look, I much prefer breeding #1. We've had 4 Goldens from quite different breedings. For the first one, when we really knew nothing about Goldens except that they were supposed to be good family dogs, we stumbled on a puppy from what turned out to be a breeding much like your #1. The first couple of years were difficult, he was high energy and very mouthy. We took him to puppy class but gave him no other formal training. Notwithstanding a poor start we stuck with him and he turned out to be a member of the "best dog ever" club. He was always ready to go and participate in whatever we were doing. He was intelligent and athletic and could read people extremely well. He made each person think that they were the one he really loved. When he settled down (after about 3 years) he was an excellent house dog. We just loved having him despite the difficult start. I do regret not giving him formal training because I think he could have been a star at field, obedience or agility. He would have loved it and we would have loved doing it with him.

It's important to understand how different the pups from these two breedings are likely to be. If you feel that a pup from breeding #1 is likely to be too much for you, I'd continue looking.
 

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I would also like to thank everyone else who provided their input and gave suggestions thanks.
We're going to re-evaluate and see what we going to do. There is no doubt first litter is better and awesome. But we'll also look up on the amount of effort required on a dog that required a "job".
Trying our best to not bite more than we can chew haha.

I would suggest that you talk to the breeder of the first litter and be honest with her about the level of activity you'll be providing for your dog. She will be able to tell you whether or not these pups are suitable. As the owner of a dog from a performance litter, I can tell you that you will need to be diligent about providing not only physical activity but also mental stimulation. These dogs love to learn. However, my guy, who I would describe as moderate to high energy, happily spends his days in the office with me. It was challenging at first, but now that he's learned to settle, he will go to his bed and sleep until it's time to do something. I too am self-employed and I'm able to take him for long off-leash walks most days, to keep him fit and exercised. He's my agility partner, so we train with a coach one evening a week and practise a couple of additional evenings a week, and in winter, when the climate prevents us from walking quite so much, I add a weekly rally or competition obedience class to our schedule, just to keep him active. We have a large wooded yard and he takes his daily squirrel patrol duties seriously. We also do agility trials at least once a month. He's a good house-dog with a nice "off" switch, but needs quite a bit of interaction (tug games, impromptu training sessions, etc.) to function well.



If you take a pup from a performance litter, you need to remember that they were bred to work and need activity, but on the other hand, they are extremely trainable and a joy to work with.
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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One more note on the concept of the puppy having a job. I'll simply ask this: How much time do you spend at your job, even it it's just a part-time job? Dog jobs are like that, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
One more note on the concept of the puppy having a job. I'll simply ask this: How much time do you spend at your job, even it it's just a part-time job? Dog jobs are like that, too.
On average - 7-8 hours per weekday. With a flexibility of taking Work from home if and when required.
 

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My first reaction was - what two very, very different breedings.


Personally, I would take litter one, because I like super active, high energy, highly driven dogs that I can do hunt and tracking with. But to be honest, even I would worry that I might not be the right person for that much dog. Those are field dogs that need a good hard job.


Litter two looked unremarkable - probably way less energy - probably more of a medium energy family pet who may not need a job. Happy to play frisbee or ball for a little while, and have a snooze on the couch. Probably will produce fine dogs - but not what I would personally be looking for. So it really comes down to you - and you would have to be very honest about what you would want to do with your dog.
 
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I’ve mentioned that before too. We’re looking for a family companion. But we definitely don’t mind playing with the dog. Taking him or her to exercises and training. We regardless plan on doing ~2 years of training for the dog.

And i can from comments how 1st litter might come with too high energy. I’m worried that if i go with the 2nd litter I’ll be leaving a better healthy pup to go for a lesser litter.

Plus i plan on taking my dog to my Workplace where he will interact with other dogs and humans constantly. And from what I’ve been told that’s exhausting too. Right?
 

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I would go with litter 1--while I see some typical field breeders in the pedigree, I don't see anything that screams high drive field trial level breeding. What I do see is a history of owners doing something with their dogs which means you're more likely to get a pup that is smart & biddable. Goldens are a sporting breed & should be active & not lounging on the couch 24/7 that being said exercise & training beyond dumping a dog in the backyard should be reasonable.

Not every dog that competes in field or is born from a traditional field pedigree is going to be a high-drive, needs a constant outlet for the mind & body. Even with field titles on a dog, you still would need to see the dog run to understand what you're working with--I've seen Master Hunter titled dogs run that are slow & steady some of which took a number of passes beyond the minimum to title while I've also seen the opposite run--it seems if you're not familiar with field, one might assume all field bred dogs are high strung, need a job and exercise 24/7. It's simply a gross over generalization. On the flip side, I've seen "pretty" show dogs that are high strung as it can make for a flashy performance in the ring. This is where going to a breeder that understands dogs, has experience in dogs is important to best determine what home would be the best fit.
 
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