May 2023 Training

1750 Views 95 Replies 10 Participants Last post by DevWind, 4 d ago

AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · 16 d ago

I have missed logging my training & general thoughts so while I will try not to get too specific, I thought I might start logging again.

Please feel free to join with your training & trialing adventures in Dog Sports

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #21 · 15 d ago

Megora said:
I was talking to novice A people before that and uh.... rule of thumb is you go out there when you know what you are doing, the dog knows what he's doing and.... it's supposed to be tackle each exercise and flow between. If dog is throwing you some challenges, you find positives. The dog is still learning - especially if they are first time in the ring ever. You have many trials ahead to enter and try again - and get better each time. <B

.... and never give up on your dog

That includes continuing on even if you are unsure -- if the judge excuses you, well then you can be sure

However, and I saw this at my last trial with an inexperienced handler, if your dog is staring at and/or kind of charging towards (either in threat or in play) another dog, get control of your dog!! Do not wait for the judge to say something -- get your dog under control.

Work the waiting to be called into the ring, entrance, leash on/off, flow and transition pieces, the exit at least every few training sessions - these are where things can go south very quickly -- in any class. Pressure, wide open spaces etc etc etc These practices will not only help your dog be ring ready, they give the handler a routine to help focus on what they are there to do.

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diane0905

· #22 · 15 d ago

One thing I did not know would happen at our first trial for BN was after we had already shown, a lady came into the ring with stuffed animals in a basket. There is nothing Logan loves more than toys. That brought him off his feet just a little bit, but she was smart enough to bring the basket down to him and let him choose a toy. I also was thrown off a bit by the dog who peed in the ring in front of us, but what can you do about that? In retrospect, I suppose I could have asked them to move the figure eight from the pee spot, but I don’t know if judges take kindly to such. It was a good learning experience though. That’s how I saw any surprises that went on because because it’s easy to see how everything is not predictable.

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diane0905

· #23 · 15 d ago

We trained the day before yesterday and will again today. For our last session, I worked on heeling with Logan and getting him to trot as opposed to pacing. The suggestion was for each turn or change of pace to give a light (wrist movement light) three pull ups on the leash as we transition. That is working very well so far. At my last lesson, since I was bugging my private lesson lady about it, she asked if I could tell the difference when Logan was pacing vs. trotting. The only difference I notice is Logan seems more animated bouncing up and down beside me. I think I’m going to enlist my husband because he’s good at looking at Logan’s legs and telling me when he is pacing or trotting. Perhaps that movement from above difference I’m seeing is it.

When I do my footwork correctly and give Logan the correct body cues his right turns are becoming much tighter.

I was told to not be as exaggerated on my head and shoulder turning cues, so I’m working on that. I swear I always think of Elaine from Seinfeld dancing when I get commentary on my body movement.

I worked with Logan on his movement between exercises. Jane (trainer) suggested a treat between my middle finger and thumb while holding my index finger up above his head as we move between exercises and to get him into heel position. She said to ALWAYS have a treat for that to get him really on board about what that means. Logan has been slightly adjusting sometimes when he gets into heel position instead of landing it right from the beginning. He’ll sit slightly crooked (very slightly) and then adjust his body into proper position. She’s wanting me to try to get him out of that. I taught him to do that 😅 by cocking my head at him a little bit when he was crooked. Ooops.

We also heeled in circles both ways. I’m assuming that’s to teach him to keep his rear end in where it belongs instead of swinging it out.

Other than that, we worked on heeling in general — normal, fast, slow, halts.

Oh — on the halts she also has me if he is on lead to pull up slightly as he comes in to make sure he always sits straight. If he’s off leash I’m to use a treat above his head to make sure he halts straight.

I also tossed treats and had him come back into fronts. He’s getting straighter on those and it looks good. She suggested a hand out beside is face on whichever side his body is coming in angled to get him to straighten it out before he sits. That has really been helpful and he’s starting to come in straight mostly. I saw a light go off in his face when he figured that out and that is cool.

I will look at my notes to figure out today’s plan of action.

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #24 · 14 d ago (Edited)

Just back from judging Open & Utility at a match , no food allowed but toys & play were. It was fun and absolutely a blast to see so many friends in one place enjoying their dogs! We don't have many matches in this area really and this was a new venue normally reserved for agility, a Positive only place so even people I know train with corrections were keeping it very light & fun.

My exhibitors ranged from people I study/under with and are prepping for the the next big AKC event to newcomers into the Open & Utility classes. I had judges assisting me in setting up fair yet challenging heeling patterns (example would be the Open pattern setting up at the far side of the ring from where the leash came off; forward halt near the gating, -> forward -> left turn -> fast -> normal -> left turn and halfway down the far side of the ring and about turn -> right turn to slow -> normal -> about turn -> halt right where the Fig 8 setup was). The dogs were not expecting the quick halt at the beginning nor the about turn halfway through the gating at side opposite the entry.

One thing I loved, was everyone welcomed the challenges and the OTCh people / instructors / experts were working through issues with their new and even experienced dogs just as the inexperienced teams were.

Aedan was the test dog for the Utility patterns with an AKC judge calling - and Finch was the test dog for the Open pattern with an instructor calling; both my pattern test judges are multiple OTCh people.. They were really nicely flowing routines for the A orders, of course there was more back & forth for orders II through VI. My exhibitors choose the order they wanted and which glove. Platforms were in wide use as were things (boards, jumps bars etc) in use for both Open Cmd Disc and Utility Signals

I am sitting here typing this while eating a wonderful Chicken Caesar salad that was part of my 'pay' (I ran both Finch & Aedan - and received a lovely gift basket (have to find a receiver for the fruit & chocolate but there are nuts, a beautiful pic of a golden etc).

It was cool enough so that I worked out of the Xterra in the morning and about 1 between Utility & Open I moved from judges parking to a conveniently empty spot under a tree

The whole day was fun and a learning event to boot.

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #25 · 14 d ago

Part of the gift basket was a painting by one of the club members

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Eclipse

· #26 · 14 d ago

Congrats! Love your comment about novice dogs - important for Novice A and B competitors.

Megora said:
No more novice for Mr. Glee.

He got his CD with 4 straight Q's, no NQ's and decent enough runs to catch the eyes of some big people out there. You can tell he's a show dog, because he had the FORGE going on today. But he's my very good boy.

Off topic a little bit, but if you are in novice with your dog.... please be patient. Stress/upset goes down the leash. Saw a dog completely shut down today and it was pretty bad all around.

If dog is throwing you some challenges, you find positives. The dog is still learning - especially if they are first time in the ring ever. You have many trials ahead to enter and try again - and get better each time. <B

Eclipse

· #27 · 14 d ago

We picked up 1 Novice Jumpers leg and 1 Novice FAST leg today. Had a couple off courses in a row in Novice Standard today - I way under estimated how much extension and forward momentum the broad jump gives Mr. R.

I thought this was a very nicely designed Novice Standard course and loved the double tunnel ending.

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diane0905

· #28 · 14 d ago

Eclipse said:
We picked up 1 Novice Jumpers leg and 1 Novice FAST leg today. Had a couple off courses in a row in Novice Standard today - I way under estimated how much extension and forward momentum the broad jump gives Mr. R.

I thought this was a very nicely designed Novice Standard course and loved the double tunnel ending.

View attachment 903061

Thanks for posting the course. Logan has been taking agility the longest and I haven’t trialed him in it yet. There’s no real reason other than for a while I wanted his obedience in order more first and that was my priority. Plus, field captured our attention. He’s been skills novice ready for at least a year. We will give it a go in September.

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DevWind

· #29 · 14 d ago

Megora said:
So many INTERESTING ways to NQ.... ! 🤣 🤣 🤣

Just wait for Utility! They find even more!

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DevWind

· #30 · 14 d ago

No training this weekend. We have a lot of showing planned next weekend so we relaxed instead. Just something I do when there’s a huge weekend for me. We will just do a little bit here and there and train during classes through the week.

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #31 · 14 d ago

One issue I asked an actual licensed AKC judge about and we came to the following consensus in Utility (the exhibitor had a really nice working GSD and she wanted to know how he would be scored had this been a trial).This comes under the category of never give up on your dog and your run.

The exhibitor requested a score, she requested glove #2. As mentioned, this was a really nice working dog - bumps, fronts & finishs were the largest issues other than what happened with glove #2.

The exhibitor team did the turn & sit, no points off, No points off on her signal & cue, the dog flew directly to glove #2, retrieved the glove, turned back to the right and spotted glove #3. Headed for glove #3, dropped the correct glove and sniffed glove #3, picked glove #2 back up and came in to a crooked front. This ended up being a 5 point deduction in total - key point being the dog retrieved the correct glove and only the correct glove and other than dropping the glove there was no mouthing / playing etc of the correct glove.

Thought I would post this since I had never had this happen and I thought it was interesting to see how the process of deciding how many points of a substantial this would most likely be taken in an actual trial, plus!! the exhibitor thought it would have been an NQ rather than a substantial. She didn't let any of her NQ thoughts affect the rest of her run and I didn't check with the AKC judges until I was preparing her score sheet. Note: I am not an AKC judge, this was a non-sanctioned match and the judge I asked was showing his personal dogs, not acting in any official capacity but was extremely helpful in many many instances.

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PalouseDogs

· #32 · 14 d ago

AmberSunrise said:
May 19 2023.
I have written elsewhere that Finchie's broad jump was broken at a trial a few weeks ago and she has been pulled from trials until we get the issue resolved. Here is a video of her entire session after work and before she was fed.

Finch building drive for her broad jump using her kibble supper (around the corner) - 1st attempt was just not good enough - while at this point I am looking for attitude over precision she does need to clear that jump .. she was quickly released to her waiting food on her 2nd jump when she cleared the jump; angled but cleared. - oh she wanted that food!! Both a huge distaction and a reward. LOL

Finchie's remedial broad jump training

I have the same strategy if I'm struggling with a particular exercise: ultra-short, upbeat sessions, at least once a day, preferably two or three times a day. The only thing that bothered me a little was that you told Finch the first time, when she cut the corner, was not good enough, but I wondered how she knew what exactly wasn't good enough. She stayed on stay, went on jump, cleared the jump and came back to you. How does she know what her mistake was? Since she didn't cut the corner the second time, maybe she's figuring it out by trial and error.

I use a pad of artificial turf to define the "no-landing" zone. I wouldn't want the no-landing pad to be something that might hurt their paws and make them worried about jumping. I want it to be something that feels different than the grass.

A video of a couple of jumps with my experienced dog, Pinyon. I rarely work on the broad jump with him anymore, but when I do, I always put the no-landing pad down in case he starts "drifting". I also like to do the jump with me standing close to him to encourage him to look forward and not at me. With Pinyon, I do a mostly formal version, the way I'd do it in the ring: giving the BJ pre-cue (in my case, saying "broad jump" and doing a slight crouch and point) and speaking the judge's commands and the responses I'd give in the ring.

A video of Hawthorn, who hasn't been shown in Open yet. He is 2 years old. Sorry, this is a too-long video, but I wanted to show the sequence of increasing level of difficulty. We haven't worked on the BJ for a couple of months, so I expected he would touch the "no-landing" zone. To my surprise, he did not. Since he is still learning, I started by putting a cone on the no-landing pad and pointing to it and saying "leave-it" to remind him it's there. We did three reps with the cone, each with me moving closer and closer to him. Then, I took the cone away and did three more reps, each harder. With him, he gets lured into the setup position and rewarded for the setup to keep his attitude up and to avoid having to mix in lessons about setting up.

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #33 · 14 d ago (Edited)

PalouseDogs said:
I have the same strategy if I'm struggling with a particular exercise: ultra-short, upbeat sessions, at least once a day, preferably two or three times a day. The only thing that bothered me a little was that you told Finch the first time, when she cut the corner, was not good enough, but I wondered how she knew what exactly wasn't good enough. She stayed on stay, went on jump, cleared the jump and came back to you. How does she know what her mistake was? Since she didn't cut the corner the second time, maybe she's figuring it out by trial and error.

I use a pad of artificial turf to define the "no-landing" zone. I wouldn't want the no-landing pad to be something that might hurt their paws and make them worried about jumping. I want it to be something that feels different than the grass.

A video of a couple of jumps with my experienced dog, Pinyon. I rarely work on the broad jump with him anymore, but when I do, I always put the no-landing pad down in case he starts "drifting". I also like to do the jump with me standing close to him to encourage him to look forward and not at me. With Pinyon, I do a mostly formal version, the way I'd do it in the ring: giving the BJ pre-cue (in my case, saying "broad jump" and doing a slight crouch and point) and speaking the judge's commands and the responses I'd give in the ring.

A video of Hawthorn, who hasn't been shown in Open yet. He is 2 years old. Sorry, this is a too-long video, but I wanted to show the sequence of increasing level of difficulty. We haven't worked on the BJ for a couple of months, so I expected he would touch the "no-landing" zone. To my surprise, he did not. Since he is still learning, I started by putting a cone on the no-landing pad and pointing to it and saying "leave-it" to remind him it's there. We did three reps with the cone, each with me moving closer and closer to him. Then, I took the cone away and did three more reps, each harder. With him, he gets lured into the setup position and rewarded for the setup to keep his attitude up and to avoid having to mix in lessons about setting up.

Thanks

Finch is a smart girl but can be distracted and/or unfocused. She was very focused on that food bowl around the corner and by not rewarding her, she slowed down a bit and thought about what she was doing

I would not do that 'correction' on a dog that I felt was trying and just wrong, but I felt Finch was just phoning that effort in. The 2nd jump, had she also had issues would have resulted in a 3rd attempt having me call her over or running to meet her in her landing spot, adding a guide for her or other training aid to help her be correct and get that reward.

Since I rarely repeat an exercise that meets my current criteria, my dogs learn an exact repeat means try something different. And I don't think Finch would ever jump a broad jump again if she was put off by anything she landed on, she is kind of determined about things like that...her daughter Wren though? I will keep your don't touch pad in mind for her

thanks

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #34 · 13 d ago (Edited)

Yay!! I get to pick Wren up this upcoming weekend

She was bred to Ben ( ** MH68 WCX CDX VER CCA RA CGC OS HTHF Can. CDX), so I will limit jumping etc until we know if the breeding took. Not much other than light training for the next few weeks after I pick her up, and then If the breeding did take she is out of heavy training for the next 4 months or so ... she will be kept active with hikes and non impact training (oops guess I better get in weave training soonest) but I personally don't like doing jump work etc on pregnant girls. Plus after several weeks we do let then girls put on some weight to support growing pup pup needs.

Repro vet disagreed with my personal vet (I did too!) and says she is NOT heavy, just solidly built LOL I think I mentioned she is on the larger side so our stud choices were somewhat limited - her lines tend to be on the petite side (girls) l but she & her sisters all have more solid builds from the sire and probably a bit of a throwback to Towhee's sire aptly named Tank (Phoebe -> Chickadee -> Towhee -> Finch -> Wren line)

I think tonight will be limited to assembling a few jumps with glue etc and loading the pieces in my vehicles so they can be quickly unloaded and setup on round abouts.---- ETA: and then I read the PVC cement directions and decided it will need to wait until I have more free time; possibly Friday. Each connection needs to be held for 1 minute, allow 5 min for handling strength (what does that even mean?), 60 min before 'pressure testing' and a full 24 - 72 hours to fully cure. I have Friday off except for a DR appt and then a girl's night out so that gives me a window of time. The thought is to glue the base & ends so I can just slip the uprights in as needed and it will be easier to transport and setup for use.

I also have 2 Zoom style webinars (1 dog related, 1 fitness challenge related) on the to-do list for tonight. ETA: Done

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DevWind

· #35 · 13 d ago

We had rally classes tonight. Winx is in the advanced level. She did fairly good considering she hasn’t trained for so long. Pilot is in Master and had a great night! Very bouncy and happy to work! I plan to take him to work with me tomorrow and go to the training club after for a little bit since my plans changed a little.

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Megora

· #36 · 13 d ago

No jump training today (Glee could use some extra practice with broad jump, but lawn got treated today so keeping them off), but did signals and drops with both dogs in our driveway up by the house.

No anticipating from Jovi on anything. 🤦‍♀️ I kinda looked at invisible judge to the side of him for a couple seconds and then did my signal. Am trying to figure out why he was so anticipate-y at the trials this past weekend - but kinda thinking bad luck and moving on. Have already entered another double trial day in 2-3 weeks. Plan to just take Jovi and make sure I bring water + fan to keep him cool (was hoping to avoid summer trials and skip the rest of the summer until fall).

Regarding training the signals and dealing with a possible anticipation problem.... am thinking about a judge who was drilling friends of mine at the trial to jump into Open B (they both finished their CDX's a couple weeks ago, but were working on building experience with their dogs still in Open A). The judge got after both ladies and told them to go into open B. I'm struggling trying to remember the phrase exactly, but basically it's to keep them from pattern training, including signals.

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rhondas

· #37 · 13 d ago

Megora said:
No jump training today (Glee could use some extra practice with broad jump, but lawn got treated today so keeping them off), but did signals and drops with both dogs in our driveway up by the house.

No anticipating from Jovi on anything. 🤦‍♀️ I kinda looked at invisible judge to the side of him for a couple seconds and then did my signal. Am trying to figure out why he was so anticipate-y at the trials this past weekend - but kinda thinking bad luck and moving on. Have already entered another double trial day in 2-3 weeks. Plan to just take Jovi and make sure I bring water + fan to keep him cool (was hoping to avoid summer trials and skip the rest of the summer until fall).

Regarding training the signals and dealing with a possible anticipation problem.... am thinking about a judge who was drilling friends of mine at the trial to jump into Open B (they both finished their CDX's a couple weeks ago, but were working on building experience with their dogs still in Open A). The judge got after both ladies and told them to go into open B. I'm struggling trying to remember the phrase exactly, but basically it's to keep them from pattern training, including signals.

No one should ever be training Open A order or even do run throughs in Open A order (not saying that you are) - my opinion. Also people normally do not train all elements the same day anyway. There really is no transition required from Open A to Open B unless people have not trained the 4 possible CD options from day one and if they didn't it's a mistake in my opinion. I do not show my dogs in Open after they title until after Utility and there has been no issue going right into B even with a gap in showing. Of course we kept up Open training throughout the gap. But I know people who recommend to keep showing in Open until the dog is ready for Utility in order to get more ring experience.

My advice is to train all 4 CD options from day one. Also people normally do not train all elements the same day anyway.

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Megora

· #38 · 13 d ago (Edited)

rhondas said:
My advice is to train all 4 CD options from day one.

Small confession..... hiding face in paper bag I've not taught stand from greater distance than right in front of me to my 2 current boys.

I am working on it!

But it's been back burner since my goals have really been get that CDX and then UD on Jovi. So along those lines, have been working on not using verbals (if I can avoid doing so) on the command discrimination in open because didn't want to use something I can't use with utility signals. So on, so on.

Open B - have given it thought since I sat next to a lady who accomplished her tenth UDX title + I forget how many OTCH titles she had gotten with her lovely sheltie. I'd like to do it, but with a golden you never know (her sheltie is 10 years old which blessed if a goldens gets there + is still in great shape). So I'm focusing on first steps first, and we will continue training as we go.

The ladies who got scolded for continuing in Open A mentioned that they'd like to build experience with their dogs without competing against the mondo otch people. 🥴 But my impression was they have very limited time (2 months) before they have to bump up into B anyway.

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DevWind

· #39 · 13 d ago

rhondas said:
No one should ever be training Open A order or even do run throughs in Open A order (not saying that you are) - my opinion. Also people normally do not train all elements the same day anyway. There really is no transition required from Open A to Open B unless people have not trained the 4 possible CD options from day one and if they didn't it's a mistake in my opinion. I do not show my dogs in Open after they title until after Utility and there has been no issue going right into B even with a gap in showing. Of course we kept up Open training throughout the gap. But I know people who recommend to keep showing in Open until the dog is ready for Utility in order to get more ring experience.

My advice is to train all 4 CD options from day one. Also people normally do not train all elements the same day anyway.

You don’t know what you don’t know though.Since Pilot is my first trained at utility level, I trained only openA. It was pretty easy to teach the otherCD patterns so not a big deal. I can never remember the order so no pattern training for us. Lol! We were training everything at the same time but I’ve been going back and raising my standards. So we’ve been working one or two things in a session.

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AmberSunrise

Discussion Starter · #40 · 13 d ago

DevWind said:
You don’t know what you don’t know though.Since Pilot is my first trained at utility level, I trained only openA. It was pretty easy to teach the otherCD patterns so not a big deal. I can never remember the order so no pattern training for us. Lol! We were training everything at the same time but I’ve been going back and raising my standards. So we’ve been working one or two things in a session.

Exactly

The Cmd Disc position changes, should you choose to teach all variations, can be taught in other contexts such as conditioning exercises.

One thing I will suggest, if you plan to show in Open B, BJ first order should definitely be practiced.

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