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Discussion Starter #1
I am starting this thread because of a comment in another thread about how well trained dogs fail WC because they are used to marking 200-300 yard marks.

I would dare say that is not a well trained dog.

A well trained dog picks birds at 25 yards as well as 300 yards. Have trained with both hunt test and field trial people. And all those dogs can do both long and short marks. The "newer" people were amazed at this one field trial person who had his AFC dog perform on a walk up triple, out of order flyer with a blind under the arch of the flyer and one past an old fall better than any of the MH level training dogs. His dogs also aced the FT set up.

On the short marks my only fear is breaking. You do not have that issue in a WC because you can hold your dog. MH is a different story (no such thing as a controlled break). I thought I had to wear depends in an MH test where all three marks were under 50 yards with the first bird thrown into the dog at less than 30 yards. As a "weekend warrior" as far as training I make sure to balance both short and long marks.
 

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Jay S.
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It is unfortunate that others have failed a WC test with a dog that can mark to double that distance. Sometimes our dogs remind us that they are just dogs.

Try UKC finished if you want a bit more excitement. You will have a real gun and poppers at the line.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It is unfortunate that others have failed a WC test with a dog that can mark to double that distance. Sometimes our dogs remind us that they are just dogs.

Try UKC finished if you want a bit more excitement. You will have a real gun and poppers at the line.
Funny you say that, I just had the privilege to watch a video of Belle's brother working on it. Quite different and interesting.

We have done couple pheasant shoots this winter and we were quite at the line where the shooters were. That did not seem to phase her. It was a very good opportunity to work on those breaking birds.
 

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Yes, I probably should have said "an apparently well trained dog".
Dogs tend to reveal holes in their training at inopportune times!
 

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Yes, I probably should have said "an apparently well trained dog".
Dogs tend to reveal holes in their training at inopportune times!
You see that mostly with young dogs. Unfortunately there is this rush nowadays to get titles sooner and sooner before they get more advanced in the training.
 

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the party's crashing us
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I think stories of "field trial trained dogs failing a WC because they overrun marks" are highly exaggerated. Any dog can over-run a mark for a variety of reasons. Most FT-only trained dogs regularly pick up marks that are way less than what we would consider a "Field trial mark." That 50 yard flyer sets up a very challenging 400 yard punch bird but it's still the same 50 yard flyer you'd see in a WCX. On the flip side MANY hunt test only trainers have it in their heads that they don't need to train over 100 or 150 yards because their dog will never see over that in a test....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think stories of "field trial trained dogs failing a WC because they overrun marks" are highly exaggerated. Any dog can over-run a mark for a variety of reasons. Most FT-only trained dogs regularly pick up marks that are way less than what we would consider a "Field trial mark." That 50 yard flyer sets up a very challenging 400 yard punch bird but it's still the same 50 yard flyer you'd see in a WCX. On the flip side MANY hunt test only trainers have it in their heads that they don't need to train over 100 or 150 yards because their dog will never see over that in a test....
I have seen more and more hunt test clubs incorporating Qs into their tests. That gives me hope that you will see less and less hunt test only trainers think that way. After all, the rule of thumb says always train at the level above the one you enter. Q is the one above MH and of course you will see marks over 100 to 150 yards.
 

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It's all about balance, training on long - middle - short marks is critical to success. When I am running walking singles, I like to start short, then go middle distance, then go long, then back to middle, and end on short.
As for short marks being set up to be difficult, I'll never forget what an old field trialer said at an Open, which was proving to be difficult for the dogs, which had a long stand-out memory bird shot first, then a short retired, and a long flyer shot last, "Not even Rin Tin Tin can go short after going long twice!"
(They have to see it in training.)
 

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FT Goldens It's funny you mentioned that set-up. I ran it last week as singles of course with a retired in the middle. There was a open I ran in the late 90's at Blue Ridge where the set-up was as you mentioned: Stand out long bird on left prob 300 yrds plus, short retired middle thrown right about 100 yrds out and flyer on the right a little shorter than the left bird. Over half the field had to handle on the short retired in the middle. Crazy. I think some set-ups you can practice and practice but having to go short after two long marks and guns still standing out when one is a flyer station is very tough. Hope the pups are doing well!
 
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