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First Golden
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone. I finally found a breeder that I really like and hope it will turn into a lifetime friendship. We are waiting to see if her breeding took and if so, I will be on her waiting list. As you could relate, I am quite nervous. If it doesn't take, it might be a while before she tries again and I'd like to have a contingency plan.

My 9 year old competed in Obedience, got her CGC and was certified through Delta Society (Now Pet Partners). I am looking for a puppy that would be suitable for O/R, Therapy and a candidate for the CCA. If she doesn't end up titling, she would be a loved companion that partners with me in my Therapy work. If she likes O/R and can get her CCA, when I would be ready for another pup, I would get her clearances and would like to breed her.

It is overwhelmingly difficult to find a breeder that would allow full registration to a performance home. Even with the CCA and clearances.

How does a buyer convey the sincerity of the future plans for the pup? Most breeders that I've made contact with only offer Limited Registration. If they offer Full Registration, they don't have performance lines and don't have a CCA of their own breeding stock. :banghead:
 

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What you need to do is find somebody that is willing to co-own and they would have the final say on her you breed with.
 

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Some breeders might initially sell on a limited registration and then change it to full once titles and clearances are obtained.
 

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When you refer to yourself as a performance home, you're talking titles higher than the CGC which is just a certificate right? I think your best bet is have the discussion & either co-own w/ the breeder or purchase on limited w/ the opportunity to change once specific titles are earned, complete clearances and make sure it's specified in your contract. Titles and clearances alone don't mean a dog should be bred.
 

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Two thoughts...

1) You may need to keep looking. There are breeders who will sell to performance homes on full registration. You may have to search the field breeders rather than the show breeders, however.

2) You may have to buy on LR this time with an agreement that it can be changed to full after X, Y, and Z are completed. A CGC is, IMO, not a title. It means absolutely nothing to me (please note, I've had four dogs with CGCs, and the certificate is pretty but means nothing in terms of dog or handler abilities). When I talk about changing LR to FR for a puppy buyer, the CGC, BN, and all Rally levels do not count as titles in my book. After you have competed and titled at higher levels you will likely find breeders more willing to sell on FR.
 

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Unless I am selling a puppy to someone I know personally, or know via reputation, all of my puppies go limited registration, with language in my puppy agreement that by satisfying the requirements of completed (and passing) clearances, the understanding that eye exams will be done and recorded online for the life of the dog, and minimum title requirements, I will agree to change it to full registration. Regardless of the possible negative repurcussions to my reputation, I owe it to the owner of the stud dog to ensure that their stud dog's name doesn't end up on questionable pedigrees two generations from now.
 

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It is very hard to convince a breeder that you don't know that you will ONLY breed if and when the pup has passed their clearances and has a title of some sort. They don't know you from Adam so why should they trust you? They get a lot of inquires from people who ask this question and immediately go away when they don't get the answer they are looking for.

That being said, there are a number of good breeders who will place a puppy with limited registration with the understanding that after you have completed the clearances and obtained that title they will revoke the limited status. The choice of title can be the breeders or it could be up to you. It is up to you to trust them to follow thru on their word and their contract when the time comes.

That was how I got into this game - I trusted my breeder to revoke the limited after I had followed thru on my end of the bargain. I did not have to pay extra to get this but I did spend a lot on training, competitions, and equipment. Even after getting it revoked it was several more years before I bred my first litter.

My suggestion would be to find a litter that you like and talk to the breeder. In the course of the conversation about the strengths and weaknesses of that breeding you can ask what are the requirements to have the limited revoked? If they say there is nothing you can do to revoke the limited you can decide if you want the puppy or move on. Do not in any circumstance make this the first question you ask!!!!!

As for the co own suggestion, I am against that idea in almost all situations. Co ownership between people who have been friends for decades can lead to problems. Trying it with virtual strangers is just asking for trouble. I only co own with my husband as I know he and I are on the same page.
 

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With Her 3 Goldens
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181 Posts
Our oldest boy was sold to us on limited registration (he was our first dog EVER - clearly no one was going to give us full registration right off the bat, and at the time, we had no intention of doing anything with him so we didn't care), but after titling him in multiple venues and completing his clearances, the breeders changed the registration to full. Honestly, I see that type of wording/arrangement pretty often with performance breeders. Perhaps, if you really like the breeder you have selected, you can discuss that as an option with her?
 

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Tito was sold to me on a limited registration as well. The breeder lifted it when she saw how he turned out, and knew I planned to show him in the AKC breed ring, where dogs must be on a full registration. We had only a verbal agreement about conditions for lifting the limited, but everything worked out great.
 

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This. I don't want my boy to end up as the grandsire of doodles.

Unless I am selling a puppy to someone I know personally, or know via reputation, all of my puppies go limited registration, with language in my puppy agreement that by satisfying the requirements of completed (and passing) clearances, the understanding that eye exams will be done and recorded online for the life of the dog, and minimum title requirements, I will agree to change it to full registration. Regardless of the possible negative repurcussions to my reputation, I owe it to the owner of the stud dog to ensure that their stud dog's name doesn't end up on questionable pedigrees two generations from now.
 

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First Golden
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Discussion Starter #12
I hadn't considered a puppy for 10 years. My 9 year old OES was adopted as a show puppy with full registration. The breeder allowed me to work on the CD before showing her to allow time for her to be in full coat. I couldn't have socialized her any more around town. She also had class experience as a young puppy when she received her CGC and class experience working on her Rally training. She received exposure to children and elderly through her therapy work. As we got closer to earning her CD, her herding instincts really kicked in. Unexpectantly these instincts in time were red flags. If a child ran, she would herd and nip. On three occassions she had caused the child to cry. (To this day, I remain vigilant around children.) Temperament is a priority for me. The breeder and I decided to spay her.

Fast forward 9 years. After losing my 14 year old OES and left with a 9 year old, it was time for a puppy. I LOVED obedience. (I drove two hours one way, once a week, for classes with my obedience club.) My OES's coat was not conducive to our heat and given the fact that they don't like water, the search for a different breed began. I looked into Standard poodles, for many reasons, but primarily because I thought they would do well in Obedience and they like the water. It soon became apparent the alarming trend for poodle breeders to spay/neuter at SEVEN weeks. They even have a term "pediatric" spay/neutering. I thought, boy things have really changed since I last looked for a puppy. After reading many articles based on extensive research I was not comfortable with such a practice. My Vet was not comfortable with "Pediatric" spay/neutering. I could have continued to look for different breeders, but was soured by the experience. I decided to look into another breed, but would have to find one who's breeder would allow the puppy to stay intact at least through adolescence. With limited research into the Goldens all I found were websites that said "sold with Limited registration on a spay/neuter contract." I could have emailed/called for clarification on the timeframe, but by then I had had time, beyond the puppy rush, to think about my long term goals.

I decided that if the puppy showed interest in Obedience and her temperament was true to the Golden breed, I would like the option to delay spaying to see what our options would be. If she earned her CD, CCA, enjoyed Therapy work, and had her clearances, I would like the option of someday having a puppy of her own.

Limited to Full sounds perfect. It would give me a chance to evaluate her and time to prove my intentions to the breeder. As I mentioned in the beginning of the post, just bc I have Full registration doesn't mean I'd breed her. It could be a joint decision between myself and the breeder IF she's intact.

I will know Friday if the breeder's bitch is pregnant. If not, I have found another breeder who's dogs have amazing pedigrees that will allow Limited to Full. She has an amazing show record and remains humble. Given her record, I didn't really think she'd even answer my email. Which has been the case with many breeders. Despite the fact that I may get another dog she has taken the time to mentor me. She has restored my faith in the "puppy search process" and has been an incredible introduction to the Golden "world".

Thank you all for responding. The waiting game begins. In the meantime, I look forward to participating in this forum.
 
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